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[Paul May]

Good posting Tom.

[Paul May]

we have no way of knowing the weight of CE-399 before the shooting as even bullets from the same lots at manufacture can be significantly different in weight.

You are simply a liar, Mr May....  Bullets CANNOT be "significantly different in weight".... To make such a statement is asinine. I will look up the manufacturing spec for a 6.5mm 160 grain bullet and report back....

I found this interesting bit of information.....

 the standard Italian service round used an unstable round-nosed bullet with a propensity to tumble, whether hitting soft tissue/ballistic gel or harder material such as bone.

The liars on LBJ's Cover Up Committee would like us to believe that CE 399 hit JFK ....then Hit JBC rib and then his wrist and remained in nearly pristine condition....

I believe that a 160 grain FMJ 6.5mm Carcano bullet could weigh between 158.8 grains and  161.2 grains .....  That is NOT a SIGNIFICANT difference.

So, some 56 years AFTER the event, you now found out CE-399 was tumbling! Hint for you genius, it?s not unusual for a FMJ?d bullet to tumble after going through soft tissue.  Of course, when one, YOU, does no actual research, that remains an unknown. It?s no doubt apparent to those reading this exchange you have little actual knowledge of the events of 11/22.  That happens when all you do is read conspiracy crap. Once again, near pristine is an oxymoron. CE-399 was considerably ?bowed? in the center and ?tooth pasting? lead from the bottom. RESEARCH big man, research!

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt, do you have even an elementary understanding of ballistics? Have you done ANY actual research?  I?ve asked you about your research methodology several times and you?ve not responded.  You?re not shy but I understand why.  Speak with ANY ammunition manufacturer/distributor. The differences in grain, from the VERY same lot can be dramatic. Nobody on our planet can testify to the specific weight of CE-399 before firing other than conspiracy nuts like you and you confirm this with each posting. Perhaps, at some point you fell off your motorcycle.  Should have worn a helmet.

My friend Tom Scully posted the information that I was looking  for.....

The Western Cartridge Company Carcano Round ....
...WCC 6.5mm FMJ data:
 
Bullet Weight- Several sources can be used to ascertain the bullet weight. Dr. John K. Lattimer weighed 100 WCC bullets. The average weight was 160.844 grains. The bullets ranged in weight between 159.9 and 161.5 grains. The spread equals 1.6 grains. Tom Purvis, assassination researcher, acquired a few rounds and was able to weigh them. He weighed 12 rounds and found the average weight to be 160.497 grains. The FBI analysis of the WCC rounds produced a small sample for consideration. Agent Robert Frazier weighed three rounds for comparative analysis and found the weights to be 160.85, 161.1 and 161.5 grains for an average weight of 161.15 grains. I have one round, lot unidentified, which weighs 161.6 grains. Utilizing the above data, we can develop an effective average and range. 
 
WCC mean weight- 160.82 grains
WCC weight range- 159.9-161.6 grains
WCC spread- 1.7 grains ..

The differences in grain, from the VERY same lot can be dramatic.

What would be dramatic would be the results of firing ammo that used projectiles of SIGNIFICANTLY different weights....If the Axis alliance had used 6.5mm carcano bullets of SIGNIFICANTLY different weights ..... Italy would have been defeated in 1942....And the casualties of Allied soldiers would have been far less....                 

[Paul May]

My friend Tom Scully posted the information that I was looking  for.....

The Western Cartridge Company Carcano Round ....
...WCC 6.5mm FMJ data:
 
Bullet Weight- Several sources can be used to ascertain the bullet weight. Dr. John K. Lattimer weighed 100 WCC bullets. The average weight was 160.844 grains. The bullets ranged in weight between 159.9 and 161.5 grains. The spread equals 1.6 grains. Tom Purvis, assassination researcher, acquired a few rounds and was able to weigh them. He weighed 12 rounds and found the average weight to be 160.497 grains. The FBI analysis of the WCC rounds produced a small sample for consideration. Agent Robert Frazier weighed three rounds for comparative analysis and found the weights to be 160.85, 161.1 and 161.5 grains for an average weight of 161.15 grains. I have one round, lot unidentified, which weighs 161.6 grains. Utilizing the above data, we can develop an effective average and range. 
 
WCC mean weight- 160.82 grains
WCC weight range- 159.9-161.6 grains
WCC spread- 1.7 grains ..

The differences in grain, from the VERY same lot can be dramatic.

What would be dramatic would be the results of firing ammo that used projectiles of SIGNIFICANTLY different weights....If the Axis alliance had used 6.5mm carcano bullets of SIGNIFICANTLY different weights ..... Italy would have been defeated in 1942....And the casualties of Allied soldiers would have been far less....                 

And this would be your latest research? An opinion? Seriously?

[Jack Trojan]

So, some 56 years AFTER the event, you now found out CE-399 was tumbling! Hint for you genius, it?s not unusual for a FMJ?d bullet to tumble after going through soft tissue.  Of course, when one, YOU, does no actual research, that remains an unknown. It?s no doubt apparent to those reading this exchange you have little actual knowledge of the events of 11/22.  That happens when all you do is read conspiracy crap. Once again, near pristine is an oxymoron. CE-399 was considerably ?bowed? in the center and ?tooth pasting? lead from the bottom. RESEARCH big man, research!

Paul, the bottom line is to account for the total mass of CE-399 after the shooting. Connally denied access to the fragments in his wrist and rib upon his death so we can only speculate how much material was left in his body. It also smashed thru JFK's C7 vertebrae so there was probably material left there. However, despite these discrepancies, CE-399 was pristine (95% intact). So how much mass was actually lost? Was it more than 5% of the total mass or was CE-399 "pristine"? That is the question.

[Paul May]

Paul, the bottom line is to account for the total mass of CE-399 after the shooting. Connally denied access to the fragments in his wrist and rib upon his death so we can only speculate how much material was left in his body. It also smashed thru JFK's C7 vertebrae so there was probably material left there. However, despite these discrepancies, CE-399 was pristine (95% intact). So how much mass was actually lost? Was it more than 5% of the total mass or was CE-399 "pristine"? That is the question.

Impossible Jack, cannot be done. No fired bullet can EVER be called pristine. Typically the grooves in the rifle barrel would see to that. Have you seen the photos of CE-399?  Balistically, it?s a completely deformed bullet. Look at the photos top to bottom.  I have no information how much mass was lost. I do know CE-399 behaved in a manner consistent with fmj?d ammunition.

[Royell Storing]

                Humes did Not buy into the SBT for the exact reason being currently discussed. CE-399's minor grain loss issue. You guys wantta swear by Humes until he refutes your position. Then the guy is incompetent. Humes had people looking over his shoulder with regard to his work on the body of JFK & his Autopsy Report.  Outside of that he was somewhat of a chatter box. His ARRB Testimony Verified the autopsy starting at roughly 1845 which corroborated Sgt Boyajian's Official MD 236 of an 1835 JFK body arrival at Bethesda. Of course, Jackie and the Empty Coffin did Not arrive at the Bethesda gate until 1900.