The Silent Conspiracy

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Offline Richard Smith

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #84 on: January 20, 2020, 03:59:21 PM »
McVeigh left a long trail of evidence about his motives. He was even wearing a T-shirt with a John Wilkes Booth quote at the time of his arrest. 

In contrast, no one knows why Oswald allegedly killed JFK.

And I'm not claiming that Oswald's lack of a motive exonerates him. As I said earlier, I'm inclined to believe he was involved.

What I'm objecting to is the speculation that Oswald was some sort of ideology driven extremist.

There's lots of reasons to doubt that and as a suspect with no motive and no claim of responsibility, he doesn't fit the pattern of most fanatical extremist killers.

Oswald had no idea he only had 48 hours or so to live after his arrest.  He thought he had years or decades.  By assassinating the President, he had changed history and made his mark as a political revolutionary when he pulled the trigger.  He had no incentive, however, to assist the authorities in placing legal responsibility and imposing punishment on himself.  He had only his confession and the details to bargain for his life in that context.  Had he lived, he likely would have waited until he had a deal before confessing.  Similar to James Earl Ray. 

In addition, Oswald was a nut.  Nuts don't have neat "motivations" for their actions.  They don't behave in the same way as normal people.  So it is not surprising that Oswald's "motive" remains unclear.  Only he would know for sure assuming even he could have articulated a reason.  There are clues from his actions that allow us to draw logical inferences but no one can say with absolute certainty.  That doesn't mean there is any doubt that he did it.  Only that his motive must, by necessity, remain the product of some speculation because his actions were not those of a rational person.

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #85 on: January 20, 2020, 04:22:00 PM »
McVeigh left a long trail of evidence about his motives. He was even wearing a T-shirt with a John Wilkes Booth quote at the time of his arrest. 

In contrast, no one knows why Oswald allegedly killed JFK.

And I'm not claiming that Oswald's lack of a motive exonerates him. As I said earlier, I'm inclined to believe he was involved.

What I'm objecting to is the speculation that Oswald was some sort of ideology driven extremist.

There's lots of reasons to doubt that and as a suspect with no motive and no claim of responsibility, he doesn't fit the pattern of most fanatical extremist killers.
Oswald was a completely political person. Politics was his entire life; even more important than his family. He defected to the Soviet Union and turned his back on his family (read the letters he wrote to his brother). He returned to the US, failed miserably, and wanted to defect to Cuba. He was rejected and had to return to the US.

Note: In one letter to his brother when he lived in the USSR he wrote: "In the event of war, I would kill any American who put a uniform on in defense of the American government--any American." Granted, he likely suspected that the KGB was reading the letters so he wanted to impress them with his devotion of the country. Still, it's a pretty odd thing to write.

He regularly read - even though he had little money - radical publications. He talked politics, he read politics, he lived politics. Marina said he used to sing songs to Fidel and wanted to name their first baby Fidel.

His writings indicate he loathed the American political and economic systems. He also said he hated the Soviet system. His personal writings are only about politics. The evidence for me is persuasive that he tried to shoot Walker. He called himself a Marxist (as he understood the term). If that's not someone with extreme views then I'm not sure what we would call it.

I don't believe that on November 22, 1963 that he suddenly woke up and abandoned all of this.

This is a person with extreme views. Who dresses and acts like this?

« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 05:35:41 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #86 on: January 20, 2020, 04:28:47 PM »
McVeigh even wrote about it from prison. LHO didn’t get a chance.

On the eve of the assassination at the Paine residence, LHO didn’t even want to comment about the presidential visit to Dallas when Ruth Paine tried to bring it up for conversation. If LHO still liked JFK, why do you think that he tried to avoid that subject?

I don’t know. Maybe he wasn’t in a good mood because of his Marriage issues.


Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #87 on: January 20, 2020, 04:29:18 PM »
Oswald had no idea he only had 48 hours or so to live after his arrest.  He thought he had years or decades.  By assassinating the President, he had changed history and made his mark as a political revolutionary when he pulled the trigger.  He had no incentive, however, to assist the authorities in placing legal responsibility and imposing punishment on himself.  He had only his confession and the details to bargain for his life in that context.  Had he lived, he likely would have waited until he had a deal before confessing.  Similar to James Earl Ray. 

