Lame LN excuses

[John Mytton]

I wasn't there, so why are you asking me?

Because you can't deal with this massive slip-up by the Davis girl.

But I do know there was a murder and two women who gave near identical accounts with the understandable difference here and there.

"understandable " -- LOL

They lived in the house so there's no way they would mistake the 10th St. door and the Patton side door. Virginia Davis suffered an epic meltdown when she had to recall the events while questioned by Belin, solid evidence of a kooked up narrative.

Hilarious, your deductive reasoning skills are worthless!, If you were familiar with the layout of the Davis corner house you'd realize that from the Patton street door she has NO view of the yard. "I saw the boy cutting across our yard and he was unloading his gun" Oops!
And your conclusion from your biased insanely flawed analysis is that Virginia suffered an epic meltdown and that this simple misunderstanding is solid evidence that the narrative was Kooked up!? You can't make up stupidity this stupid! Classic! LOL!

I saw the boy cutting across our yard and he was unloading his gun.
Affidavit: Mrs. Virginia Davis, 22nd November 1963



Mr. BELIN. You say, "The man that was unloading the gun was the same man that I saw tonight as No. 2 man in a lineup." Is that right?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Now, Mrs. Davis, on this statement, Virginia Davis Deposition Exhibit 2, it states that "We heard a shot and then another shot and ran to side door at Patton Street." You say that should have been the front door?
Mrs. DAVIS. That was supposed to be the front door.

Btw it's clear that you know your evidence is BS and that's why you talk in riddles and give the least amount of information as possible and you simply hope that no one investigates your lies, but guess what, I'm here for Truth and Justice and will keep you and your doppelgangers honest.

Mr Truth and Justice!
JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Is this Tag Team debating today?
I reply to Otto and Weidmann replies
I reply to Weidmann and Otto replies
I again reply to Otto and Weidmann replies?

JohnM

Ain't it fun?

Learned from the LNs

[Richard Smith]

Walt indicated that the jacket in evidence is not the one found because it was described as "white."

iirc it was described as being white during several radio calls, by different people.

Earlene Roberts was the ONLY witness to see Oswald at the boarding house.  So dismissing her testimony just because she was the only person who saw him is silly.

No more or less silly than to rely fully on that witness.

The reason not to instantly accept her testimony is not that she was the only witness at the roominghouse, but the fact that Buell Frazier testimony suggests that Oswald was wearing the grey jacket (CE 162) to Irving on Thursday evening and Otto has just shown us that Marina also confirmed that. There is no physical way for a jacket that was in Irving on Thursday evening to end up at North Beckley on Friday after noon. Which in turn justifies the question what jacket, if any, did Earlene Roberts really see?

We know from her testimony that she was blind in one eye and that she was concentrating on getting the TV to work, which means she would have been standing with her back turned to the living room. The walk from Oswald's room to the front door is a matter of seconds and if Roberts was looking at the TV she would probably only have seen him leaving as he reached the front door to go outside. All this justifies the conclusion that Roberts would only have seen Oswald for two or three seconds at best and she could easily have been mistaken about what he was wearing. Officer Baker was and he saw Oswald up close in the TSBD lunchroom and Whaley was, despite having Oswald sitting next to him in his cab. The testimony of Frazier and Marina clearly suggests that Roberts was indeed mistaken.

Does characterizing the jacket found as white preclude it from being the one placed in evidence or not?  Walt has suggested that because the jacket was described as "white" it cannot be the same one in evidence,  Do you agree or not?  In my opinion, that jacket could be reasonably described as white, gray, or even tan depending on the light or shade.

[Alan J. Ford]

I've been compiling a list of lame excuses that LNers make to "explain" away conflicting or contradictory evidence in this case.  Feel free to suggest any additions.

