The number one CT nightmare question ...

[Louis Earl]

"If you believe this you also have to believe that this costly big scale conspiracy would willingly take the risk that Oswald could be literally anywhere in company with anybody in such a way that he could not be set up."

I've always thought that LHO was in the 2nd floor lunchroom by himself because he WAS INSTRUCTED to be anywhere so long as he was alone.  If so, yes, he should have wondered why but maybe he didn't. 

[Richard Smith]

"If you believe this you also have to believe that this costly big scale conspiracy would willingly take the risk that Oswald could be literally anywhere in company with anybody in such a way that he could not be set up."

I've always thought that LHO was in the 2nd floor lunchroom by himself because he WAS INSTRUCTED to be anywhere so long as he was alone.  If so, yes, he should have wondered why but maybe he didn't.

How exactly could Oswald or the fantasy conspirators ensure that he would be "by himself" in a lunchroom at lunch time?  Imagine that plan! LOL.  After months or years spent to frame Oswald for the assassination, they just let him sit out in plain view for any random person who wanted to buy a drink or have lunch to see.  Good grief.  No one can possibly believe that was the plan.  If Oswald is following "INSTRUCTIONS" why not just have him sequestered somewhere on the 6th floor where he is supposed to be in the frame up plan?  If you were planning this event, would you let your patsy out of your sight in a lunchroom at the moment you were framing him for the assassination?  Absolutely not.  A critical component of any such plan is that Oswald must be unaccounted for and have no alibi at the time of the assassination.

[Martin Weidmann]

There is no logical way that a conspiracy to frame Oswald could have worked without the cooperation of Oswald himself.  At a minimum, Oswald would have to agree to take the job at the TSBD, stay there until JFK could be brought to Dallas, show up on 11.22, carry a large bag, not be in the company of anyone else or be photographed on the street giving him an alibi at the moment of the assassination, and flee like the place was on fire moments after the assassination.  These actions could not be be left to chance and only ensured if Oswald was an active participant in the conspiracy (i.e. at least to the extent of following instructions).  Which is why many CTers appear to have given up on the notion of Oswald as an innocent Mr. Magoo-like character stumbling into trouble time and again.  Instead Oswald is playing some unspecified role - maybe as the shooter or maybe as some gullible Gomer Pyle type who gets caught up in the plot.  Of course there is zero credible evidence of Oswald's involvement with anyone else, but it at least makes more narrative sense for Oswald to have been playing some active role in the fantasy conspiracy.

There is no logical way that a conspiracy to frame Oswald could have worked without the cooperation of Oswald himself.

I agree, but he could have been manipulated to believe he was involved in something else, while being set up for the assassination.

At a minimum, Oswald would have to agree to take the job at the TSBD, stay there until JFK could be brought to Dallas, show up on 11.22, carry a large bag, not be in the company of anyone else or be photographed on the street giving him an alibi at the moment of the assassination, and flee like the place was on fire moments after the assassination.  These actions could not be be left to chance and only ensured if Oswald was an active participant in the conspiracy (i.e. at least to the extent of following instructions). 

Cut the dramatics. If there was a conspiracy, it must have been one at the highest levels. At those levels none of the actual facts would have a problem since the narrative could have been made to fit after the fact.... even more so when there wasn't going to be a trial

not be in the company of anyone else or be photographed on the street giving him an alibi at the moment of the assassination

Why would being photographed be a a problem? We know there were people who had their cameras confiscated and they never got the pictures back that they took.

Which is why many CTers appear to have given up on the notion of Oswald as an innocent Mr. Magoo-like character stumbling into trouble time and again.

Define "innocent"

Of course there is zero credible evidence of Oswald's involvement with anyone else, 

Would you expect there to be if a conspiracy had taken place and the conspirators (if they exist) control the evidence and the narrative?

To me there are enough indications in the WC report to conclude something was going on that shouldn't have been. The documented need to manipulate Oswald's bio, the selective calling of witnesses, the tampering with at least one WC witness's testimony, the way physical evidence was handled etc.... It was all geared up the reach a pre-determined conclusion regardless of the actual facts. But I guess to look at all that honestly one needs an unbiased view, so I am probably talking to the wrong guy.

[Richard Smith]

    What I find wrong with the presumption is that they were unwilling to take risks.  It was all very daredevil, but they figured, if we pull it off, it's payday.

Define "payday."  There are obviously considerable risks associated with assassinating the president.  Like going to jail for the rest of your life or being killed.  I don't think anyone with the alleged capabilities of the conspirators in this case (e.g. bringing JFK to Dallas in a motorcade that passes the TSBD and manipulating all the evidence including random citizens) leaves Oswald's movements to chance.

[Martin Weidmann]

Define "payday."  There are obviously considerable risks associated with assassinating the president.  Like going to jail for the rest of your life or being killed.  I don't think anyone with the alleged capabilities of the conspirators in this case (e.g. bringing JFK to Dallas in a motorcade that passes the TSBD and manipulating all the evidence including random citizens) leaves Oswald's movements to chance.

You are simply not getting this, are you?

Oswald's actual movements wouldn't have mattered one bit if the force behind the conspiracy (if there was one) was able to control the evidence and the narrative.

Once Oswald was killed, who was going to deny anything they claimed about him?

[Richard Smith]

There is no logical way that a conspiracy to frame Oswald could have worked without the cooperation of Oswald himself.

I agree, but he could have been manipulated to believe he was involved in something else, while being set up for the assassination.

At a minimum, Oswald would have to agree to take the job at the TSBD, stay there until JFK could be brought to Dallas, show up on 11.22, carry a large bag, not be in the company of anyone else or be photographed on the street giving him an alibi at the moment of the assassination, and flee like the place was on fire moments after the assassination.  These actions could not be be left to chance and only ensured if Oswald was an active participant in the conspiracy (i.e. at least to the extent of following instructions). 

Cut the dramatics. If there was a conspiracy, it must have been one at the highest levels. At those levels none of the actual facts would have a problem since the narrative could have been made to fit after the fact.... even more so when there wasn't going to be a trial

not be in the company of anyone else or be photographed on the street giving him an alibi at the moment of the assassination

Why would being photographed be a a problem? We know there were people who had their cameras confiscated and they never got the pictures back that they took.

What exactly is "dramatic" about noting that any conspiracy that went to the lengths of framing Oswald would not leave his movements to chance at the moment of the assassination?  And you don't believe it would be an issue for your fantasy conspirators if Oswald had been on the street at the moment of the assassination?  LOL.  Yes, all the conspirators had to do was confiscate and/or manipulate every single photo and film taken in DP.  No wonder you are a CTer. 

[Richard Smith]

You are simply not getting this, are you?

Oswald's actual movements wouldn't have mattered one bit if the force behind the conspiracy (if there was one) was able to control the evidence and the narrative.

Once Oswald was killed, who was going to deny anything they claimed about him?

Aren't you embarrassed to peddle this nonsense?  Oswald's movements "wouldn't have mattered one bit"!  LOL.  What if he hadn't gone to work that day and took a long weekend at the Paine residence?  Your fantasy conspirators go to all manner of outlandish lengths to manipulate evidence and coerce random citizens to lie but they can't keep track of Oswald at the crucial moment of the assassination?   Instead he is allowed to wonder about where anyone might encounter him and give him an alibi instead of doing the obvious and simple thing of just sequestering him for a couple of minutes.  You can't be for real.