Lack Of Damage To CE-399

[John Iacoletti]

We know that the fragments deposited in Connally came from CE 399 because that bullet was found on the stretcher that he had been on.

Complete non-sequitur.

Even if we were to assume that CE 399 weighed 159.9 grains before being fired, the total mass of the fragments deposited in Connally still would not exceed the mass missing from that bullet.

What Martin said.

[Tim Nickerson]

How can you make such a statement when you don't know what the combined weight is of the fragments that are still in Connally's body?

Aren't you forgetting those fragments recovered from Connally during surgery that Audrey Bell gave to either an FBI agent or a Secret Service agent?

Dr. Gregory estimated the largest fragment deposited in the wrist to be five-tenths of a millimeter in diameter to approximately two millimeters in diameter. In looking at the X-Ray of the thigh, said that the fragment in it was about 5 tenths of a millimeter by 2 millimeters. At those dimensions, the lead fragment would weigh 17.8 milligrams. One grain is equivalent to 64.8 milligrams. So, those two fragments together weighed about 1/2 of a grain.

A postoperative X-Ray shows a tiny fragment left in the wrist. Gregory referred to it as a needle in a hay stack. It was so tiny that it wasn't worth the effort to try and remove it. Combine that fragment with the three small ones removed from the wrist and you'd really have to stretch the imagination to get their total mass up to 1/4 of a grain.

Here are the fragments removed from Connally by Dr. Gregory:



Audrey Bell gave them to Texas Highway Patrolman Bobby M. Nolan. Bell recalled that he wasn't in uniform. He probably wasn't, which was not uncommon for Texas Patrolmen back then.

[Martin Weidmann]

Dr. Gregory estimated the largest fragment deposited in the wrist to be five-tenths of a millimeter in diameter to approximately two millimeters in diameter. In looking at the X-Ray of the thigh, said that the fragment in it was about 5 tenths of a millimeter by 2 millimeters. At those dimensions, the lead fragment would weigh 17.8 milligrams. One grain is equivalent to 64.8 milligrams. So, those two fragments together weighed about 1/2 of a grain.

A postoperative X-Ray shows a tiny fragment left in the wrist. Gregory referred to it as a needle in a hay stack. It was so tiny that it wasn't worth the effort to try and remove it. Combine that fragment with the three small ones removed from the wrist and you'd really have to stretch the imagination to get their total mass up to 1/4 of a grain.

Here are the fragments removed from Connally by Dr. Gregory:



Audrey Bell gave them to Texas Highway Patrolman Bobby M. Nolan. Bell recalled that he wasn't in uniform. He probably wasn't, which was not uncommon for Texas Patrolmen back then.

Audrey Bell gave them to Texas Highway Patrolman Bobby M. Nolan.

Actually, no, apparently she didn't. She told the ARRB that she turned over the fragments to two plain clothes law enforcement officers who she believed to be FBI or Secret Service Agents. She got a handwritten reciept from one of the men, which she gave to the hospital administrator, Jack Price.

She also told the ARRB that the fragments shown in CE 842 were too small and too few in number to represent what she handled on 11/22/63.

Bell recalled that he wasn't in uniform. He probably wasn't, which was not uncommon for Texas Patrolmen back then.

Bell never recalled that he [Nolan] wasn't in uniform. She never mentioned Nolan at all. All she said was that she gave the fragments to two plain clothes officers. Could either one of those have been Nolan? Sure, but Bell never recalled that! Also, that Nolan probably wasn't in uniform is an assumption on your part for which there is no evidence to support it.

[Jack Trojan]

Dr. Gregory estimated the largest fragment deposited in the wrist to be five-tenths of a millimeter in diameter to approximately two millimeters in diameter. In looking at the X-Ray of the thigh, said that the fragment in it was about 5 tenths of a millimeter by 2 millimeters. At those dimensions, the lead fragment would weigh 17.8 milligrams. One grain is equivalent to 64.8 milligrams. So, those two fragments together weighed about 1/2 of a grain.

A postoperative X-Ray shows a tiny fragment left in the wrist. Gregory referred to it as a needle in a hay stack. It was so tiny that it wasn't worth the effort to try and remove it. Combine that fragment with the three small ones removed from the wrist and you'd really have to stretch the imagination to get their total mass up to 1/4 of a grain.

Here are the fragments removed from Connally by Dr. Gregory:



Audrey Bell gave them to Texas Highway Patrolman Bobby M. Nolan. Bell recalled that he wasn't in uniform. He probably wasn't, which was not uncommon for Texas Patrolmen back then.

What part of CE-399 did those fragments come from? And why did they shear off from an otherwise slightly deformed bullet? And how much material was lost passing thru the barrel? And where was the DNA on the bullet? And why was it found on the wrong stretcher? And lastly, why does the FBI no longer apply a Neutron Activation Analysis to match bullet fragments?

