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Author Topic: BWF and LMR may not have been the only ones who saw LHO with a bag on 11/22/1963  (Read 96401 times)

Offline Colin Crow

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Tell us why he wouldn't have told the police that he had curtain rods, and just claim that someone took them.

Tell us why LMR did not mention the "curtain rods" to Adamcik on the afternoon of the shooting.

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Offline Bill Chapman

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Tell us why LMR did not mention the "curtain rods" to Adamcik on the afternoon of the shooting.

Did Oswald tell LMR that he came out to Irvine to get curtain rods?

Offline Colin Crow

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Did Oswald tell LMR that he came out to Irvine to get curtain rods?

No, but she claimed that her brother told her that was the reason on Thursday evening after she saw her brother drop Oswald off at the Paines. Yet the next day she failed to recognise Oswald or remember about the rods and associate it with the package. Neither did Frazier until Oswald reminded him. Remarkably unremarkable it seems given the enquiry from both about the unusual nature of the timing of the visit.

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Offline John Iacoletti

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Did Oswald tell LMR that he came out to Irvine to get curtain rods?

Irvine, California?

Offline John Iacoletti

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Tell us why he wouldn't have told the police that he had curtain rods, and just claim that someone took them.

Because without without being able to produce these curtain rods, it would be used against him. It?s either
 
He admitted carrying a package into the building ? he?s guilty

Or

He denied carrying a package into the building ? he?s guilty

LN-ers naively assume that cops are on the up and up. The Dallas PD proved they were not when they illegally searched, beat up, and arrested Oswald for murder without any probable cause.

His best bet, guilty or innocent, was to admit nothing and ask for a lawyer.


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Offline Tim Nickerson

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Thank you, Mr Nickerson!  Thumb1:

Now!

Let's ask the obvious questions!

1. Why were these items tested for fingerprints (if indeed the dark smudges on each of them are indeed from fingerprint testing)?

2. Were any of them tested for fingerprints 8 days before being found?

The answer to 1 is pretty straightforward: to a) verify that Mr Oswald had handled them (lest he claim that they were planted) and/or b) determine whether they might bear prints belonging to known subversives or possible confederates of Mr (and possibly even Mrs Marina?) Oswald. (This is what Mr Latona means by "... which in themselves bear Oswald's prints, which they should because they belong to him"-------i.e. no significant fingerprints found!)

The answer to 2 is very straightforward: no!

Now!

Two new questions!

1. Why would 2 curtain rods found in the Paine garage be tested for Mr Oswald's fingerprints?

2. Were any of these curtain rods submitted for testing for Mr Oswald's fingerprints 8 days before 2 curtain rods were taken from the Paine garage?

The answer to 1 is: still no logical reason known to man!

The answer to 2 is: yes indeed---------both of them!

One final question!

Of the following haul from the on-the-record WC visit to Ms Paine's Irving home on 23 March 1964-----------



------------how many were submitted by Agent Howlett to Lieutenant Day for fingerprinting?

 Thumb1:

If the answer to 1 is pretty straightforward then why the need for two options?

The wallet contained items such as a Library card, his Selective Service card, his Certificate of Service in the Armed Forces card, and his Social Security card. Lest he claim that they were planted? I'm trying to understand that one and am not having any success thus far.

You skirted around the question of why other personal possessions of Oswald's were checked for fingerprints.

Here are some of the items that were removed from the Paine Residence and from 1026 North Beckley and which were examined by the Latent Fingerprint Section , Identification Division, FBI in January of 1964:


- One box "Marcal Kitchen Charm" wax paper

- One box of four bottles and one box of three bottles of"Squibbs" Pentids"400"

- One bar pink "Lux" soap

- One small plastic box containing  three lima bean shaped "Squibbs" tablets and piece of cotton

- One single blade brown pocketknife

- One two-blade pockertknife, plastic handle, with corkscrew

- Plastic box containing tweezers and two pieces of cotton

- Small plastic box, empty

- Mirror in green folding case

- One can "Tidy" deodorant powder

- One "Gillette" adjustable razor with blade

- One tube of "Colgate" dentalcream, partially empty

- One plastic bottle "Mum" mist spray deodorant

- Yellow toothbrush, "Colgate" brand

- Small green plastic hand brush

- Green and brown BB automatic ball-point pen

- Small pair scissors bearing letters "USA"

- Package containing 14 "Gillette" thin blades and one sample "Gillette Super Blue Blade"

