When did Jarman and Norman go to the 5th floor?

[Walt Cakebread]

The fact that there is not consistency of detail provided by those that were present may well have been contributed largely because of ignorance of the layout.

Does it not seem bizarre that an accused would try to claim an alibi of having lunch with individuals if it did not happen? They would simply deny it ever occurred and the lie add weight to the guilt of the accused.

However if they were noticed either passing by the northern window of the domino room or heading away from the domino room to the west elevator it would be worth mentioning during interrogation to establish presence away from the SN at that time.

Does it not seem bizarre that an accused would try to claim an alibi of having lunch with individuals if it did not happen? They would simply deny it ever occurred and the lie add weight to the guilt of the accused.

Indeed it would be utterly stupid for the accused (Lee Oswald)  to claim that he had companions eating lunch with him at 12:27.

Lee Oswald wasn't stupid..... He wouldn't have told the interrogators such a stupid lie.....They simply misunderstood what he told them or deliberately misconstrued what he told them.   

However if they were noticed  (by LHO) either passing by the northern window of the domino room or heading away from the domino room to the west elevator it would be worth mentioning during interrogation to establish presence away from the SN at that time.

Yes...And in fact that is exactly what Lee did.....  Unfortunately he never realized that he was talking to one of the key conspirators who would twist his statements.

[Walt Cakebread]

If Oswald was in the Sniper's Nest, couldn't he have seen Jarman and Norman on the street below? And wouldn't he know Jarman and Norman were together from them having arrived at the fifth-floor window together?

Was there some stretch in assuming they went up from the street and through the building together, including passing by the domino room?

If Oswald was in the Sniper's Nest, couldn't he have seen Jarman and Norman on the street below?

Sure... if he had a neck like a giraffe .......

And wouldn't he know Jarman and Norman were together from them having arrived at the fifth-floor window together?

Sure.... with his giraffe neck he could have looked down from the sixth floor window and seen them.

Was there some stretch in assuming they went up from the street and through the building together, including passing by the domino room?

Stretch?? interesting choice of words there Mr Organ......  Considering that Lee would have had to STRETCH his giraffe neck to see what you propose....

[Bob Prudhomme]

Colin

If Jarman and Norman did not go up to the 5th floor until 1220-1225, and Bonnie Ray Williams did not descend from the 6th floor to join them until after that, that can only mean BRW was present on the 6th floor, almost right on top of the Sniper's Nest, slightly before the motorcade passed at 1230.

How would Oswald have been able to re-arrange all of the boxes in the SN without BRW hearing or seeing him, as BRW was within spitting distance of the SN?

[Bob Prudhomme]

My guess is that everything was arranged and the rifle was assembled (if it needed to be) during one of the morning hours. I believe the idea is that he moved two boxes, weighing about eight pounds each, from the center area of the floor to the SN. These boxes included the one on top of a larger box that was near the open window and a similar box that was set up on the window box.

The other boxes had been shifted there from the first aisle (western-most) where they had begun to lay a plywood covering.

Sounds pretty complicated, Jerry.

Think he had help?

[Colin Crow]

Colin

If Jarman and Norman did not go up to the 5th floor until 1220-1225, and Bonnie Ray Williams did not descend from the 6th floor to join them until after that, that can only mean BRW was present on the 6th floor, almost right on top of the Sniper's Nest, slightly before the motorcade passed at 1230.

How would Oswald have been able to re-arrange all of the boxes in the SN without BRW hearing or seeing him, as BRW was within spitting distance of the SN?

The departure of BRW is something we need to consider. Maybe best done in another thread. For now is there anyone who disagrees with the time of around 12.25 or perhaps a bit later for the arrival of Norman and Jarman on the 5th floor? If not perhaps we can move on.

[Colin Crow]

If Oswald was in the Sniper's Nest, couldn't he have seen Jarman and Norman on the street below? And wouldn't he know Jarman and Norman were together from them having arrived at the fifth-floor window together?

Was there some stretch in assuming they went up from the street and through the building together, including passing by the domino room?

It is not impossible Jerry. My read of their testimonies indicates that they stayed close to the entrance on the west side. Truly was initially on the east side near the mailboxes. Truly mentioned them leaving with  Givens, who went to another location near Record and Main. They went around the east side of the building and in the back entrance. Think someone in the SN probably needs to stick their head out the window and look down to observe that movement.

[Walt Cakebread]

It is not impossible Jerry. My read of their testimonies indicates that they stayed close to the entrance on the west side. Truly was initially on the east side near the mailboxes. Truly mentioned them leaving with  Givens, who went to another location near Record and Main. They went around the east side of the building and in the back entrance. Think someone in the SN probably needs to stick their head out the window and look down to observe that movement.

Think someone in the SN probably needs to stick their head out the window and look down to observe that movement.

No witness reported seeing anybody hanging precariously out of a window ........And even if Lee had been there dressed in light colored khaki clothes and hung out of that window how would he have known where Jarman and Norman were going and why would he have cared ??