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Author Topic: The Silent Conspiracy  (Read 857 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2020, 03:10:06 PM »
Charles however seems to feel that Oswald, after deciding to kill Kennedy, picked up the phone and called Sylvia Duran, who then in turn called Castro to let him know

Again, you asked how it could be possible. I gave you a possibility. That doesn’t necessarily mean that I believe that that is for certain what happened. There are other possibilities.

And what are those other possibilities?

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2020, 03:10:06 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2020, 03:12:38 PM »
I gave you a possibility. It wasn’t impossible, as you implied.

I never said or implied that it was impossible. I said that there was nothing feasible about it and that it was unlikely.

The story about Aspillaga doesn't make much sense. Oswald's alleged phone contact, Sylvia Duran was in Mexico, so what significance does it have that Aspillage turned his antennas toward Texas and heard nothing unusual? Also, Aspillage can believe what he wants, but that still does not mean that Castro actually knew about the assassination plan in advance. But if he did, and he heard it from Duran, they would both be part of the conspiracy, simply by not disclosing the information to the authorities.

If you know in advance that a crime is going to be committed and you do nothing, you automatically become complicit in that crime. So, are you now moving away from the LN scenario to a conspiracy?

The evidence suggests that LHO did it without help from anyone. I still believe that. However, I do believe that LHO could have alerted the Cubans after he planned it. However, it’s also feasible that Cuban intelligence was simply keeping track of LHO and knew that he was in Dallas at the TSBD overlooking the motorcade. And that Castro simply wanted his radio equipment monitoring Texas to help keep track of what he thought might happen.

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2020, 03:39:20 PM »
We know Oswald was doing his best to create a resume to impress the Cubans with the objective of gaining entry into Cuba.  It is plausible that he mentioned his attempt on Walker while in Mexico City as part of that process.

If that's so plausible, why did nobody report him mentioning anything of the kind?

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2020, 03:39:20 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2020, 06:45:27 PM »

...There is nothing feasible about it. It is in fact an extreme stretch of the imagination...

Dictionary Definition of feasible:

Feasible: possible to do easily or conveniently.

There is nothing difficult or inconvenient about the possibility of LHO simply picking up a pay phone and alerting Duran. Pay phones were plentiful and he already had her number.

LHO had already reportedly tried to impress them with his past experiences in Russia and other items that he thought they would appreciate. The media was constantly covering the antagonistic acts of both Castro and JFK. LHO was interested in these items and would likely have been of the opinion that Castro wouldn’t mind having JFK gone. And it is feasible that the Cuban intelligence agents actually encouraged LHO in this regard.

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2020, 06:53:27 PM »
Castro wanted to kill Kennedy, so he could then deal with LBJ, because...?

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2020, 06:53:27 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2020, 07:43:03 PM »
Castro wanted to kill Kennedy, so he could then deal with LBJ, because...?

I do not believe that Castro wanted to kill JFK if he could be legitimately blamed for it. But I do believe that he wouldn’t have objected to, or try to stop LHO from killing JFK (provided no blame would be conclusively pointed at Cuba).

According to Brian Latell, Castro knew that the Kennedy brothers were trying to assassinate him, then overthrow the communist government, through the CIA covert activity.

I believe that Castro probably thought if JFK was killed, and blame directed elsewhere, that LBJ most likely wouldn’t continue to pursue the assassination attempts on Castro.

Alexander Haig wrote that Johnson “believed until the day he died that Fidel Castro was behind the assassination.” Maybe LBJ decided he didn’t want to have a similar fate if he could avoid it...

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2020, 09:38:53 PM »
The evidence suggests that LHO did it without help from anyone. I still believe that. However, I do believe that LHO could have alerted the Cubans after he planned it. However, it’s also feasible that Cuban intelligence was simply keeping track of LHO and knew that he was in Dallas at the TSBD overlooking the motorcade. And that Castro simply wanted his radio equipment monitoring Texas to help keep track of what he thought might happen.

The evidence suggests that LHO did it without help from anyone. I still believe that. However, I do believe that LHO could have alerted the Cubans after he planned it.

You are contradicting yourself here. Of course the "lone nut" shooter would do the shooting by himself, but when you have more than one person who knows about the plan, without doing anything with that information, than you move from a "lone nut" shooter to a conspiracy.

