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Author Topic: Back and to the right?  (Read 11172 times)

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Back and to the right?
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2020, 09:55:35 PM »
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   Personally, I believe the minute Forward head movement was the result of Jackie pulling on his arm and possibly JFK's coughing or gagging. That EXPLOSION would cause Great head movement. I think the stuff regarding the "back brace" is overplayed when considering restricting Forward movement of his body. It would have restricted JFK's side-to-side movement but not nill forward. His backward motion was already restricted by the Limo back seat back rest. You've seen the pics of that so-called "back brace". It's basically an ACE Bandage wrapped tightly around him. It's hardly what I consider a "Brace".

"I think the stuff regarding the "back brace" is overplayed when considering restricting Forward movement of his body"

Would have held him erect, IMO.


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Re: Back and to the right?
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2020, 09:55:35 PM »


Online Royell Storing

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Re: Back and to the right?
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2020, 10:09:25 PM »
"I think the stuff regarding the "back brace" is overplayed when considering restricting Forward movement of his body"

Would have held him erect, IMO.



 Obviously, that B/W pic Upper Left is Not what we see Below. You notice the placard Below says "BANDAGES & BELT".

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Back and to the right?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2020, 10:52:47 PM »
From the thread: What if James Files shot JFK, like he said?

You don't have to buy into Files being the grassy knoll shooter, but the "back and to the left" part is pertinent to this thread.


Quote from: Jerry Freeman on March 11, 2020, 11:38:43 PM
Mike Orr actually stated that a shot to the back of the head happened first....And I agree. If the autopsy photos are legit [showing a hole just a bit left of center] and the Zapruder image seems to show it forward/back in an blink.

If the autopsy photo was real then it would show a fist-sized gaping hole in the right occipital region of JFK's head. But we don't see that. Instead it shows what they want you to see, which is 1 shot from behind and no hole in the back of his head. I have no idea how they faked the photos, but it was easy enough to do back then. And before they were faking photos they were performing post-mortem surgery.



There may have been a simultaneous shot from behind but I doubt that it struck JFK's head without pushing it forward significantly, unless its forward momentum was counteracted by a shot from the front. However, IMO, there was too much backward motion for that to be the case.



I count 2 near simultaneous shots at appox. Z-312, the first one from the direction of the overpass that entered the right side of JFK's hairline and blew a hole out of the back of his head. This sent his head violently backward.



Files recalls that his shot from the knoll happened a split second after the frontal shot and he claimed to have used a Fireball hand-rifle which shot frangible bullets. His shot caused the right temple to blowout when the bullet exploded in JFK's head.



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Consensus was that the driver did hit the brakes...but I would have too if I thought I was driving into an ambush.

No you wouldn't. At least 2 shots had been fired and you knew you were already under attack. Nobody in their right mind would slow the limo to a near stop, turn to look back at JFK and watch him get his head blown off and only then decide to skedaddle outta Dodge. The Turkey Shoot Point was precisely where Greer slowed the limo down to. It was designed to be orthogonal to Files' position at the knoll. There was even a painted marking on the curb across Elm at the exact TSP, which Greer coincidentally nearly stopped at. Greer must have skimmed over the SS manual re what to do when the POTUS is under attack.

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I also think Umbrella Man and the "Cuban" next to him were signal guys and would like to what Files said about them [if anything]...Not that I completely believe Files either.

Umbrella man and Co. were definitely signalling that JFK was still alive and the Turkey Shoot was on. And sure Files could be BSing, but he seems to know some interesting details about the shooting. Maybe he's stolen the real shooter's story, who knows? But he is by far the best candidate for the knoll shooter, if you believe there was one.

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Re: Back and to the right?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2020, 10:52:47 PM »


Offline Gerry Down

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Re: Back and to the right?
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2020, 11:25:09 PM »

Who is JFK talking to in that photo. He makes JFK look like a kid so short in comparison to him.

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Back and to the right?
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2020, 12:55:19 AM »

  You can Clearly see Jackie PULLING DOWN on JFK's Arm/Wrist. This accounts for the JFK Forward Head Dip.

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Re: Back and to the right?
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2020, 12:55:19 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Back and to the right?
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2020, 12:09:52 AM »

So what speed was the limo going at the head shot, perhaps 5 miles an hour? Walking speed is 3.1 miles an hour.

Is that enough speed to account for the head snap due to the momentum of the car going forward and JFKs limp head falling backwards?

Hello  Gerry

The limousine was going 8 mph at z312. The limousine steadily advances 8 inches with each frame of the Zapruder film from z305 through z345. That translates to a steady 8 mph, with very little acceleration.

The pretty steady speed of the limousine means that it provides a good inertial frame of reference. The effects of physics on the head and body of JFK are the same as if the limousine was stopped, except it effectively subtracts 8 mph from the speed of the bullet, which has minimal effect. Don’t try to figure out the effect of the limousine moving at a steady speed on JFK’s head because the effects are about nonexistent.


If a bullet caused JFK’s head to stop, relative to the ground, while the limousine continued moving forward, his head would be off the back of the limousine in about a third of a second.

Offline Gerry Down

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Re: Back and to the right?
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2020, 12:15:25 AM »
If a bullet caused JFK’s head to stop, relative to the ground, while the limousine continued moving forward, his head would be off the back of the limousine in about a third of a second.

But isn't that what we see in the Zapruder film, a violent head snap backwards?

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Re: Back and to the right?
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2020, 12:15:25 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Back and to the right?
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2020, 12:29:44 AM »

If, as some people contend, there was a large hole on the right rear portion of JFKs head and a corresponding small entrance hole at the hairline area above the right eye (presumably this would require a shot from some area in the vicinity of the triple overpass in front of the limousine), then shouldn't JFKs head have snapped back and to the right rather than to back and to the left as we see in the Zapruder film?

Yes Gerry, you have made a good point. Basically, an argument that can be used against a Pro LN scenario cannot be used against a Pro CT scenario. In that case, it is to be dropped like a red hot stove.

A Pro CT argument is that a body will always move away from the gun. This is a false argument. The muscles of the victim may move the body, even in the case of a bullet through the brain, as can be shown by film of goats being shot through the brain. But cannot be shown by film of people being shot through the brain because these experiments are not allowed.

So, a Pro CT argument is that “Back and to the Left” movement of JFK’s head (I think it’s more of a Backward movement, with a falling to the left side) proves there was not shot from Oswald’s position then, but instead a shot from the right front.

But a back of the right part of the head exit wound indicates a shooter to the front and left. But the principle of “a victim is always driven away from the shooter” and the claim “JFK head was driven back and to the left” would preclude such a shooter. The fallacy in your thinking, from a CT point of view, is using arguments that can be used to discard a Pro-LN scenario to discard a Pro-CT scenario. That is a clear misuse of these techniques.

Martin Weidmann pretended to not understand what you were driving at so he danced around your question.