The Silent Conspiracy

[Charles Collins]

Oswald's Fair Play For Cuba activism in 1963 (if it was genuine. I suspect it was a psyop) at least suggests that he was aware that the US under Kennedy was still hostile towards Cuba.

Despite that, Oswald still told people he liked JFK after his arrest in New Orleans.

I think that's a gigantic leap.

To suggest that Oswald was radicalized by Communist and Cuban media.

The Tell for me that Oswald was not an ISIS-like "Extremist" is the fact that he claimed he was innocent.

A true Radical/Extremist would proudly take credit for accomplishing his mission. 

Oswald's claim of innocence means either: A) he was really just a patsy or B) he wasn't motivated by ideology. Something else motivated him.

Oswald's claim of innocence means either: A) he was really just a patsy or B) he wasn't motivated by ideology. Something else motivated him.

Now that’s a gigantic leap. The Centennial Olympic Park bomber was a radical who didn’t claim responsibly or plead guilty until over 5-years after the bombing. And even after he was apprehended he waited until his attorney came up with a plea bargain that kept him from being sentenced to death.

So, LHO’s claim doesn’t necessarily mean what you think it means...

[Jon Banks]

Oswald's claim of innocence means either: A) he was really just a patsy or B) he wasn't motivated by ideology. Something else motivated him.

Now that’s a gigantic leap. The Centennial Olympic Park bomber was a radical who didn’t claim responsibly or plead guilty until over 5-years after the bombing. And even after he was apprehended he waited until his attorney came up with a plea bargain that kept him from being sentenced to death.

So, LHO’s claim doesn’t necessarily mean what you think it means...

The Olympic Park Bomber may be the rare exception. I don't know enough about that case.

If you're arguing that Oswald was motivated by pro-Castro/Communist ideology, then his refusal to claim responsibility does go against the pattern of terrorists or killers who are motivated by ideology.

It seems that you're suggesting that Oswald was radicalized by Communist propaganda and a die hard believer.

Generally, people who commit violence for political motives claim responsibility for their actions. Sometimes they leave behind a manifesto.   

FWIW, I think Oswald was prepared to claim responsibility for shooting Gen. Walker if he succeeded and got caught. Hence the backyard photos and the "Hunter of Fascists" stuff.

Oswald even mentioned Walker in one of the letters he wrote to his cousin in 1963.

Unlike the Walker example, Oswald left behind no pattern of animosity or disagreement with Kennedy. The Warren Commission found no evidence that he disliked Kennedy.

It doesn't appear that the hostilities between the US and Cuba from 1961 to 1963 angered Oswald enough for him to say anything negative about JFK. But he said plenty of negative things about Walker. And I believe it was Walker's Reactionary rhetoric on de-Segregation that angered Oswald, not Walker's rhetoric on Cuba.

[Charles Collins]

The Olympic Park Bomber may be the rare exception. I don't know enough about that case.

If you're arguing that Oswald was motivated by pro-Castro/Communist ideology, then his refusal to claim responsibility does go against the pattern of terrorists or killers who are motivated by ideology.

It seems that you're suggesting that Oswald was radicalized by Communist propaganda and a die hard believer.

Generally, people who commit violence for political motives claim responsibility for their actions. Sometimes they leave behind a manifesto.   

FWIW, I think Oswald was prepared to claim responsibility for shooting Gen. Walker if he succeeded and got caught. Hence the backyard photos and the "Hunter of Fascists" stuff.

Oswald even mentioned Walker in one of the letters he wrote to his cousin in 1963.

Unlike the Walker example, Oswald left behind no pattern of animosity or disagreement with Kennedy. The Warren Commission found no evidence that he disliked Kennedy.

It doesn't appear that the hostilities between the US and Cuba from 1961 to 1963 angered Oswald enough for him to say anything negative about JFK. But he said plenty of negative things about Walker. And I believe it was Walker's Reactionary rhetoric on de-Segregation that angered Oswald, not Walker's rhetoric on Cuba.

If you're arguing that Oswald was motivated by pro-Castro/Communist ideology, then his refusal to claim responsibility does go against the pattern of terrorists or killers who are motivated by ideology.

Another one: Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, didn’t immediately proclaim his responsibilities upon being incarcerated...

What you appear to be ignoring, is that Jack Ruby’s murder of LHO prevented any chances that LHO might have claimed responsibility for JFK and Walker after he had obtained an attorney. Opinions on that possibility (predictably) vary...

[Jon Banks]

If you're arguing that Oswald was motivated by pro-Castro/Communist ideology, then his refusal to claim responsibility does go against the pattern of terrorists or killers who are motivated by ideology.

Another one: Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, didn’t immediately proclaim his responsibilities upon being incarcerated...

What you appear to be ignoring, is that Jack Ruby’s murder of LHO prevented any chances that LHO might have claimed responsibility for JFK and Walker after he had obtained an attorney. Opinions on that possibility (predictably) vary...

McVeigh left a long trail of evidence about his motives. He was even wearing a T-shirt with a John Wilkes Booth quote at the time of his arrest. 

In contrast, no one knows why Oswald allegedly killed JFK.

And I'm not claiming that Oswald's lack of a motive exonerates him. As I said earlier, I'm inclined to believe he was involved.

What I'm objecting to is the speculation that Oswald was some sort of ideology driven extremist.

There's lots of reasons to doubt that and as a suspect with no motive and no claim of responsibility, he doesn't fit the pattern of most fanatical extremist killers.