However, it’s also feasible that Cuban intelligence was simply keeping track of LHO and knew that he was in Dallas at the TSBD overlooking the motorcade.

Why in the world would Cuban intelligence have any interest in Oswald? But even if they did and they knew he was in Dallas, worked at the TSBD and that the motorcade would pass by there, how does that get you to knowing in advance that Oswald was going to kill Kennedy? There are, to say the least, a few dots missing here. It simply doesn't add up.

And that Castro simply wanted his radio equipment monitoring Texas to help keep track of what he thought might happen.

So, Castro has some intelligence source that is keeping an eye on Oswald to the extend that they know where his lives and works, yet in order to find out what might happen he needs an antenna pointed at Texas to monitor radio traffic..... Are you going James Bond on us now?

Dictionary Definition of feasible:

Feasible: possible to do easily or conveniently.

There is nothing difficult or inconvenient about the possibility of LHO simply picking up a pay phone and alerting Duran. Pay phones were plentiful and he already had her number.

LHO had already reportedly tried to impress them with his past experiences in Russia and other items that he thought they would appreciate. The media was constantly covering the antagonistic acts of both Castro and JFK. LHO was interested in these items and would likely have been of the opinion that Castro wouldn't mind having JFK gone. And it is feasible that the Cuban intelligence agents actually encouraged LHO in this regard.


There is nothing difficult or inconvenient about the possibility of LHO simply picking up a pay phone and alerting Duran. Pay phones were plentiful and he already had her number.

True, picking up a phone and making a call is easy. In this case it is IMO highly unlikely and unprobable given the risks involved with such a call.

LHO had already reportedly tried to impress them with his past experiences in Russia and other items that he thought they would appreciate. The media was constantly covering the antagonistic acts of both Castro and JFK. LHO was interested in these items and would likely have been of the opinion that Castro wouldn't mind having JFK gone.

What is the point of trying to impress the Cubans with the murder of a President when the chances of getting away and surviving are minimal? I suppose "Castro was impressed and grateful" engraved on his tombstone was just about the only thing he could expect.

And it is feasible that the Cuban intelligence agents actually encouraged LHO in this regard.

Which, in fact, would make it a conspiracy involving Castro....

I really don't understand where you are going with this. You seem to want to have your cake and eat it too, but either Oswald was a lone nut in your mind or he was part of some conspiracy. You can't have it both ways.



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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2020, 09:38:53 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2020, 10:11:10 PM »
We know Oswald was doing his best to create a resume to impress the Cubans with the objective of gaining entry into Cuba.  It is plausible that he mentioned his attempt on Walker while in Mexico City as part of that process.  Or made some reference to a willingness to commit violence on behalf of Castro.  The Cubans probably thought he was a nut.  They would not have informed Castro about some nut who showed up in Mexico City.

 After the fact, the Cubans might have believed Oswald was some type of CIA asset who was sent to implicate them in the assassination.  So they cover up whatever threat Oswald made.  And it could not have related to JFK since Oswald would have had no idea at that time that he would ever have an opportunity to assassinate him.  It would have been more general such as a promise to commit some bold or violent act.  Later on, once the incident could no longer be used as a pretext for war, Castro would have used the incident to enhance his reputation as someone with knowledge about the JFK assassination.
Two things (at least) are puzzling to me about the Mexico City/Cuban consulate matter:

(1) Eusebio Azcue, the Cuban consul at the time of Oswald's visit, said (as did two others: Duran, Mirabal) that he threw Oswald out of the consulate with the admonition that "the Revolution doesn't need people like you." This was because Oswald had been demanding and rude with his request for a transit visa.

But the Cubans later granted Oswald a transit visa. Yes, it was contingent (still) on his showing a Soviet visa. So, if they believed Oswald was either some sort of provocateur or a nut or someone they didn't want, why grant him a visa? He's a nut, a danger, throw his request away. Don't process it.

(2) Duran said she only met Oswald that Friday afternoon, September 27, the day he visited the consulate in search of that transit visa. However, CIA recordings indicate that she called the Soviet Embassy on Saturday and then gave the phone to Oswald who continued the conversation. He then proceeded to the Soviet Embassy where he had that strange meeting with the Soviet Embassy/KGB officials where he pulled out his revolver and was acting, according to the Soviets, in a hysterical manner. So why did she (apparently) lie about meeting him on Saturday?

