The autopsy.. 55 years later

[Jack Trojan]

Marty, calm down. I did not just outright dismiss the claims of the persons mentioned in your post. What I did was to weigh the evidence and make the decision that the trained pathologist who most closely examined the body had to have a better view than the others. Would you not agree with that?

Humes was a conspirator. Burned his notes. Performed post-mortem surgery on JFK. etc., his testimony was not reliable and should have been stricken from the records.
 

As to the Jenkins video, I think he's full of crap. He believes in the casket switching nonsense that not even Robert Groden accepts. Kennedy's casket was accompanied by several persons throughout the entire episode from Parkland Hospital to when it arrived at the morgue in Bethesda Hospital and the body was removed and placed on the morgue's metal table while being viewed by Dr's Humes and Boswell.

Who were those "persons" who accompanied JFK's "casket" are you talking about? And how did they know whether or not JFK was in it?

Mr. SPECTER - Yes; would you like to start with the neck wound?
Commander HUMES - All right, sir.
I might preface my remarks by stating that the President's body was received in our morgue in a closed casket. We opened the casket, Dr. Boswell and I, and the President's body was unclothed in the casket, was wrapped in a sheet labeled by the Parkland Hospital, but he was unclothed once the sheet was removed from his body so we do not have at that time any clothing.

Humes was a conspirator. Burned his notes. Performed post-mortem surgery on JFK. etc., his testimony was not reliable and should have been stricken from the records.

Jenkins goes on to state there was a shot from the front to JFK's throat and that it came from the triple underpass. He goes on to make more embarrassing remarks that the wound to the back only penetrated a few inches. I also believe he caught himself just in time to amend his observation of the rear entry shot when he quickly switched the location from up in the rear of the head to the lower part of the rear of the head, much as Humes  described and which the X-Rays prove the Dr's observation to be wrong. I believe Dr. Humes would agree as he indicated in his testimony before the WC and later affirmed during his testimony before the HSCA that X-Ray and photographs taken previous to and during the autopsy where of the upmost importance in making an accurate description of the wounds to JFK's head and upper torso when writing his autopsy report.

Providing that Humes, the X-rays, autopsy photos, etc. are legit, then I agree. But the whole frickin point here is that they weren't legit for the reasons Jenkins provides. For example, you need to put yourself in JFK's position and show us how the Magic Bullet worked. Get in-between 2 lasers pointed at each other, -17 deg from horizontal and show your body position that matches JFK's entrance/exit wounds and shove it down the CT's throats. You can bet your arse that every LNer that has tried, has failed, otherwise, they would have posted their results faster than a speeding MB! This speaks volumes, IMO.

After Dr. Humes saw the enlarged photographs and X-Rays during his HSCA testimony he changed his opinion of the location of the entry wound to the head to conform with the observations made by Dr. Baden but indicated he had trouble accepting the HSCA Forensic Panel's observation of a difference of 10 cm between his reported location of the entry wound to the rear of the head and that of the panels.

Here is one of the "shots" that was advocated by Jenkins:



Makes sense to me considering way too many Bethesda hospital staff members described a gaping hole in the posterior of JFK's head.

WC testimony of Dr. Humes

[BS]

Humes was a conspirator. Burned his notes. Performed post-mortem surgery on JFK. etc., his testimony was not reliable and should have been stricken from the records.

[Oscar Navarro]

Marty, calm down. I did not just outright dismiss the claims of the persons mentioned in your post. What I did was to weigh the evidence and make the decision that the trained pathologist who most closely examined the body had to have a better view than the others. Would you not agree with that?

Actually no, I wouldn't. Jenkins and O'Connor were assistants of the three men doing the autopsy and got just as close to the body as them. Floyd Reibe and Jerrol Custer took X-rays of the President's body. They were moving him around and also had a good view of the body. You don't need to be a doctor to see where the wounds are located!

As to the Jenkins video, I think he's full of crap. He believes in the casket switching nonsense that not even Robert Groden accepts. Kennedy's casket was accompanied by several persons throughout the entire episode from Parkland Hospital to when it arrived at the morgue in Bethesda Hospital and the body was removed and placed on the morgue's metal table while being viewed by Dr's Humes and Boswell.

I couldn't care less what Groden accepts or not. Why did you even bring him up? Were you saying; "Groden doesn't believe it, so neither should you"? I hope not because that would be a very weak argument to make. Anyway, the fact remains that in the video Jenkins confirms the arrival of the body in a shipping casket at 6.35 pm, which is also what Paul O'Connor and Dennis David said. The latter also confirms that Jerrol Custer had already made X-rays of the body and was on his way to get more film when Jackie arrived with the grey ambulance. Sibert & O'Neil wrote in their report that they heard one of the doctors (don't remember which one) remark that there seemed to have been surgery to the head. Jenkins confirms that he saw that surgical cut also. Jenkins, O'Connor, O'Neill and Tom Robinson all confirm the location of the wound at the back of the head.

It's easy to say that one person is full of crap, but here you have at least seven persons, who were all present at Bethesda, basically all telling parts of the same story and corroborating eachother on key points... Just how many people need to say the same things before you stop dismissing them as being full of crap?

Either all of these people got together and for no reason whatsoever decided to tell the same lies or something was going on at Bethesda, would you not agree?

When you claim to be an honest investigator, you can not simply dismiss these people as being full of crap. You really need to explain why the story these people and others have been telling (some still do to this day), does not justify the conclusion that something very untoward was happening at Bethesda.

Have a look at this video of Dennis David speaking in 2016;

Tell me what you think. Is he full of crap also?

Marty, calm down. I did not just outright dismiss the claims of the persons mentioned in your post. What I did was to weigh the evidence and make the decision that the trained pathologist who most closely examined the body had to have a better view than the others. Would you not agree with that?

Actually no, I wouldn't. Jenkins and O'Connor were assistants of the three men doing the autopsy and got just as close to the body as them. Floyd Reibe and Jerrol Custer took X-rays of the President's body. They were moving him around and also had a good view of the body. You don't need to be a doctor to see where the wounds are located!



Jenkins and O'Connor and Reibe and Custer can say whatever the heck they want, it doesn't make it true. Dr. Ebersol is the only person that I've seen that was taking X-Rays (perhaps I missed something) and he's the one that actually held JFK's head for Stringer to photograph. There's nothing in Ebersol's testimony that even hints at the possibility of corroborating Jenkin's account, let alone O'Connor's. As to Siebert there's this account found in Bugliosis book


"In an October 24, 1978 affidavit to the HSCA, Agent James Sibert wrote, "When the body was first observed on the autopsy table, it was thought by the doctors that surgery had possibly been performed in the head area and such was reflected in my notes at the time. However, this was determined not to be correct following a detailed inspection."


So, this theory and claims about a surgery performed on JFK's brain before he arrived at Bethesda Hospital is  Just think about it. When and were could this surgery have been performed? It's ridiculous. Even Dr. Wecht agreed that it was impoossible.

As to the Jenkins video, I think he's full of crap. He believes in the casket switching nonsense that not even Robert Groden accepts. Kennedy's casket was accompanied by several persons throughout the entire episode from Parkland Hospital to when it arrived at the morgue in Bethesda Hospital and the body was removed and placed on the morgue's metal table while being viewed by Dr's Humes and Boswell.

I couldn't care less what Groden accepts or not. Why did you even bring him up? Were you saying; "Groden doesn't believe it, so neither should you"? I hope not because that would be a very weak argument to make. Anyway, the fact remains that in the video Jenkins confirms the arrival of the body in a shipping casket at 6.35 pm, which is also what Paul O'Connor and Dennis David said. The latter also confirms that Jerrol Custer had already made X-rays of the body and was on his way to get more film when Jackie arrived with the grey ambulance. Sibert & O'Neil wrote in their report that they heard one of the doctors (don't remember which one) remark that there seemed to have been surgery to the head. Jenkins confirms that he saw that surgical cut also. Jenkins, O'Connor, O'Neill and Tom Robinson all confirm the location of the wound at the back of the head.


I brought up Groden because even a far out CTer like him sees that it's  Dr. Wecht sees it the same way too. But, no. The body arrived prior to the hearst that carried JFK's body and Jackie. Doesn't matter that it's absolutely impossible for JFK's body to have been switched as it was under constant observation throughout the trip.

It's easy to say that one person is full of crap, but here you have at least seven persons, who were all present at Bethesda, basically all telling parts of the same story and corroborating eachother on key points... Just how many people need to say the same things before you stop dismissing them as being full of crap?

Either all of these people got together and for no reason whatsoever decided to tell the same lies or something was going on at Bethesda, would you not agree?

When you claim to be an honest investigator, you can not simply dismiss these people as being full of crap. You really need to explain why the story these people and others have been telling (some still do to this day), does not justify the conclusion that something very untoward was happening at Bethesda.


I'm sorry, Marty. Their story just doesn't add up. Nothing that I have come across so far makes me believe that something sinister was going on at Bethesda.

[Oscar Navarro]

      You continue to avoid answering the Obvious. If Knudsen's claims were pure "craziness": (1) Why did the HSCA subpoena him to testify, and (2) Why did the HSCA SEAL his testimony?

It's not obvious to me.

[Martin Weidmann]

Marty, calm down. I did not just outright dismiss the claims of the persons mentioned in your post. What I did was to weigh the evidence and make the decision that the trained pathologist who most closely examined the body had to have a better view than the others. Would you not agree with that?

Actually no, I wouldn't. Jenkins and O'Connor were assistants of the three men doing the autopsy and got just as close to the body as them. Floyd Reibe and Jerrol Custer took X-rays of the President's body. They were moving him around and also had a good view of the body. You don't need to be a doctor to see where the wounds are located!


Jenkins and O'Connor and Reibe and Custer can say whatever the heck they want, it doesn't make it true. Dr. Ebersol is the only person that I've seen that was taking X-Rays (perhaps I missed something) and he's the one that actually held JFK's head for Stringer to photograph. There's nothing in Ebersol's testimony that even hints at the possibility of corroborating Jenkin's account, let alone O'Connor's.

Jenkins and O'Connor and Reibe and Custer can say whatever the heck they want, it doesn't make it true.

So, they are all four liars with no obvious reason to lie who just happen to corroborate eachother and tell more or less the same story? Really?

As to Siebert there's this account found in Bugliosis book

"In an October 24, 1978 affidavit to the HSCA, Agent James Sibert wrote, "When the body was first observed on the autopsy table, it was thought by the doctors that surgery had possibly been performed in the head area and such was reflected in my notes at the time. However, this was determined not to be correct following a detailed inspection."

Who determined it not to be correct? Sibert? Or was he just told it had been a mistake?

So, this theory and claims about a surgery performed on JFK's brain before he arrived at Bethesda Hospital is  Just think about it. When and were could this surgery have been performed? It's ridiculous. Even Dr. Wecht agreed that it was impoossible.

I have no idea where it would have happened.  I'm not even claiming it happened. All I've done is provide evidence to see how you would deal with it. Now I know, you just dismiss it outright.

As to the Jenkins video, I think he's full of crap. He believes in the casket switching nonsense that not even Robert Groden accepts. Kennedy's casket was accompanied by several persons throughout the entire episode from Parkland Hospital to when it arrived at the morgue in Bethesda Hospital and the body was removed and placed on the morgue's metal table while being viewed by Dr's Humes and Boswell.

I couldn't care less what Groden accepts or not. Why did you even bring him up? Were you saying; "Groden doesn't believe it, so neither should you"? I hope not because that would be a very weak argument to make. Anyway, the fact remains that in the video Jenkins confirms the arrival of the body in a shipping casket at 6.35 pm, which is also what Paul O'Connor and Dennis David said. The latter also confirms that Jerrol Custer had already made X-rays of the body and was on his way to get more film when Jackie arrived with the grey ambulance. Sibert & O'Neil wrote in their report that they heard one of the doctors (don't remember which one) remark that there seemed to have been surgery to the head. Jenkins confirms that he saw that surgical cut also. Jenkins, O'Connor, O'Neill and Tom Robinson all confirm the location of the wound at the back of the head.

I brought up Groden because even a far out CTer like him sees that it's  Dr. Wecht sees it the same way too. But, no. The body arrived prior to the hearst that carried JFK's body and Jackie. Doesn't matter that it's absolutely impossible for JFK's body to have been switched as it was under constant observation throughout the trip.

Well, if that's true, you've got a large number people of lying about the same thing for no obvious reason. Why would they do that, do you think?

It's easy to say that one person is full of crap, but here you have at least seven persons, who were all present at Bethesda, basically all telling parts of the same story and corroborating eachother on key points... Just how many people need to say the same things before you stop dismissing them as being full of crap?

Either all of these people got together and for no reason whatsoever decided to tell the same lies or something was going on at Bethesda, would you not agree?

When you claim to be an honest investigator, you can not simply dismiss these people as being full of crap. You really need to explain why the story these people and others have been telling (some still do to this day), does not justify the conclusion that something very untoward was happening at Bethesda.

I'm sorry, Marty. Their story just doesn't add up. Nothing that I have come across so far makes me believe that something sinister was going on at Bethesda.

But it adds up to you that these people would get together, without obvious reason, and decide to tell (parts of) the same story? Seems to me that something else is holding you back from looking at this information with an open mind.

[Oscar Navarro]

Humes was a conspirator. Burned his notes. Performed post-mortem surgery on JFK. etc., his testimony was not reliable and should have been stricken from the records.
 
Who were those "persons" who accompanied JFK's "casket" are you talking about? And how did they know whether or not JFK was in it?

Humes was a conspirator. Burned his notes. Performed post-mortem surgery on JFK. etc., his testimony was not reliable and should have been stricken from the records.

Providing that Humes, the X-rays, autopsy photos, etc. are legit, then I agree. But the whole frickin point here is that they weren't legit for the reasons Jenkins provides. For example, you need to put yourself in JFK's position and show us how the Magic Bullet worked. Get in-between 2 lasers pointed at each other, -17 deg from horizontal and show your body position that matches JFK's entrance/exit wounds and shove it down the CT's throats. You can bet your arse that every LNer that has tried, has failed, otherwise, they would have posted their results faster than a speeding MB! This speaks volumes, IMO.



Here is one of the "shots" that was advocated by Jenkins:



Makes sense to me considering way too many Bethesda hospital staff members described a gaping hole in the posterior of JFK's head.

Humes was a conspirator. Burned his notes. Performed post-mortem surgery on JFK. etc., his testimony was not reliable and should have been stricken from the records.

Humes was a conspirator. Burned his notes. Performed post-mortem surgery on JFK. etc., his testimony was not reliable and should have been stricken from the records.



Gosh, I wonder what could have been in those notes that Boswell, Finck or Ebersol would not have been privy to.

Who were those "persons" who accompanied JFK's "casket" are you talking about? And how did they know whether or not JFK was in it?


There was a boatload of people that accompanied the casket from Parkland to Bethesda. Too numerous to name and I'm not going to go do a search just to satisfy your curiosity. How do you know JFK was not in the casket? When and how could his body have been switched?

Providing that Humes, the X-rays, autopsy photos, etc. are legit, then I agree. But the whole frickin point here is that they weren't legit for the reasons Jenkins provides. For example, you need to put yourself in JFK's position and show us how the Magic Bullet worked. Get in-between 2 lasers pointed at each other, -17 deg from horizontal and show your body position that matches JFK's entrance/exit wounds and shove it down the CT's throats. You can bet your arse that every LNer that has tried, has failed, otherwise, they would have posted their results faster than a speeding MB! This speaks volumes, IMO.



Let's see. JFK's body was switched before the grey hearst arrived at Bethesda. All of the doctors, SSA, FBI agents, JFK's staff, LBJ and even Jackie were in on the conspiracy. The Parkland doctors and the staff were also in since they could have been the ones who performed the initial cranial surgery. Robert Kennedy was also in on the conspiracy or the coverup since the X-Rays and photos were for a time in his possession. I'll stop here as there's enough beans to make a burrito.


For starters, for that picture to make more sense the downward angle of the street must be taken into the equation. Then at least put JBC in the picture.

Here is one of the "shots" that was advocated by Jenkins:



Bye, bye Jackie.

Makes sense to me considering way too many Bethesda hospital staff members described a gaping hole in the posterior of JFK's head.




So the Zapruder film is also a fake.

[Bill Brown]

CYA comments by the doctors? It's funny that the people who took the photos said that they aren't the ones they took, at the autopsy. What is your opinion on the Jenkins video, Bill?

It's funny that the people who took the photos said that they aren't the ones they took, at the autopsy.

Can you quote Stringer (autopsy photographer) saying that the photos were not the ones he took?

What is your opinion on the Jenkins video, Bill?

I haven't watched it.

[Jack Trojan]

Gosh, I wonder what could have been in those notes that Boswell, Finck or Ebersol would not have been privy to.

Newbie?

There was a boatload of people that accompanied the casket from Parkland to Bethesda. Too numerous to name and I'm not going to go do a search just to satisfy your curiosity. How do you know JFK was not in the casket? When and how could his body have been switched?

Name even 1 of the boatload of people who knew JFK was in the casket. As far as switching the body goes...didn't you watch the video? You need to do more "video watching" instead of "winging it", IMO.

Let's see. JFK's body was switched before the grey hearst arrived at Bethesda.

No, this one is a no brainer. JFK was never placed in the ordained casket, he was placed in the casket that Jenkins and others described. Why would they lie?

All of the doctors, SSA, FBI agents, JFK's staff, LBJ and even Jackie were in on the conspiracy.

Huh?

The Parkland doctors and the staff were also in since they could have been the ones who performed the initial cranial surgery. Robert Kennedy was also in on the conspiracy or the coverup since the X-Rays and photos were for a time in his possession. I'll stop here as there's enough beans to make a burrito.

You need to do more research re your BS Burrito.

For starters, for that picture to make more sense the downward angle of the street must be taken into the equation.

It was, 6 degrees.

Then at least put JBC in the picture.

What for?

Here is one of the "shots" that was advocated by Jenkins:

Bye, bye Jackie.

Huh?

So the Zapruder film is also a fake.

No, just edited.