In addition, Oswald was a nut.  Nuts don't have neat "motivations" for their actions.  They don't behave in the same way as normal people.  So it is not surprising that Oswald's "motive" remains unclear.  Only he would know for sure assuming even he could have articulated a reason.  There are clues from his actions that allow us to draw logical inferences but no one can say with absolute certainty.  That doesn't mean there is any doubt that he did it.  Only that his motive must, by necessity, remain the product of some speculation because his actions were not those of a rational person.

When Castro realized that he wasn’t likely to be able to keep the nuclear missiles he wrote the Armageddon letter to Kruschev requesting a preemptive nuclear strike against the U.S. There’s nothing rational about that either...

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #88 on: January 20, 2020, 04:36:06 PM »
I don’t know. Maybe he wasn’t in a good mood because of his Marriage issues.

He was in a good enough mood to play with the kids in the yard, but not good enough to have a conversation with Ruth about JFK’s visit?

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #89 on: January 20, 2020, 04:55:45 PM »
Oswald was a completely political person. Politics was his entire life; even more important than his family. He defected to the Soviet Union and turned his back on his family (read the letters he wrote to his brother). He returned to the US, failed miserably, and wanted to defect to Cuba. He was rejected and had to return to the US.

I agree that Lee was very politically engaged but according to Robert Oswald, Lee was less enthusiastic about Communism when he returned to the US.

Maybe his time in the USSR, caused him to rethink some of his views about Communism.

Oswald wrote a speech in July 1963 where he ridiculed the Soviet system and called the US Capitalist system the “lesser evil”.

http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-oswald-speech-in-alabama

He also ridiculed the US communist movement.

Because of those things, I don’t believe he was a Communist.

He may have identified himself as a Marxist but the terms “Marxist” and “Communist” aren’t synonyms.

You can be a Marxist while not being a Communist. Marxist ideas are compatible with other Leftist political ideologies.

I think he definitely was a Leftist and critical of the US government but not a Communist in 1963.

If you believe Oswald’s own writings or the claims of George DM, Oswald criticisms of America were based on Racism and Class issues. Which suggests he was more angry at the American Right, than the Liberal wing of US politics that JFK represented.

The evidence for me is persuasive that he tried to shoot Walker. He called himself a Marxist (as he understood the term). If that's not someone with extreme views then I'm not sure what we would call it.

I define “Marxists” broadly as people who believe in Racial and Class solidarity (racial equality and unity among working class people). Marxist ideas and policies can co-exist with Capitalism. Communism cannot co-exist with Capitalism. Based on my research of the Kennedy Assassination, I don’t think Oswald viewed Marxism as synonymous with Communism.

Marxism is not radical at all to me. In fact, Abraham Lincoln was a contemporary of Karl Marx and it’s believed that he was influenced to some extent by Marx’s writings.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/07/27/you-know-who-was-into-karl-marx-no-not-aoc-abraham-lincoln/



This is a person with extreme views. Who dresses and acts like this?



While I have questions about the forensic evidence in the Walker assassination attempt, I agree that Oswald had a motive in that example.

And as I mentioned earlier, I think he was prepared to accept responsibility if he was caught for that crime.

Oswald perceived Gen. Walker as a potential Adolph Hitler and probably thought he might be viewed as a hero for killing him.

Walker definitely was a Fascist and Racist and had a relatively large following. The early 1960s were a violent time for the civil rights movement. So in that context, while I don’t condone political violence, I can see how all those things together might’ve motivated Oswald to act against Walker.

I don’t see any similar pattern with Oswald and JFK.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 05:21:41 PM by Jon Banks »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #90 on: January 20, 2020, 06:54:45 PM »
McVeigh even wrote about it from prison. LHO didn’t get a chance.

On the eve of the assassination at the Paine residence, LHO didn’t even want to comment about the presidential visit to Dallas when Ruth Paine tried to bring it up for conversation. If LHO still liked JFK, why do you think that he tried to avoid that subject?

Why do you assume he was “avoiding” it rather than just not being interested?