[Charles Collins]

McVeigh left a long trail of evidence about his motives. He was even wearing a T-shirt with a John Wilkes Booth quote at the time of his arrest. 

In contrast, no one knows why Oswald allegedly killed JFK.

And I'm not claiming that Oswald's lack of a motive exonerates him. As I said earlier, I'm inclined to believe he was involved.

What I'm objecting to is the speculation that Oswald was some sort of ideology driven extremist.

There's lots of reasons to doubt that and as a suspect with no motive and no claim of responsibility, he doesn't fit the pattern of most fanatical extremist killers.

Here’s a clip from a Los Angeles Times article about the officer who arrested McVeigh. I can’t help but notice how close hanger came to ending up like Tippit.

Hanger was driving north on Interstate 35 when he passed a rusting, yellow 1977 Mercury Marquis with no license plate. He stopped the car and found behind the wheel a clean-cut, 26-year-old Timothy McVeigh wearing military boots and a windbreaker.

McVeigh also wore a T-shirt with a picture of Abraham Lincoln and the words his assassin, John Wilkes Booth, shouted in Ford’s Theater: “Sic semper tyrannis.” (“Thus always to tyrants.”) On the back was a quote from Thomas Jefferson: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

McVeigh didn’t have proof of insurance or a bill of sale for the car. He told the always-suspicious Hanger that he was on a long, multi-state drive — moving to Arkansas and on his way to get more of his belongings. But there was no suitcase in the car. No change of clothes, either.

As McVeigh reached into his rear pocket for his driver’s license, his windbreaker tightened, and Hanger noticed the bulge of a shoulder holster under his left arm. McVeigh was wearing a loaded Glock pistol and had a 6-inch knife on his belt.

“My gun is loaded,” Hanger recalled McVeigh telling him as Hanger grabbed the bulge under the jacket.

“So is mine,” the trooper responded, putting his own gun to McVeigh’s head before arresting him for unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon. If he hadn’t spotted the bulge, he would have let McVeigh go with a ticket.

As Hanger drove back to the Noble County Courthouse, McVeigh, sitting in the passenger seat, rattled off the serial number of his gun, correctly except for a single digit. He asked Hanger how fast his car ran, what kind of firearm he carried, how he could get his own gun back.

“I thought it was just nervous chatter,” Hanger said. “The radio was going. They were still sending units to Oklahoma City. I never made any comment about it and he never made any comment about it. I thought, ‘He’s just passing through. He doesn’t know what’s going on.’”

Hanger booked McVeigh into the Noble County Jail, inmate 95-057, and took his wife to lunch. Like everyone else, he was glued to the TV news coverage of the bombing.

As the nation searched for the bomber and public speculation lingered on men of Middle Eastern descent,McVeigh sat in a concrete cell atop the aging courthouse.

McVeigh was supposed to go before a county judge the next day, Thursday, but his hearing was delayed because the judge got tied up in a messy divorce case. The hearing was rescheduled for Friday.

Hanger was at home that morning when a dispatcher with Highway Patrol headquarters called asking if McVeigh was still in jail. Hanger doubted it, since he could easily make bail, but to his surprise McVeigh was still there, his car still parked by the interstate about 35 miles south of the Kansas state line.

McVeigh’s hearing had been delayed again, this time because the judge’s son had missed the school bus and the judge had to give the boy a ride. McVeigh probably would be seeing the judge any minute, Hanger told the dispatcher. Put a hold on him for the FBI, he was told. Now.

The trail that led to McVeigh had begun with the discovery of the Ryder truck’s rear axle.

Flung two blocks from the blast site, the axle still held the vehicle identification number, which led authorities to the rental agency and then to a motel where McVeigh had stayed, registered under his real name. Staff said he resembled a composite sketch of “John Doe No. 1,” seen near the Murrah Building before the explosion.

Authorities had learned McVeigh was in jail because Hanger had run his Social Security number through a national crime database after his arrest.

Word spread fast in Perry that something was up.
...

These days, Hanger says he was just doing his job, though he later realized that, had he made one false move, McVeigh could have shot him on that highway.

“Looking back later at who I was dealing with, what could have happened — that was more frightening than what happened that day,” Hanger said. “I often run the whole scenario back through my mind to see if there was something I missed, something I should have picked up on, and I’m just glad I didn’t let him go.”

However the main point is that even though McVeigh was arguably more radical,  like LHO, he didn’t immediately proclaim his cause or guilt.

[Jon Banks]

However the main point is that even though McVeigh was arguably more radical,  like LHO, he didn’t immediately proclaim his cause or guilt.

I agree but my point is McVeigh did have a clear motive based on the evidence discovered later, unlike LHO who never uttered a negative word about Kennedy according to everyone who knew him.

Even if McVeigh was killed before confessing to the OKC bombing, it was clear that he was a rightwing extremist and the bombing was connected to his ideology...

[Charles Collins]

I agree but my point is McVeigh did have a clear motive based on the evidence discovered later, unlike LHO who never uttered a negative word about Kennedy according to everyone who knew him.

Even if McVeigh was killed before confessing to the OKC bombing, it was clear that he was a rightwing extremist and the bombing was connected to his ideology...

McVeigh even wrote about it from prison. LHO didn’t get a chance.

On the eve of the assassination at the Paine residence, LHO didn’t even want to comment about the presidential visit to Dallas when Ruth Paine tried to bring it up for conversation. If LHO still liked JFK, why do you think that he tried to avoid that subject?