Tippit Shooting, 1:15

[John Iacoletti]

Markham saw the shooting.

Scoggins and the two Davis girls saw the same man seen by Markham.

Callaway and Guinyard saw the same man seen by Scoggins and the two Davis girls.

Reynolds, Patterson and Russell saw the same man seen by Callaway and Guinyard.

Therefore, witnesses "a block away from the crime scene" saw the killer.

Your assumption that they all saw the same man is unwarranted.

[John Iacoletti]

[Walt Cakebread]

Tippit's body was removed from the scene just after Bowley arrived at 1:10 and he was declared DOA at the hospital at 1:15.

There are no police tapes. All there are, are transcripts of recordings made with voice activated devices, making it impossible to verify actual times.

Yes, people do not get everything 100% right all the time. It is also possible that Markham got the time (1:15) wrong for catching the 1:12 bus!

What is beyond dispute however is that Markham saw Tippit being shot prior to Bowley's arrival at 1:10, shortly after which Bowley saw Tippit's body loaded in to an ambulance which took him to the hospital where he was declared DOA at 1:15, in the presence - according to their report - by DPD officers Davenport and Bardin.

For Markham to be wrong about the time she left home, Bowley also needs to be wrong about his time of arrival (which implicitely means he left his daughter waiting for him after school) and the hospital also must have gotten the time of the DOA wrong.

Tippit's body was removed from the scene just after Bowley arrived at 1:10 and he was declared DOA at the hospital at 1:15.

This is interesting Martin...  We know that TF Bowley arrived at 1:10 ( and there's no good reason to doubt that the time is reasonably accurate) And I believe he took a quick look at Tippit who was lying on the street, and then went to use Tippit's radio.  That time could have been anywhere between 1:10 and 1:12...

You say that Tippit's body was removed just after Bowley arrived ....  Is there verification for the time that the ambulance picked up Tippit's body?   It's difficult to believe that the ambulance could have arrived at the hospital at 1:15.   I wonder if the DOA of 1:15 was just a guess ....  Perhaps the ambulance attendants told the doctor that Tippit was dead when they picked him up.

[Zeon Mason]

See, this is what is confusing to me, is the phrase "AT 1:15pm, pronounced dead" which logically one would read as meaning that the clock time was 1:15pm when Oswald was pronounced DOA.

That means the ambulance must have arrived at 10th and Patton about 3 minutes approx earlier at about 1:12pm which is just about right after Bowley makes a call about 1:10, which somehow gets recorded in the DPD dispatch record as 1:16pm

I maybe mistaken, but I think I remember Bill Brown having a thread many years back, in which Bill suggested the 1:15pm time was the physicians ESTIMATE of the time of death made, and that the actual time of arrival of the ambulance to the hospital emergency room was 1:18pm based on some other record

[Martin Weidmann]

Tippit's body was removed from the scene just after Bowley arrived at 1:10 and he was declared DOA at the hospital at 1:15.

This is interesting Martin...  We know that TF Bowley arrived at 1:10 ( and there's no good reason to doubt that the time is reasonably accurate) And I believe he took a quick look at Tippit who was lying on the street, and then went to use Tippit's radio.  That time could have been anywhere between 1:10 and 1:12...

You say that Tippit's body was removed just after Bowley arrived ....  Is there verification for the time that the ambulance picked up Tippit's body?   It's difficult to believe that the ambulance could have arrived at the hospital at 1:15.   I wonder if the DOA of 1:15 was just a guess ....  Perhaps the ambulance attendants told the doctor that Tippit was dead when they picked him up.

Walt,

Bowley said in his affidavit to the DPD that he saw the ambulance arrive and pick up Tippit just after he had been on the radio.

The arrival of the ambulance at the hospital (which was not far away) and the DOA time is confirmed by the report of Davenport and Bardin, posted earlier in this thread.

[Martin Weidmann]

See, this is what is confusing to me, is the phrase "AT 1:15pm, pronounced dead" which logically one would read as meaning that the clock time was 1:15pm when Oswald was pronounced DOA.

That means the ambulance must have arrived at 10th and Patton about 3 minutes approx earlier at about 1:12pm which is just about right after Bowley makes a call about 1:10, which somehow gets recorded in the DPD dispatch record as 1:16pm

I maybe mistaken, but I think I remember Bill Brown having a thread many years back, in which Bill suggested the 1:15pm time was the physicians ESTIMATE of the time of death made, and that the actual time of arrival of the ambulance to the hospital emergency room was 1:18pm based on some other record

I maybe mistaken, but I think I remember Bill Brown having a thread many years back, in which Bill suggested the 1:15pm time was the physicians ESTIMATE of the time of death made, and that the actual time of arrival of the ambulance to the hospital emergency room was 1:18pm based on some other record

I remember that Brown argued that the ambulance couldn't have been at the hospital at 1:15 because a time stamp card of the funeral home allegedly documented the departure of the ambulance from Jefferson as having taken place at 1:18. The problem with that argument is that nobody has ever been able to produce that time stamp card and the only reference to it being made (as far as I know) is a rather vague statement of a funeral home employee to the HSCA.

There's also another indicator that the ambulance's arrival at the hospital at 1:18 doesn't do Brown any favor. When you trace the fastest route between 10th street and the hospital on North Beckley, on Google map, the estimated drive time is 7 minutes. Had the ambulance arrived at 1:18, it would mean that it must have picked up Tippit - at best - 7 minutes earlier, at 1:11. Obviously, that's a far cry from the ambulance leaving the funeral home at 1:18. On the other hand, it is within a reasonable margin of error (of 3 minutes or so) in the Markham/Bowley/Ambulance/ Davenport scenario.

In any event; let's not forget that Markham saw Tippit being shot prior to the arrival of Bowley (at 1:10) and Bowley saw the ambulance pick up Tippit just after he made his radio call. Combined, this information means that Tippit must have been shot somewhere between 1:06 and 1:10.

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt,

Bowley said in his affidavit to the DPD that he saw the ambulance arrive and pick up Tippit just after he had been on the radio.

The arrival of the ambulance at the hospital (which was not far away) and the DOA time is confirmed by the report of Davenport and Bardin, posted earlier in this thread.

Thank you Martin, ...I was not challenging your statement but my old mind doesn't work as good as it once did. And I had forgotten what Bowley said in his affidavit.