[Tim Nickerson]

Audrey Bell gave them to Texas Highway Patrolman Bobby M. Nolan.

Actually, no, apparently she didn't. She told the ARRB that she turned over the fragments to two plain clothes law enforcement officers who she believed to be FBI or Secret Service Agents. She got a handwritten reciept from one of the men, which she gave to the hospital administrator, Jack Price.

She believed that he was either FBI or a Secret Service agent because he was not wearing a uniform. She was shown a photocopy of the following envelope:



She identified the handwriting on it as being hers. Nolan identified his own mark on it. She did not get a handwritten receipt from one of the men. She wrote out a receipt herself and had Nolan sign it. She signed it as well. In her ARRB interview, she described what the receipt was written on.

She also told the ARRB that the fragments shown in CE 842 were too small and too few in number to represent what she handled on 11/22/63.

That is false. She was shown a photocopy of CE 842 and could only make out the large fragment in it. She was sure that there were 3 to 5 fragments in total. She thought four. She did not say that the fragments were too small.

Bell recalled that he wasn't in uniform. He probably wasn't, which was not uncommon for Texas Patrolmen back then.

Bell never recalled that he [Nolan] wasn't in uniform. She never mentioned Nolan at all. All she said was that she gave the fragments to two plain clothes officers. Could either one of those have been Nolan? Sure, but Bell never recalled that! Also, that Nolan probably wasn't in uniform is an assumption on your part for which there is no evidence to support it.

She never recalled Nolan's name. Why would she? She recalled that the person wasn't in uniform. Since that person was Bobby Nolan, it's not much of an assumption on my part to say that he wasn't wearing a uniform.

[Tim Nickerson]

What part of CE-399 did those fragments come from? And why did they shear off from an otherwise slightly deformed bullet? And how much material was lost passing thru the barrel? And where was the DNA on the bullet? And why was it found on the wrong stretcher? And lastly, why does the FBI no longer apply a Neutron Activation Analysis to match bullet fragments?

The lead came from the base of the bullet. Any blood that might have still been on it when Robert Frazier received it was wiped off by him. It wasn't found on the wrong stretcher. The FBI no longer uses Neutron Activation Analysis to match bullet fragments because the accuracy of the procedure is apparently questionable.

[Martin Weidmann]

She believed that he was either FBI or a Secret Service agent because he was not wearing a uniform. She was shown a photocopy of the following envelope:



She identified the handwriting on it as being hers. Nolan identified his own mark on it. She did not get a handwritten receipt from one of the men. She wrote out a receipt herself and had Nolan sign it. She signed it as well. In her ARRB interview, she described what the receipt was written on.

Fair enough. I had not seen the actual receipt and only quoted from her ARRB statement. So, she did give it to Nolan after all.

However, although I am not at home and don't have access to all my files, I did check a hard drive with some material on it and came across a newspaper clip from the days of the HSCA. It does not say the name of the paper or an exact date, but mentions that HSCA investigators had finished talking to Audrey Bell. In the article it says that another Patrolman named C. Harbison was also given 3 fragments of a bullet that came from Connally's body. He turned them over to the FBI. My initial thought was that he must have been the other plain clothes officer with Nolan, but the article says that Harbison was given the three fragments on 11/25/63. Three days after Bell gave her fragments to Nolan. I wonder what happened to Harbison's fragments and why he - according to the article - was never called to testify.....

That is false. She was shown a photocopy of CE 842 and could only make out the large fragment in it. She was sure that there were 3 to 5 fragments in total. She thought four. She did not say that the fragments were too small.

It does not say in the ARRB report that she was shown a photocopy nor that she could only make out the large fragment. And she did in fact say that the fragments were too small!

The ARRB report says: "When shown CE 842 (page 841 in Warren Commission Volume XVII), she said that the fragment(s) photographed in the container were too small, and were too few in number, to represent what she handled on 11/22/63."

She never recalled Nolan's name. Why would she? She recalled that the person wasn't in uniform. Since that person was Bobby Nolan, it's not much of an assumption on my part to say that he wasn't wearing a uniform.

As I said before, fair enough.

[Jack Trojan]

The lead came from the base of the bullet.

How do you know this?

Any blood that might have still been on it when Robert Frazier received it was wiped off by him.

Huh? Why would he do that?

It wasn't found on the wrong stretcher.

So you think CE-399 fell out of Connally's thigh and onto this stretcher? Based on what?

The FBI no longer uses Neutron Activation Analysis to match bullet fragments because the accuracy of the procedure is apparently questionable.

So you agree that the fragments could not be matched to CE-399? Then how can you assume they came from it?