Shells, rifle, SN... Who?

[Walt Cakebread]

Thanks Gary!

Sayer wrote...."Mr Weitzman described the rifle which was found as a 7.65 caliber mauser, bolt action rifle, which loads from a five shot clip which is located on the underside of the receiver forward of the trigger guard."

Then my proof is Weitzman's sworn affidavit that said the same thing. But he was mistaken, right?

Walt, the reason Sayers gave Weitzman a Mauser to describe was for plausible deniability. If Sayers knew that Weitzman had seen a Mauser then he needed to show him one that he could have been mistaken about. What Weitzman ultimately did was recant his story and claim he thought the Mauser he was shown came from the 6th floor. This is all fine and dandy ONLY if this happened on the afternoon/eve of the 22nd and before Weitzman's sworn affidavit. The DPD would only set him up like that if they knew Weitzman had prev read 7.65 Mauser off the barrel and assumed he would state that on his affidavit. What other explanation can you come up with why Weitzman was shown the Mauser and asked to describe it? Plausible deniability, of course.  It's like having an outsider whack Oswald instead of killing him at the theater. They were constantly having to clean up their messes along the way.

Lastly, how sure are you that no token shots came from the 6th floor? If you think it's possible, and you know the Carcano wasn't used, then what rifle would they have used instead? A similar rifle? A rifle that wouldn't jam? Where would they have ditched that rifle? Would they have put it on the roof? Is it possible that someone saw it before it left the 6th floor? And why am I even typing the word "Mauser", if it wasn't used as a surrogate for the Carcano? You are a CT aren't you? Assume this was a conspiracy and start thinking like a conspirator. What is the significance of the Mauser, which you acknowledge existed at the time?

What is the significance of the Mauser, which you acknowledge existed at the time?

THAT is the question........ I'm absolutely certain that the rifle Weitzman and Boone discovered was a model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano and it was laying on the floor about 5 feet from the east wall and 15 feet 4 inches from the north wall.  Weitzman was asked to examine a mauser later that afternoon for FBI agent A1bert Sayers.    Or Sayers simply took the info from the affidavits and wove a story around that information.....   It is a fact that some FBI agents twisted the witnesses reports.    Whatever happened...... the photos clearly show that the rifle that Weitzman and Boone discovered was a carcano.

As far as I know Weitzman was never asked to read Sayer's report and comment on the accuracy.....   Many of the witnesses said that they read the FBI reports about what they had witnessed and found the FBI had totally twisted their account.

[Walt Cakebread]

Weitzman was interveiwed by a special agent from the FBI and he descrided what they, (he and Boone), found.
A 7.65 Mauser.

Weitzman was interveiwed by a special agent from the FBI and he descrided what they, (he and Boone), found.
A 7.65 Mauser.

he described what he and Boone had found.....This is where the rubber meets the road.....Tom Alyea's film definitely shows Lt Day picking up a carcano FROM THE FLOOR and holding it up to Captain Fritz.... then another clip shows Day and Fritz examining the carcano ....and then more footage shows Lt Day dusting the carcano for finger prints.     THIS obviously is the rifle that Weitzman and Boone discovered LYING ON THE FLOOR at the bottom of a cavern of boxes of books.

However FBI agent A1bert Sayers said in a report that Seymour Weitzman described a 7.65 mauser for him.....  That could not have happened in the TSBD at around 2:00pm that day because Sayers wasn't in the TSBD at that time....( he was probably traveling between Houston and Dallas at that time)   Weitzman said that he was called to the police department later that afternoon and was interviewed by Sayers at that time.     

Sayers said that Weitzman described a 7.65 mauser which had a thick brownish black bandolier type sling on it... and the rear of the bolt was badly worn.

The carcano has a BLACK, light duty, SENTRY type sling ....and there is no sign of wear on the rear of the bolt..... Clearly the mauser is NOT the rifle that Weitzman and Boone discovered beneath the boxes of books..... 

[Walt Cakebread]

They wrote down 7.65 Mauser.

Deputy Boone wrote:.... "In the NW corner of the building, approximately three (3) feet from the east wall of the stairwell, behind a row of cases of books, I saw the rifle."

I wanted to point out that Boone originally said nothing about the rifle being jammed between boxes of books .....

[Bill Chapman]

Weitzman WC Testimony

Mr. Ball - I understand that. Now, in your statement to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, you gave a description of the rifle, how it looked.
Mr. WEITZMAN - I said it was a Mauser-type action, didn't I?
Mr. BALL - Mauser bolt action.
Mr. WEITZMAN - And at the time I looked at it, I believe I said it was 2.5 scope on it and I believe I said it was a Weaver but it wasn't; it turned out to be anything but a Weaver, but that was at a glance.
(...)
Mr. WEITZMAN - I believe it was a 2.5 Weaver at the time I looked at it. I didn't look that close at it; it just looked like a 2.5 but it turned out to be a Japanese scope, I believe.

---------------------------------------------------------

Let's see where Weitzman actually read on the rifle that it was a Mauser. Or a Carcano, for that matter. Seems to me that glances are enough proof for some people

[Walt Cakebread]

Weizmann WC Testimony

I understand that. Now, in your statement to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, you gave a description of the rifle, how it looked.
Mr. WEITZMAN - I said it was a Mauser-type action, didn't I?
Mr. BALL - Mauser bolt action.
Mr. WEITZMAN - And at the time I looked at it, I believe I said it was 2.5 scope on it and I believe I said it was a Weaver but it wasn't; it turned out to be anything but a Weaver, but that was at a glance.

(...)

Mr. WEITZMAN - I believe it was a 2.5 Weaver at the time I looked at it. I didn't look that close at it; it just looked like a 2.5 but it turned out to be a Japanese scope, I believe.

Let's see where Weitzmann actually read on the rifle that it was a Mauser. Or a Carcano.

Seems to me that glancing at things seems enough proof for some folks
No bias there, huh..

Yes.....When the rifle was picked up Weitzman and Boone only had a glance at it ....And at a glance a carcano could be mistaken for a 7.65 mauser because of the magazine below the action of the rifle.   BUT..... The description that FBI man Sayers said Weitzman gave of the rifle is quite detailed and not the product of a quick glance.  There's no doubt that the description that Sayer's gave in his report is describing a 7.65 mauser.....   

If Weitzman was the source of that description, then I'd like to know what the hell was the idea of showing him a 7.65 mauser and leading him to believe that it was the rifle that he and Boone had discovered.....

[Gary Craig]

Is Weitzman's name is spelled wrong on this report? Typed by someone else?
Sometime on 11/23/63. No discription of the rifle.

[Walt Cakebread]

Is Weitzman's name is spelled wrong on this report? Typed by someone else?
Sometime on 11/23/63. No discription of the rifle.

Thanks Gary, for the additional confirmation that the carcano was not touched by anyone until Lt. Day reached down and picked it up by the strap.   However....The rifle may not have been touched but there were boxes of books removed from around the rifle.   Day couldn't have picked up the rifle as he did, if it had been surrounded by the boxes that had hidden it from view.