- Howard Brennan lied at the lineup because he was scared for his family.
- Howard Brennan had the ability to estimate a man's height and weight from seeing him in a crouched position from the chest up.
- Klein's mistakenly put February on a March deposit slip
- J. M. Poe forgot to mark the shells
- Studebaker accidentally didn't photograph the bag
- The police forgot to check Oswald's pockets for hours after he was arrested
- Buell Frazier was mistaken about the length of the package
- Linnie Mae Randle was mistaken about the length of the package
- Linnie Mae Randle could see through a wall
- Essie Mae Williams just didn't notice the bag Oswald was carrying
- Arnold Rowland was lying about seeing an elderly black man
- Arnold Rowland was lying about seeing two men on the sixth floor
- So was Carolyn Walther
- So was Ruby Henderson
- Amos Euins was mistaken about seeing a colored man in the sixth floor window
- Amos Euins was mistaken about seeing a man with a bald spot in the sixth floor window
- Jack Dougherty just didn't notice the bag Oswald was carrying
- Marina Oswald was mistaken about the camera viewfinder and how many pictures she took
- The bullet holes don't match because JFK's jacket was bunched
- The lower hole in the autopsy back photo is just a spot of blood
- In every interview and affidavit Charles Givens gave for over 4 months after the assassination he forgot the detail about going back to the sixth floor to get cigarettes and seeing Oswald there.
- Bonnie Ray Williams was mistaken when he said in his affidavit that he only heard two shots
- Carolyn Walther was mistaken about seeing a man with a brown sport coat
- Richard Randolph Carr was mistaken about seeing a man in a brown sport coat in an upper floor of the TSBD
- James Worrell was mistaken about seeing a man in a dark sports jacket run out the back of the building
- The first 6 officers on the 6th floor just didn't notice the long bag
- Helen Markham didn't understand the question 6 times
- The clock at Markham's washateria was slow
- T. F. Bowley's watch was slow
- Margie Higgins' clock was slow
- The clock at Memorial Hospital was slow
- Roger Craig was lying about seeing a Mauser
- Roger Craig was lying about seeing Oswald run down the hill and get into a Nash Rambler
- So was Marvin Robinson
- So was Mrs. James Forrester
- Ed Hoffman was lying about seeing two men behind the fence break down a rifle
- Gordon Arnold was lying about being on he grassy knoll during the assassination and shots being fired from behind him
- Rose Cheramie was lying about riding in a car with two men who told her that they were going to kill the president in Dallas in just a few days
- Acquilla Clemons was mistaken about seeing two men at the scene of Tippit shooting from her front porch, one who had a pistol and was waving the other man away, neither of whom resembled Oswald.
- Frank Wright was mistaken about seeing a man standing over Tippit after he was shot and then driving away in a gray, 1951 Plymouth coupe.
- Gerald Hill was mistaken about the shells being from an automatic .38
- Gerald Hill was mistaken about there being 3 shells in Benavides' cigarette packet
- Julia Ann Mercer was mistaken about seeing two men exit a green Ford truck with what looked like a gun case and carry it up the grassy knoll at about 10:50.
- Sam Holland was mistaken about seeing a puff of smoke come out from under trees on the grassy knoll
- Bernard Haire was lying about seeing police escort a man with a white pullover shirt from the rear of the Texas Theater
- Aletha Frair was lying about seeing Lee Oswald's driver's license
- So was Lee Bozarth
- Sylvia Odio was mistaken about Oswald visiting her apartment in Houston with two hispanic men in late September, 1963
- Annie Odio was also mistaken about the same thing
- Darrell Tomlinson was mistaken about which stretcher he found a bullet on
- O.P. Wright was mistaken about what the bullet looked like
- Bardwell Odum was mistaken when he said he never saw CE399 or showed it to anybody
- Earlene Roberts was mistaken about a police car stopping and honking while Oswald was in the rooming house
- Eugene Boone was mistaken about the Mauser
- Seymour Weitzman was mistaken about the Mauser
- Marrion Baker was mistaken about the 3rd or 4th floor suspect
- Victoria Adams was mistaken about when she went down the stairs
- Carolyn Arnold was mistaken about seeing Oswald in the second floor lunchroom at 12:25
- The Parkland doctors were all mistaken about the back of the head wound
- George Burkley was mistaken about the location of the back wound
- Sibert and O?Neill were mistaken about a back wound below the shoulders, a shallow back wound, and surgery to the head area
- Rosemary Willis was mistaken about a shot coming from the grassy knoll
- Jean Hill was lying about seeing a shooter on the grassy knoll
- Bill Newman was mistaken about a shot coming from directly behind him
- Nellie Connally was mistaken about seeing JFK reacting after the first shot
- John Connally was mistaken about which shot hit him
- John Connally had a "delayed reaction" from being struck in the chest by a bullet
- Jack Ruby was demented when he said "Everything pertaining to what's happening has never come to the surface. The world will never know the true facts of what occurred, my motives. The people who had so much to gain, and had such an ulterior motive for putting me in the position I'm in, will never let the true facts come above board to the world".
- Whaley didn't record his passenger times accurately
- Oswald forgot that he was carrying around an ID card with the name he used to purchase the guns he used that day
- Oswald just happened to have 5 wallets
- The other 7 firearms experts weren't as skilled as Nicol
- The other photography experts weren't as skilled as Kirk
- The other fingerprint experts weren't as skilled as Scalice's examination of photographs 30 years later
- The post office forgot to follow their own rules about PO box delivery
- Railway Express forgot to follow their own rules about delivery of weapons
- Louis Feldsott said that Klein's purchased C2766 in June, 1962, but he really meant February, 1963.
- The police didn't record interrogations in those days
- Carl Day forgot to tell the FBI about the palmprint
- Paraffin tests aren't reliable, except when they are
- Vince Drain wrote up two versions of the report on the paper bag characteristics before the results were determined so that he could just throw away the one that was incorrect.
- Dr. Shaw at Parkland just accidentally referred to a fragment in Connally's leg as a bullet
- Oswald snuck off from work in the morning when he was supposed to be working to walk to a post office over a mile away and back in order to go buy a money order and mail an order to Klein's and then falsified his timesheet and nobody noticed.
- The police just accidentally mistook a copper-jacketed 6.5mm bullet for a .30 caliber steel-jacketed bullet
- John Hurt got drunk and just tried to call Oswald in jail to express his outrage over what Oswald had done.  Actually, no, wait, the switchboard operator just made up the whole story.
- Joseph Milteer just made a lucky guess
- W.R. (Dub) Stark was mistaken about Tippit's phone call from the record shop
- So was Louis Cortinas
- Albert Bogard was lying about Oswald test driving a car
- So was Eugene Wilson
- So was Frank Rizzo
- Malcolm Price was mistaken about Oswald practicing at the Sports Drome Rifle Range
- So was Garland Slack
- Edith Whitworth was mistaken about the Oswalds coming in to the Furniture Mart and looking for a gun part
- Dial Ryder was lying about mounting a scope on an Argentinian rifle for a customer named Oswald
- Dr. Humes burned his autopsy notes because he didn't want the president's blood to fall into hands of people with peculiar ideas about the value of that type of material.  But he also burned a copy of the notes and a first draft report that had no blood on them, and he neglected to burn Boswell's autopsy notes, even though they did have blood on them.
- Seth Kantor was mistaken about seeing Jack Ruby at Parkland
- Butch Burroughs was lying when he said he sold popcorn to Oswald at 1:15
- Benavides thought the killer had a squared-off hairline because the guy's jacket collar was hiding the actual hairline
- Marina confused Nixon with LBJ (i.e. the Vice President) who was in Dallas in April '63.
- R.J. Gebelein from the Winchester-Western company really meant 1954 when he wrote to Stewart Galanor that their last production of the 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano cartridges was in 1944.
- Shirley Randall was mistaken about SS asking her to get "...someone to come and wash the blood out of the car"
- The SS had to remove blood spatter evidence to get the bubble top back on.
- The SS had to remove more blood spatter evidence so they could drive the car.

