Why the first shot missed

[Steve M. Galbraith]

How old are you? You LNer trolls are the reason I don't bother with this site any more. You have no critical thinking skills and you wouldn't know a fallacy if it bucked (ryhmes with f*cked) you in your arse. The irony is that the Lone Nut Conspiracy Theory has a hold of you Neo.

I have no intention of engaging with you tin foil hat LNers at least until you grow up and learn how to use logic to make an argument. Maybe then you can debate like an adult. Until then, later dude.

 

He's not a lone nutter. He believes the KGB/Soviets were behind the assassination. Or a group of them; the so-called "inner" KGB. That is to say, he's a conspiracist.

[Tom Graves]

He's not a lone nutter. He believes the KGB/Soviets were behind the assassination. Or a group of them; the so-called "inner" KGB. That is to say, he's a conspiracist.

If you're referring to me, you've misread me.

My believing that a probable KGB mole by the name of Bruce Leonard Solie (look him up) in the CIA's mole-hunting Office of Security sent (or duped his confidant, protégé, and mole-hunting subordinate, James Angleton, into sending) Oswald to Moscow in 1959 as an ostensible "dangle" in a planned-to-fail hunt for "Popov's U-2 Mole" (Solie) in the wrong part of the CIA -- which mole hunt lasted nine years, tore the CIA apart and drove Angleton nuts -- doesn't necessarily mean that I believe the KGB was behind the JFKA (although there are some tantalizing clues that it was).

The "Inner KGB" that you alluded to (Department D of the First Chief Directorate -- foreign intelligence -- today's SVR) was created in 1959 when the Kremlin realized that the USSR and the Warsaw Pact couldn't defeat the U.S. and NATO militarily and decided to get us to get us to tear ourselves apart, instead (Can you say Donald J. Trump?). General Gribanov of the more secretive Second Chief Directorate (domestic intelligence and overall counterintelligence -- today's FSB), not to be outdone, set up his own Sun Tzu-based Department 14 in the SCD, and, as soon as CIA's spy Oleg Penkovsky had been "trapped like a bear in its den" in such a way as to not reveal who in U.S. or British intelligence had betrayed him within two weeks of his April 1961 recruitment, sent Aleksei Kulak (J. Edgar Hoover's shielded-from-CIA FEDORA) and Dmitry Polyakov (TOPHAT) to the FBI's NYC field office to "volunteer" to spy for it at the U.N.

Six months after KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn's 12/15/61 defection to the U.S., Gribanov sent false-defector-in-place Yuri Nosenko to the CIA in Geneva to discredit what Golitsyn was telling Angleton about penetrations of U.S. Intelligence and the intelligence services of our NATO allies, which intel, unfortunately, Angleton was naively sharing with the aforementioned Bruce Leonard Solie (do remember to look him up) just as he'd shared intel with his earlier father figure, Kim Philby.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

If you're referring to me, you've misread me.

My believing that a probable KGB mole by the name of Bruce Leonard Solie (look him up) in the CIA's mole-hunting Office of Security sent (or duped his confidant, protégé, and mole-hunting subordinate, James Angleton, into sending) Oswald to Moscow in 1959 as an ostensible "dangle" in a planned-to-fail hunt for "Popov's U-2 Mole" (Solie) in the wrong part of the CIA -- which mole hunt lasted nine years, tore the CIA apart and drove Angleton nuts -- doesn't necessarily mean that I believe the KGB was behind the JFKA (although there are some tantalizing clues that it was).

The "Inner KGB" that you alluded to (Department D of the First Chief Directorate -- foreign intelligence -- today's SVR) was created in 1959 when the Kremlin realized that the USSR and the Warsaw Pact couldn't defeat the U.S. and NATO militarily and decided to get us to get us to tear ourselves apart, instead (Can you say Donald J. Trump?). General Gribanov of the more secretive Second Chief Directorate (domestic intelligence and overall counterintelligence -- today's FSB), not to be outdone, set up his own Sun Tzu-based Department 14 in the SCD, and, as soon as CIA's spy Oleg Penkovsky had been "trapped like a bear in its den" in such a way as to not reveal who in U.S. or British intelligence had betrayed him within two weeks of his April 1961 recruitment, sent Aleksei Kulak (J. Edgar Hoover's shielded-from-CIA FEDORA) and Dmitry Polyakov (TOPHAT) to the FBI's NYC field office to "volunteer" to spy for it at the U.N.

Six months after KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn's 12/15/61 defection to the U.S., Gribanov sent false-defector-in-place Yuri Nosenko to the CIA in Geneva to discredit what Golitsyn was telling Angleton about penetrations of U.S. Intelligence and the intelligence services of our NATO allies, which intel, unfortunately, Angleton was naively sharing with the aforementioned Bruce Leonard Solie (do remember to look him up) just as he'd shared intel with his earlier father figure, Kim Philby.

You've said before - if I recall the details - that, among other things, the Soviets connected Oswald to Kostikov through the CIA monitored phone call in Mexico City to prevent a fuller investigation out of a fear that an investigation would lead back to Kostikov and Department Thirteen. And from there to WWIII. You've also said Nosenko was a false defector sent in part to mislead the CIA about their relationship with Oswald.

Why did the Soviets do this if they weren't involved?

If I have the above wrong you can of course correct me.

[Tom Graves]

You've said before - if I recall the details - that, among other things, the Soviets connected Oswald to Kostikov through the CIA monitored phone call in Mexico City to prevent a fuller investigation out of a fear that an investigation would lead back to Kostikov and Department Thirteen. And from there to WWIII. You've also said Nosenko was a false defector sent in part to mislead the CIA about their relationship with Oswald.

Why did the Soviets do this if they weren't involved?

If I have the above wrong you can of course correct me.

Not only that, but KGB true defector Pyotr Deriabin (1954) wrote a couple of days after the assassination that (former KGB "swallow") Marina had to be at least a low-level KGB informant to be permitted to marry Oswald and leave the USSR with him, and, according to Richard Russell in his book, "The Man Who Knew Too Much," CIA counterintelligence analyst Clare Edward Petty read some WW II VENONA decrypts in the early 1970s which convinced him that GdM was very probably a long-term KGB "illegal."

I mean, I mean, I mean . . . how equivocal do you want me to be? (LOL)

The truly important thing, however, is that whether or not the KGB (or the DGI) killed JFK, the former has been "making hay" out of the anomaly-replete assassination since virtually Day One, and the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is has promulgated and encouraged over the past sixty years have helped to make cynical, paranoiac and apathetic our body politic to such a degree that "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin was able to install The Traitorous Orange Dude as our "president" in 2017 and 2025.

IMHO, Russia won The Cold War on 5 November 2024.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Not only that, but KGB true defector Pyotr Deriabin (1954) wrote a couple of days after the assassination that (former KGB "swallow") Marina had to be at least a low-level KGB informant to be permitted to marry Oswald and leave the USSR with him, and, according to Richard Russell in his book, "The Man Who Knew Too Much," CIA counterintelligence analyst Clare Edward Petty read some WW II VENONA decrypts in the early 1970s which convinced him that GdM was very probably a long-term KGB "illegal."

I mean, I mean, I mean . . . how equivocal do you want me to be? (LOL)

The truly important thing, however, is that whether or not the KGB (or the DGI) killed JFK, the former has been "making hay" out of the anomaly-replete assassination since virtually Day One, and the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is has promulgated and encouraged over the past sixty years have helped to make cynical, paranoiac and apathetic our body politic to such an extent that "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin was able to install The Traitorous Orange Dude as our "president" in 2017 and 2024.

IMHO, Russia won The Cold War on 5 November 2024.

So I didn't misread you. You *do* believe there was a Soviet role in Oswald's act. That is, a conspiracy.

As to the Venona intercepts: the names in those messages have been identified (largely by the historians Haynes and Klehr). DeMohrenschildt isn't among them. Although the identification is still a work in progress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Americans_in_the_Venona_papers

[Tom Graves]

So, I didn't misread you. You *do* believe there was a Soviet role in Oswald's act.

Correction: I *do* believe that there *may* have been a Soviet role in Oswald's act.

For all of the reasons I mentioned, above.

As to the Venona intercepts: the names in those messages have been identified (largely by the historian Haynes and Klehr). DeMohrenschild isn't among them.

I don't have access to the VENONA decrypts Russell was referring to.

All I know is that he said that in Petty's opinion, GdM matched the description of an NKVD "illegal" who:

1) Was from "Poland," or some-such country.

2) Was in the U.S. before WW II.

3) Had lived in Mexico during WW II.

4) Was a real "wheeler-dealer."


Factoids:

George "von" Mohrenschildt was born in Mazyr, Belarus, about 300 miles east of the Polish border.

He immigrated to the U.S. in May 1938.

He and his girlfriend, Lilia Larin, lived in Mexico for several months in 1942.

He was an insurance salesman.

He marketed his own artwork.

He was a sugar speculator.

He was an oil speculator.

He was a film producer.

And . . . gasp . . . he married at least one woman for her substantial moo-la (sp?),

 

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Correction: I *do* believe that there *may* have been a Soviet role in Oswald's act.

For all of the reasons I mentioned, above.

I don't have access to the VENONA decrypts Russell was referring to.

All I know is that he said that in Petty's opinion, GdM matched the description of an NKVD "illegal" who:

1) Was from "Poland," or some-such country.

2) Was in the U.S. before WW II.

3) Had lived in Mexico during WW II.

4) Was a real "wheeler-dealer."


Factoids:

George "von" Mohrenschildt was born in Mazyr, Belarus, about 300 miles east of the Polish border.

He immigrated to the U.S. in May 1938.

He and his girlfriend, Lilia Larin, lived in Mexico for several months in 1942.

He was an insurance salesman.

He marketed his own artwork.

He was a sugar speculator.

He was an oil speculator.

He was a film producer.

And . . . gasp . . . he married at least one woman for her substantial moo-la (sp?),

All of the intercepts/decrypts have been released. You can read them here: https://www.nsa.gov/Helpful-Links/NSA-FOIA/Declassification-Transparency-Initiatives/Historical-Releases/Venona/

The problem is identifying the code names. Almost all of that, as I understand it, has been done by historians, chiefly by John Haynes and Harvey Klehr. They have a list of over 300 names in their book. Not all were agents. For example, FDR's code name was identified (capitan). I would think if DeMorenschildt's name was hinted at they would have found it.

You're relying too much on conspiracy authors who simply, for me, have a rather, let's say, shaky grasp of things. People like Russell and Simpich et al. They can see a CIA conspiracy in a bowl of corn flakes. For most of us, it's just breakfast.