- Pair black-rimmed green lens sunglasses

- "Farmers Electric Co-Op, Inc."(advertisement) ball-point pen

- Nail clipper with chain, "Gem" brand

- Nail clipper, "Trim" brand

- White plastic cup

- Partial tube "Foille"

- Small bottle iodine, "Layman's" brand

- Two small brown unlabeled bottles with liquid

- Small bottle of clear liquid bearing labels with Cyrillic printing

- Four unused airmail envelopes

- One unused U.S Post Office Change of Address card

- Four onionskin blank sheets of paper

- One small soft plastic open container

- One "Venus Forum" pencil

- One yellow 'Yellowstone" pencil

- One brown 'E-Z Note" pencil

- One black,small crayon pencil

- Two large paper clips

- One 10 cent box of "Steel City Gem" small #3 paper clips

- One cardboard box with 18 brass-colored thumbtacks

- One brush with hollow tin handle

- Label with "King Oscar Kipper" recipes

- Box, yellow top, black bottom, bearing name "Ektachrome" torn

- One silver=colored men's cuff link

- Alphabetical index guidecards labeled A through Z - unmarked

- Steel index cardbox, "Weis, Monroe, Michigan" brand

- 31 6 x 4 lined index card, blank
==============================================================

Why would those items be tested for fingerprints?


« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 07:28:08 AM by Tim Nickerson »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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How was it determined which items belong to him?

- One box "Marcal Kitchen Charm" wax paper

- One box of four bottles and one box of three bottles of"Squibbs" Pentids"400"

- One bar pink "Lux" soap

- One small plastic box containing  three lima bean shaped "Squibbs" tablets and piece of cotton

- One single blade brown pocketknife

- One two-blade pockertknife, plastic handle, with corkscrew

- Plastic box containing tweezers and two pieces of cotton

- Small plastic box, empty

- Mirror in green folding case

- One can "Tidy" deodorant powder

- One "Gillette" adjustable razor with blade

- One tube of "Colgate" dentalcream, partially empty

- One plastic bottle "Mum" mist spray deodorant

- Yellow toothbrush, "Colgate" brand

- Small green plastic hand brush

- Green and brown BB automatic ball-point pen

- Small pair scissors bearing letters "USA"

- Package containing 14 "Gillette" thin blades and one sample "Gillette Super Blue Blade"

- Pair black-rimmed green lens sunglasses

- "Farmers Electric Co-Op, Inc."(advertisement) ball-point pen

- Nail clipper with chain, "Gem" brand

- Nail clipper, "Trim" brand

- White plastic cup

- Partial tube "Foille"

- Small bottle iodine, "Layman's" brand

- Two small brown unlabeled bottles with liquid

- Small bottle of clear liquid bearing labels with Cyrillic printing

- Four unused airmail envelopes

- One unused U.S Post Office Change of Address card

- Four onionskin blank sheets of paper

- One small soft plastic open container

- One "Venus Forum" pencil

- One yellow 'Yellowstone" pencil

- One brown 'E-Z Note" pencil

- One black,small crayon pencil

- Two large paper clips

- One 10 cent box of "Steel City Gem" small #3 paper clips

- One cardboard box with 18 brass-colored thumbtacks

- One brush with hollow tin handle

- Label with "King Oscar Kipper" recipes

- Box, yellow top, black bottom, bearing name "Ektachrome" torn

- One silver=colored men's cuff link

- Alphabetical index guidecards labeled A through Z - unmarked

- Steel index cardbox, "Weis, Monroe, Michigan" brand

- 31 6 x 4 lined index card, blank
==============================================================


Setting aside the question of whether those items belonged to Oswald or not, why would they be tested for fingerprints?

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Offline Alan Ford

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If the answer to 1 is pretty straightforward then why the need for two options?

 :D

Because different items may offer different grounds for testing. Duh!

You still haven't offered a single cogent reason why 2 curtain rods found in the Paine garage would be tested for Mr Oswald's prints. But I guess 'Don't know, don't care' was your way of giving a 'straightforward' answer!

Quote
You skirted around the question of why other personal possessions of Oswald's were checked for fingerprints.

 :D

And you must have missed this part of my response!:

"[to] determine whether they might bear prints belonging to known subversives or possible confederates of Mr Oswald"

Imagine---------for example-----------the prints of Mr J Ruby or Officer J. D. Tippit had been found on the automatic ball-point pen!

Now!

I repeat my question with specific reference to the list of items you have given us:

Were any of these items submitted for fingerprint testing 8 days before being found?

 Thumb1: