CE 2562

[John Tonkovich]

Don't take anything literal from the illustration. I have no idea how the Carcanos were placed in the box. May have been 2 rows of 5 or some other configuration.

I can't prove it to your satisfaction but I believe the Carcanos were shipped in cardboard boxes. This box, for example, could hold ten Carcanos and it claims to hold up to 80 lbs. ( Link ). Back in the 1960s, balled-up newspaper and bagged popcorn or wood chips made lightweight packing material. Maybe a few cardboard cut-outs that supported the rifle inside the box.

Can't see them using wood and all that extra shipping weight for surplus weapons with a small profit margin. Since the container was cardboard, a shipper might be willing to charge "Net Weight" only (weight of goods, excluding container) to secure a contract.

Thanks.

[Walt Cakebread]

The FBI, in CE 2562, reports on a carton containing 100 Carcano rifles, including serial number C2766 rifle. The carton containing the rifles is listed as weighing 750 lbs. I.e. 7.5 lbs per rifle.
The rifle in the national archives is listed as weighing 8 lbs.

Your thoughts?

(Sorry for not linking to CE 2562. Having technical problems. CE 2562 is readily available at History Matters. And elsewhere.)

Thank you.

The rifle in the archives has the added weight of a telescopic sight and a leather sling......The rifles that were delivered to Kleins had neither the telescopic sight or the leather sling.     

[Walt Cakebread]

The ad says 7.5 lb. Your posting. Bayonet is irrelevant. Removed afterward? Never there? We're talking original 100 rifle shipment. 750 lbs. FBI report, WC.

750 lbs in a 60lb container?

Still, that's about 810 lbs.

The 36" rifle weighs 5.5 lbs.

FBI paperwork suggests..100 36" rifles.

I just weighed my model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano short rifle ( 40.2 inches long)  It weighs 7.8 pounds with a leather sling attached.

 I would guess that the sling probably weighs 2 ounces .....

Klein's order form allegedly filled out by Oswald..36" rifle.

National archives rifle..40".

( P.S. A tip of the hat to Martha Moyer. And crazy John " I invented two Oswalds.. because...?" Armstrong, who is occasionally a good researcher...but a complete charlatan otherwise..)

The rifles did not come with bayonets....So the weight of the rifle without the sling or scope should have been 7 and 1/2 pounds.....

I weighed my model 91/38 short rifle ( 40.2") and it weighs 7.8 pounds with a leather sling attached.   I'd guess the sling weighs about 2 ounces....

[John Tonkovich]

The rifles did not come with bayonets....So the weight of the rifle without the sling or scope should have been 7 and 1/2 pounds.....

I weighed my model 91/38 short rifle ( 40.2") and it weighs 7.8 pounds with a leather sling attached.   I'd guess the sling weighs about 2 ounces....

Interesting. Thanks.

Your post - I'm sure it's accidental- has your reply in your quote of my post. For the record, I own no rifles.

[John Tonkovich]

Don't take anything literal from the illustration. I have no idea how the Carcanos were placed in the box. May have been 2 rows of 5 or some other configuration.

I can't prove it to your satisfaction but I believe the Carcanos were shipped in cardboard boxes. This box, for example, could hold ten Carcanos and it claims to hold up to 80 lbs. ( Link ). Back in the 1960s, balled-up newspaper and bagged popcorn or wood chips made lightweight packing material. Maybe a few cardboard cut-outs that supported the rifle inside the box.

Can't see them using wood and all that extra shipping weight for surplus weapons with a small profit margin. Since the container was cardboard, a shipper might be willing to charge "Net Weight" only (weight of goods, excluding container) to secure a contract.

I have some doubt about the "net weight" theory, since shippers usually deduct "tare" from containers they provide to clients. (I'm willing to be corrected on that; I am no expert on shipping, and yes, I am not - unlike the Pope, allegedly - infallible.)

But if we go with your proposition on shipping weight of the rifles, 750lbs for 100 units, then the rifles would be 7.5lbs each, i.e. 40" rifle, not the 36" model Oswald ordered. No? Yes?

[Walt Cakebread]

I have some doubt about the "net weight" theory, since shippers usually deduct "tare" from containers they provide to clients. (I'm willing to be corrected on that; I am no expert on shipping, and yes, I am not - unlike the Pope, allegedly - infallible.)

But if we go with your proposition on shipping weight of the rifles, 750lbs for 100 units, then the rifles would be 7.5lbs each, i.e. 40" rifle, not the 36" model Oswald ordered. No? Yes?

Yes, The 40 inch long, 7.5 pound, model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano short rifle is the rifle that was sent to PO box 2915 in Dallas....   But when it was shipped to Dallas it had a scope attached which increased the weight to 8 pounds.    I believe that it is the same rifle that was found on the sixth floor where it had been carefully hidden beneath a pallet that had boxes of books stacked on it ( It had NOT been hastily cast aside) ...And it had NOT been fired that day....So it was NOT the murder weapon.

The Carcano was found well hidden beneath a heavy pallet of boxes of books.  Boone and Weitzman had to use powerful flashlights to enable them to see beneath the pallet where the rifle was lying on it's right side ( Sling and scope up)  Detective Robert Studebaker measured the distance from the interior side of the north wall of the building and recorded that the rifle was 25 feet 4 inches south of that north wall and 5 feet east of the west wall. (See Studebaker's map) The in situ photos that purportedly show the rifle as it was found are fakes.    The rifle in the in situ photo is only 13 feet from that north wall.

The DPD was forced to move the rifle over two feet north when someone realized that there wasn't a human being on earth who could reach across the distance from the aisle at the top of the stairs and place the rifle down on the floor beneath a stack of books that was four feet high.

[John Tonkovich]

The order form in the National Archives shows C20-T750. 36".