Back and to the right?

[Gerry Down]

Who is JFK talking to in that photo. He makes JFK look like a kid so short in comparison to him.

[Royell Storing]

  You can Clearly see Jackie PULLING DOWN on JFK's Arm/Wrist. This accounts for the JFK Forward Head Dip.

[Joe Elliott]

So what speed was the limo going at the head shot, perhaps 5 miles an hour? Walking speed is 3.1 miles an hour.

Is that enough speed to account for the head snap due to the momentum of the car going forward and JFKs limp head falling backwards?

Hello  Gerry

The limousine was going 8 mph at z312. The limousine steadily advances 8 inches with each frame of the Zapruder film from z305 through z345. That translates to a steady 8 mph, with very little acceleration.

The pretty steady speed of the limousine means that it provides a good inertial frame of reference. The effects of physics on the head and body of JFK are the same as if the limousine was stopped, except it effectively subtracts 8 mph from the speed of the bullet, which has minimal effect. Don’t try to figure out the effect of the limousine moving at a steady speed on JFK’s head because the effects are about nonexistent.


If a bullet caused JFK’s head to stop, relative to the ground, while the limousine continued moving forward, his head would be off the back of the limousine in about a third of a second.

[Gerry Down]

If a bullet caused JFK’s head to stop, relative to the ground, while the limousine continued moving forward, his head would be off the back of the limousine in about a third of a second.

But isn't that what we see in the Zapruder film, a violent head snap backwards?

[Joe Elliott]

If, as some people contend, there was a large hole on the right rear portion of JFKs head and a corresponding small entrance hole at the hairline area above the right eye (presumably this would require a shot from some area in the vicinity of the triple overpass in front of the limousine), then shouldn't JFKs head have snapped back and to the right rather than to back and to the left as we see in the Zapruder film?

Yes Gerry, you have made a good point. Basically, an argument that can be used against a Pro LN scenario cannot be used against a Pro CT scenario. In that case, it is to be dropped like a red hot stove.

A Pro CT argument is that a body will always move away from the gun. This is a false argument. The muscles of the victim may move the body, even in the case of a bullet through the brain, as can be shown by film of goats being shot through the brain. But cannot be shown by film of people being shot through the brain because these experiments are not allowed.

So, a Pro CT argument is that “Back and to the Left” movement of JFK’s head (I think it’s more of a Backward movement, with a falling to the left side) proves there was not shot from Oswald’s position then, but instead a shot from the right front.

But a back of the right part of the head exit wound indicates a shooter to the front and left. But the principle of “a victim is always driven away from the shooter” and the claim “JFK head was driven back and to the left” would preclude such a shooter. The fallacy in your thinking, from a CT point of view, is using arguments that can be used to discard a Pro-LN scenario to discard a Pro-CT scenario. That is a clear misuse of these techniques.

Martin Weidmann pretended to not understand what you were driving at so he danced around your question.

[Joe Elliott]

But isn't that what we see in the Zapruder film, a violent head snap backwards?

No. That is not what we see. This is a falsehood that has become established ‘FACT’ by repeated claims, repeated lies, that JFK’s head was driven backwards with great violence. Such is the power of the repetitive lie. Yes, there was great violence, in the explosion of the head. But not in its movement.

Physics graduate student William Hoffman did the best study of the movement of JFK’s head back in the 1960’s. This study is found in Josiah Thompson’s “Six Seconds in Dallas” (it was more like 8.8 seconds).

Let’s define JFK’s head position at z312 to be ‘0’. A positive number indicates a more forward position.

Z312    position     0.0
                                            Moves forward 2.3 inches, average speed, 2.4 mph forward
Z313   position + 2.3
                                            Moves backward 0.6 inches, average speed, 0.6 mph backward
Z314   position + 1.7
                                            Moves backward 0.9 inches, average speed, 0.9 mph backward
Z315   position + 0.8
                                            Moves backward 1.2 inches, average speed, 1.2 mph backward
Z316   position - 0.4
                                            Moves backward 1.4 inches, average speed, 1.5 mph backward
Z317   position - 1.8
                                            Moves backward 1.8 inches, average speed, 1.9 mph backward
Z318   position - 3.6
                                            Moves backward 1.3 inches, average speed, 1.4 mph backward
Z319   position - 4.9

Even a casual look at the Zapruder frames 313 through 319 will confirm that JFK’s head only moves backwards about 7.2 inches, with an average speed of 1.2 mph.

By a curious coincidence, with the frame rate of 18.3 frames per second, a movement of “x” inches indicates an average speed of roughly “x” mph.

William Hoffman pointed out that first the head moved backwards, then the torso started moving backwards a little later.

Let me break in hear and explain what a neurological spasm is. It is a spurious signal that travels down the spinal column. It first effects the neck muscles, then the torso muscles, and continues down the body. It activates all the muscles of the body momentarily. Since the back muscles are stronger than the front muscles, it would tend to move the head and torso backwards, first the head, then the torso.

So, what was the most “violent” motion? The fastest motion, and not that violent, is 2.4 mph, when JF’s head moves FOREWARD, as if hit from behind. From experiments with goats being shot through the brain, body movement will start in 40 milliseconds, which will be starting in the very next frame. If 2.4 mph is violent motion than I tend to walk at a violent speed.

Thereafter, the head starts to move backwards, much more gradually, not violently. First at 0.6 mph backward, then 0.9 mph, then 1.2 mph, when the head finally reaches it’s z312 position.

Then 1.5 mph, 1.9 mph and 1.4 mph, when the head and body is slowed by the seat.

This is consistent of a series of bullets striking from the front, one bullet with each frame. Which by coincidence struck immediately after the shot from the back, perfectly mimicking a neurological spasm.

Or it is simply a neurological spasm, where all muscles are momentarily activated by a spurious signal. The signal starts at the top of the spinal column. It first reaches the neck muscles, which is why only the head is first affected. A little later it reaches the torso, which is why the torso did not start to move immediately, only the head. This explains which the acceleration is gradual and not all at once, as would happen with a bullet from behind.

[Gerry Down]

This is consistent of a series of bullets striking from the front, one bullet with each frame. Which by coincidence struck immediately after the shot from the back, perfectly mimicking a neurological spasm.

Or it is simply a neurological spasm, where all muscles are momentarily activated by a spurious signal. The signal starts at the top of the spinal column. It first reaches the neck muscles, which is why only the head is first affected. A little later it reaches the torso, which is why the torso did not start to move immediately, only the head. This explains which the acceleration is gradual and not all at once, as would happen with a bullet from behind.

Are you saying that you believe JFK was shot from the front?