And as a side note: Duran testified that she gave her phone number to Oswald. The number was found among his possessions. So if he didn't go there how did he get her number?

« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 01:17:14 AM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2020, 10:11:10 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2020, 10:18:01 PM »
I do not believe that Castro wanted to kill JFK if he could be legitimately blamed for it. But I do believe that he wouldn’t have objected to, or try to stop LHO from killing JFK (provided no blame would be conclusively pointed at Cuba).

According to Brian Latell, Castro knew that the Kennedy brothers were trying to assassinate him, then overthrow the communist government, through the CIA covert activity.

I believe that Castro probably thought if JFK was killed, and blame directed elsewhere, that LBJ most likely wouldn’t continue to pursue the assassination attempts on Castro.

Alexander Haig wrote that Johnson “believed until the day he died that Fidel Castro was behind the assassination.” Maybe LBJ decided he didn’t want to have a similar fate if he could avoid it...

Castro knew that the Kennedy brothers were trying to assassinate him, then overthrow the communist government, through the CIA covert activity.

Castro had heard that the CIA was plotting to assassinate him... ( He erroneously thought that JFK controlled the CIA )  Castro said that if JFK was plotting his murder  then they themselves should expect retribution in kind.   Castro's remarks were printed in US newspapers.....but behind the scenes, and secretly, JFK was negotiating  with Kruechev,  and trying to open talks with Castro.    When Castro heard that JFK had been assassinated he became very upset...  Saying that this was very bad and he feared that he would be blamed.

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2020, 11:04:41 PM »
Brian Latell’s book: “Castro’s Secrets - Cuban Intelligence, The CIA, and the Assassination of John F. Kennedy” tells many details about the workings of the Cuban DIG and the events surrounding the assassination that I hadn’t seen before. He spells out a believable theory that has Castro knowing about LHO’s intentions to shoot JFK before it happened but remaining silent instead of warning the U.S. about it. An interesting book that, in my opinion, just might be true!
As you point out, Latell doesn't believe Oswald acted on behalf of Castro or on his orders but that Castro may have known that something was going to happen in Dallas because Oswald had made threats against JFK at the Cuban consulate. But that's a pretty far reach; how would Castro even know Oswald was in Dallas that day? There's no evidence of any communications between him and Cuban officials. Where's the evidence for this connection?

In any case, we do have that interesting "exchange" of threats between JFK and Castro. Castro made his on September 27, 1963 at the Brazilian Embassy in Havana. There he told an AP reporter, Dan Harker, that assassination plots against him might backfire and "[the plotters] will not themselves be safe." Harker later explained that Castro specifically singled him out for the remarks and that it was clear that Castro's threat was against US leaders.

Harker: "I never misunderstood Castro. There was absolutely no hint that he was referring to the Cuban exiles. Spanish is my first language, as a Latin-American born in Columbia, Venezuela. That's why the AP sent me to Havana in the first place, because I was fluent in both Spanish and English.

Castro chose me for the interview because I had interviewed him two months earlier, and he was impressed with the4 accuracy of my account. After the September conversation, I stayed in Havana three more years and never once
did he complain that I had misrepresented him. In fact, all our wire transmissions were monitored by the Castro government, which had to approve the material before it was sent out.

The interview [with Castro] lasted three hours. We stood the entire time. Castro was not mad, merely colloquial."

And when Castro was asked about the above comment by the HSCA he said that his warning had nothing to do with the
exiles, but with it was a "warning that we know" about the plots, and they just might boomerang on the authors of the plots."

Then four days before the assassination JFK said this: "It is important to restate what now divides Cuba from my country and from all of the American countries. It is the fact that a small band of conspirators has stripped the Cuban people of their freedom and handed over the independence and sovereignty of the Cuban nation to forces beyond the hemisphere.

They have made Cuba a victim of foreign imperialism, an instrument of the policy of others, a weapon in an effort dictated by external powers to subver the other American Republics. This, and this alone, divides us. As long as this is true nothing is possible. Without it everything is possible. Once this barrier is removed, we will be ready and anxious to work with the Cuban people in pursuit of those progressive goals which, a few short years ago, stirred their hearts..."

So we do have as a backdrop these interesting tit-for-tat implicit threats by Castro and JFK against each other. Did Oswald read these? Was he aware of them? I think so. But did they motivate him to act in response?


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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2020, 11:04:41 PM »

 

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