The "Domino Room Alibi"

[Colin Crow]

      Why would he bother to fight his way through those boxes in order to get inside the sniper's nest?

Mr. BALL. What did you sit on while you ate your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. First of all, I remember there was some boxes behind me. I just kind of leaned back on the boxes first. Then I began to get a little impatient, because there wasn't anyone coming up. So I decided to move to a two-wheeler.
Mr. BALL. A two-wheeler truck, you mean?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I remember sitting on this two-wheeler. By that time, I was through, and I got up and I just left then.
Mr. DULLES. How much of the room could you see as you finished your lunch there? Was your view obstructed by boxes of books, or could you see a good bit of the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time I couldn't see too much of the sixth floor, because the books at the time were stacked so high. I could see only in the path that I was standing--as I remember, I could not possibly see anything to the east side of the building. But just one aisle, the aisle I was standing in I could see just about to the west side of the building. So far as seeing to the east and behind me, I could only see down the aisle behind me and the aisle to the west of me.

So why did he not notice the gunman at 12.15 seen in the SW window? Because he was eating in the SN.......where his lunch was originally discovered. And he was noticed by Rowland.

[Martin Weidmann]

At The Education Forum, Lance Payette has made several excellent points regarding Lee Harvey Oswald's so-called "Domino Room Alibi". If you'd like to take a gander, here's the link....

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26009-who-was-mrs-robert-reid/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-406382

As an addendum to Lance's comments on this matter, I'd like to also point out the following fact (which Lance has not mentioned [as yet anyway])....

For the sake of argument, even if all three of the individuals being discussed in the "Domino Room Alibi" discussion (Jarman, Norman, and Oswald) were, in fact, together at the same time in or near the Domino Room on the first floor of the Book Depository Building shortly before JFK was killed on 11/22/63, that fact most certainly does not exonerate Lee Harvey Oswald as President Kennedy's assassin.

Why?

Because we know that two of those three people—James Jarman Jr. and Harold Norman—were present on the south side of the fifth floor of the TSBD at the time of the assassination. They were photographed by Tom Dillard just seconds after the last shot was fired.

Therefore, since we know that Jarman and Norman had the capability of getting from the first-floor Domino Room to an upper floor of the Depository prior to the time when President Kennedy arrived at the corner of Elm and Houston Streets, then why wouldn't Lee Harvey Oswald have possessed that same capability?

Conspiracy theorists would no doubt argue that the above scenario is not very realistic, in that it would be hard to believe that a person who was planning on killing the President would have been located on the first floor (and at the back of the building) at a time when he should have been in his sniper's perch on the sixth floor waiting for the President to arrive in Dealey Plaza.

But there are several "unknown" factors associated with Lee Oswald's pre-assassination actions and mindset that have never been proven or firmly established—such as the "unknown" answers to these three questions:

Where and when did Oswald assemble his rifle (and how long did it take him to do so)?

and...

How long did it take Oswald to construct his "Sniper's Nest" of boxes?

and...

What exactly was Oswald thinking in the hours and minutes leading up to JFK's arrival?

I'm not saying that I think that Oswald was in the Domino Room with Jarman and Norman just a few minutes before the assassination. I don't believe he was. But I am saying that the so-called "Domino Room Alibi", which many conspiracy theorists think is some sort of rock-solid proof of Lee Harvey Oswald's innocence, is really nothing of the kind—even if Oswald had been located in that Domino Room a few minutes before 12:30 PM on November 22, 1963.

For the sake of argument, even if all three of the individuals being discussed in the "Domino Room Alibi" discussion (Jarman, Norman, and Oswald) were, in fact, together at the same time in or near the Domino Room on the first floor of the Book Depository Building shortly before JFK was killed on 11/22/63, that fact most certainly does not exonerate Lee Harvey Oswald as President Kennedy's assassin.

Why?

Because we know that two of those three people—James Jarman Jr. and Harold Norman—were present on the south side of the fifth floor of the TSBD at the time of the assassination. They were photographed by Tom Dillard just seconds after the last shot was fired.

Therefore, since we know that Jarman and Norman had the capability of getting from the first-floor Domino Room to an upper floor of the Depository prior to the time when President Kennedy arrived at the corner of Elm and Houston Streets, then why wouldn't Lee Harvey Oswald have possessed that same capability?

I agree that when Norman and Jarman could make it to the 5th floor, Oswald could indeed have made it to the 6th. But IMO there are two flaws in this reasoning. First of all, we now know that the motorcade was running late. At the time it happened, the shooter wouldn't and couldn't have known that. So, for the shooter to show up on the 6th floor just prior to 12.30 pm seems an unlikely scenario. Even more so as witnesses said that they saw movement in the window from 12.15 pm, which would make a lot more sense as it computes far better with the scheduled time the motorcade was due to pass by the TSBD. It obviously doesn't compute well with a scenario in which Oswald stays in the Domino room until just prior to 12.30 pm

[John Mytton]

Where do you theorise that Oswald was when he noticed them John? Sitting next to BRW in the SN? 

