There is only one remaining question

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Offline Eddie Haymaker

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Re: There is only one remaining question
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2018, 11:10:48 PM »
"It looked like the weapon of a dangerous assassin."

ahh No. It looks like the weapon of a fumbling amateur at best.

saying the same person who couldn't hit a sitting target (walker) pulled off that shooting job from the TSBD is inconsistent to say the least.

why?

The target - one was right wing, one was left.
The shooting - one is amateurish, one is world class.



Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: There is only one remaining question
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2018, 11:25:18 PM »
Not your belief alone. I agree, the iron sights were probably used by Oswald.
The company that sold the rifles testified that the scope was not zero sighted. It was just slapped on the rifle. For an extra cost of only about $ 5.00, they would be losing money with every sale if they zero sighted the scopes.
And why would a company executive testify that their product was worse than it really was? It would serve no purpose if they were just trying to implicate Oswald. If that was the case, they would say the scopes were sighted.
Oswald was trained in the Marines to use iron sights. He never was trained to use a scope. As far as we know he never had used a rifle with a scope before he got that rifle.
Oswald was trained to hit targets at 200 yards, 300 yards and 500 yards. And he was pretty good at it. He qualified as a sharpshooter, something most Marines were not about to do. He should be able to hit a person at 88 yards, the longest shot taken on November 22?


Why order a rifle with a scope? Why keep the scope once he discovered (from practice shots or missing General Walker) it was not zero sighted and not useful for aiming?
A possible reason is because he thought it looked cool. It looked like the weapon of a dangerous assassin. He might like to keep the scope on for the same reason he wanted to be photographed with the rifle wearing black. And take time to put on the same black sweater before appearing before the world press, and Jack Ruby. It is not always wise to be overly focused on image.
And he was a dangerous assassin. With an M-1 at 200, 300 and 500 yards at a stationary target. Or I would guess a Carcano at 200 yards at a stationary target. And even a moving target, with a Carcano, provided it was under 100 yards away and moving mostly directly away from him at 8 mph.
Curiously, the WC commission, most investigations and to this day, most LNers believe (I think) that the scope was probably used. This is the most significant error on the LN side.

He qualified as a sharpshooter, something most Marines were not about to do.

Perhaps you should check with the Marine Corps....  I believe you'll find that "Sharpshooter" designation is the MINIMUM qualification that is acceptable for a Marine recruit. 

Are you sure that you're not misspelling your name?  The I-O-T-  may be correct but I'm not sure about the preceding letters.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: There is only one remaining question
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2018, 11:47:20 PM »
Not your belief alone. I agree, the iron sights were probably used by Oswald.
The company that sold the rifles testified that the scope was not zero sighted. It was just slapped on the rifle. For an extra cost of only about $ 5.00, they would be losing money with every sale if they zero sighted the scopes.
And why would a company executive testify that their product was worse than it really was? It would serve no purpose if they were just trying to implicate Oswald. If that was the case, they would say the scopes were sighted.
Oswald was trained in the Marines to use iron sights. He never was trained to use a scope. As far as we know he never had used a rifle with a scope before he got that rifle.
Oswald was trained to hit targets at 200 yards, 300 yards and 500 yards. And he was pretty good at it. He qualified as a sharpshooter, something most Marines were not about to do. He should be able to hit a person at 88 yards, the longest shot taken on November 22?
Why order a rifle with a scope? Why keep the scope once he discovered (from practice shots or missing General Walker) it was not zero sighted and not useful for aiming?
A possible reason is because he thought it looked cool. It looked like the weapon of a dangerous assassin. He might like to keep the scope on for the same reason he wanted to be photographed with the rifle wearing black. And take time to put on the same black sweater before appearing before the world press, and Jack Ruby. It is not always wise to be overly focused on image.
And he was a dangerous assassin. With an M-1 at 200, 300 and 500 yards at a stationary target. Or I would guess a Carcano at 200 yards at a stationary target. And even a moving target, with a Carcano, provided it was under 100 yards away and moving mostly directly away from him at 8 mph.
Curiously, the WC commission, most investigations and to this day, most LNers believe (I think) that the scope was probably used. This is the most significant error on the LN side.

Why keep the scope once he discovered (from practice shots or missing General Walker) it was not zero sighted and not useful for aiming?
A possible reason is because he thought it looked cool. It looked like the weapon of a dangerous assassin.


Yes you're right..."It looked like the weapon of a dangerous assassin."  And that's exactly what the cretins who were setting Lee up thought....  Grandma, what a dangerous looking rifle you have....Yes, it's all the better to mislead you with, my dear...

You LNer's love fairy tales...  So I'm sure you'll remember Little Red Ridinghood.....

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: There is only one remaining question
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2018, 12:04:31 AM »
Perhaps you should check with the Marine Corps....  I believe you'll find that "Sharpshooter" designation is the minimum qualification that is acceptable for a Marine recruit. 

I thought that was Marksman.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: There is only one remaining question
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2018, 01:10:13 AM »
I thought that was Marksman.
Marksman is the lowest rating...and it is unacceptable in the Marine corps....A recruit cannot graduate from boot camp with less than a Sharpshooter rating. 

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: There is only one remaining question
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2018, 05:45:24 AM »
He qualified as a sharpshooter, something most Marines were not about to do.

Perhaps you should check with the Marine Corps....  I believe you'll find that "Sharpshooter" designation is the minimum qualification that is acceptable for a Marine recruit. 
 
The three Marine categories are:
1.   Marksman (lowest)
2.   Sharpshooter (medium)
3.   Expert (expert)
In 1956, Oswald qualified as ?Sharpshooter?, the medium category. The same category as another Marine, Charles Whitman, who went crazy and killed about 16 people with a rifle in 1966. The longest range was over 400 yards. Like Oswald, it had been about 7 years since he had received his Marine training.
Most Marines only qualify at the lowest rating, ?Marksman?, which is still very good. One must still prove one is accurate at 200, 300 and 500 yards. In 1959, without retraining, Oswald scored as ?Marksman? which is a good score, although run of the mill for a Marine.
Maybe you should be the one to go check your facts and review the shooting categories of being a Marine.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 05:59:20 AM by Joe Elliott »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: There is only one remaining question
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2018, 05:53:06 AM »

Oswald was trained to hit targets at 200 yards, 300 yards and 500 yards. And he was pretty good at it. He qualified as a sharpshooter, something most Marines were not about to do. He should be able to hit a person at 88 yards, the longest shot taken on November 22?
 
Yeah, in 1956.  Cherry-pick much?
 
Charles Whitman in 1966, killed 16 people, the longest from a range of over 400 yards. Like Oswald, he had qualified as a Marine ?Sharpshooter? seven years earlier. And Whitman used a rifle he had just purchased that day and had never used before and was unfamiliar with.

Question:
Does it being seven years since Oswald had received his rifle training mean he was no longer accurate by 1963?