Perhaps, 4 eyes searching are better than 2!

JohnM

[David Von Pein]

I agree that when Norman and Jarman could make it to the 5th floor, Oswald could indeed have made it to the 6th. But IMO there are two flaws in this reasoning. First of all, we now know that the motorcade was running late. At the time it happened, the shooter wouldn't and couldn't have known that. So, for the shooter to show up on the 6th floor just prior to 12.30 pm seems an unlikely scenario. Even more so as witnesses said that [they] saw movement in the window from 12.15 pm, which would make a lot more sense as it computes far better with the scheduled time the motorcade was due to pass by the TSBD. It obviously doesn't compute well with a scenario in which Oswald stays in the Domino room until just prior to 12.30 pm

I agree with everything you just said, Martin.

My earlier point was not that I believe Oswald was down on the first floor at about 12:25. (As I said previously, I definitely do not believe such a thing.) I merely was pointing out the fact that a 12:25 alibi is not the same thing as a 12:30 alibi. And 12:30, as we all know, is the key time here.

[David Von Pein]

At another forum a few years ago, an LNer named Bud put a theory on the table that I thought was kind of interesting. It can never be proven, of course, but I thought it was intriguing nevertheless....

Bud's speculation was that Oswald might have gone back downstairs to the first-floor Domino Room shortly before he assassinated the President in order to retrieve the rifle bullets that he had forgotten to take up to the sixth floor earlier in the day. (I think Bud was theorizing that Oswald probably had the bullets in the pocket of his blue coat which was later found in the Domino Room.)*

* EDIT/FWIW -- Shortly after I posted the above comments, I looked up Bud's original 2011 Internet message regarding this topic of Oswald's rifle bullets. Here is that message:

"He [Oswald] doesn't need to see them [Jarman & Norman] on the first [floor], he only needs to have seen them outside, and heard them come in down below him. And it doesn't matter if he did see them on the first floor, I've always felt it was possible for a smart guy like Oswald to keep the bullets apart from the rifle, to allow for deniability if the rifle was discovered. If he left the bullets in his jacket pocket in the Domino room and went down to retrieve them, he might have seen them (although you [Donald Willis] are nowhere near establishing that he did with the weak out-of-context nonsense you are trying to use for support). You see, it doesn't matter if Oswald was on the first floor then, it doesn't afford him an alibi, nobody was killed then. It doesn't matter when the motorcade was due to arrive, if circumstances prevented Oswald from getting to where he hid the rifle, or he had trouble assembling it, these things would dictate more than the clock." -- Bud; July 1, 2011

[Michael Walton]

Pat Speer went into great detail on this. He has found plenty of evidence to the contrary. No one here (crazy CTers and of course the Nutters) will of course bother reading the link below but if you really want to learn how it was virtually impossible for Oswald to have done what he was accused of doing in that very tight time frame and with so many people around, then read this very carefully.

http://www.patspeer.com/chapter4b%3A%22theso-calledevidence%22

Lance Payette seems like a nice guy. I gave him some advice when he traveled to DC a while back on a nice unknown site to see down there (the FDR memorial) and he said he enjoyed it afterward. But as for this case, Lance is nothing if not a walking contradiction. He claims to be a genius attorney who believes in no conspiracy anywhere, no UFOs (rightfully so) but also believes there is some higher up fairy out there controlling the universe with nothing more to believe in than "faith."

The problem with Lance is that for all of his so-called lawyerly prowess, he simply cannot shake it that things were a little too perfect, too pat, on 11/22. Any lawyer worth their salt - putting all of the other batshit craziness of this case aside - would have found plenty of oddities in this case that go beyond mere coincidence.

[Thomas Graves]

Pat Speer went into great detail on this. He has found plenty of evidence to the contrary. No one here (crazy CTers and of course the Nutters) will of course bother reading the link below but if you really want to learn how it was virtually impossible for Oswald to have done what he was accused of doing in that very tight time frame and with so many people around, then read this very carefully.

http://www.patspeer.com/chapter4b%3A%22theso-calledevidence%22

Lance Payette seems like a nice guy. I gave him some advice when he traveled to DC a while back on a nice unknown site to see down there (the FDR memorial) and he said he enjoyed it afterward. But as for this case, Lance is nothing if not a walking contradiction. He claims to be a genius attorney who believes in no conspiracy anywhere, no UFOs (rightfully so) but also believes there is some higher up fairy out there controlling the universe with nothing more to believe in than "faith."

The problem with Lance is that for all of his so-called lawyerly prowess, he simply cannot shake it that things were a little too perfect, too pat, on 11/22. Any lawyer worth their salt - putting all of the other batshit craziness of this case aside - would have found plenty of oddities in this case that go beyond mere coincidence.

Nah, we leave that for Gullible, Paranoiac, America-hating, KGB-loving Tinfoil Hat Conspiracy Theorists to do.

LOL

--  MWT