added by Rick McTague:
- Dr. Evalea Glanges lied when she stated that there was a "through and through bullet hole, front to back" in the windshield of the limo.
- Dr. Malcom Perry was either mistaken or lied when he told the press 3 times on 11/22/63 that the throat wound was an entrance wound.
- Lee Bowers lied about seeing the 3 cars entering and driving in the parking lot the 20 minutes before the shooting, the men inside them, the 2 men behind the fence, a flash of light, gun smoke and hearing the last 2 shots "almost on top of each other".
- Every person who said they smelled gunsmoke in the area after the shooting is lying.
- Richard C. Dodd was lying about gunsmoke coming from the top of the hedges at the top of the grassy knoll and footprints and cigarette butts behind the fence.
- J. C. Price (atop the Terminal Annex building) was lying about the shots coming from the area near the triple underpass and seeing a man running behind the fence, through the parking lot and behind the TSBD.
- James L. Simmons lied about seeing a puff of smoke from the wooden fence and hearing shots come from that area.
- Charles Brehm lied about the skull fragment from JFK's head fly back and to the left.
- Robert Vinson was lying about seeing LHO on the CIA flight out of Dallas to Roswell.

Exemplary research, Mr. Iacoletti, no great surprise considering the reliable source.

[Bill Brown]

Does characterizing the jacket found as white preclude it from being the one placed in evidence or not?  Walt has suggested that because the jacket was described as "white" it cannot be the same one in evidence,  Do you agree or not?  In my opinion, that jacket could be reasonably described as white, gray, or even tan depending on the light or shade.

Richard, when they resort to arguing white versus grey, well, you know they've lost the argument.  They know it, too... or they wouldn't argue such a lame non-issue.

[Bill Chapman]

I've been compiling a list of lame excuses that LNers make to "explain" away conflicting or contradictory evidence in this case.  Feel free to suggest any additions.

- Howard Brennan lied at the lineup because he was scared for his family.
- Howard Brennan had the ability to estimate a man's height and weight from seeing him in a crouched position from the chest up.
- Klein's mistakenly put February on a March deposit slip
- J. M. Poe forgot to mark the shells
- Studebaker accidentally didn't photograph the bag
- The police forgot to check Oswald's pockets for hours after he was arrested
- Buell Frazier was mistaken about the length of the package
- Linnie Mae Randle was mistaken about the length of the package
- Linnie Mae Randle could see through a wall
- Essie Mae Williams just didn't notice the bag Oswald was carrying
- Arnold Rowland was lying about seeing an elderly black man
- Arnold Rowland was lying about seeing two men on the sixth floor
- So was Carolyn Walther
- So was Ruby Henderson
- Amos Euins was mistaken about seeing a colored man in the sixth floor window
- Amos Euins was mistaken about seeing a man with a bald spot in the sixth floor window
- Jack Dougherty just didn't notice the bag Oswald was carrying
- Marina Oswald was mistaken about the camera viewfinder and how many pictures she took
- The bullet holes don't match because JFK's jacket was bunched
- The lower hole in the autopsy back photo is just a spot of blood
- In every interview and affidavit Charles Givens gave for over 4 months after the assassination he forgot the detail about going back to the sixth floor to get cigarettes and seeing Oswald there.
- Bonnie Ray Williams was mistaken when he said in his affidavit that he only heard two shots
- Carolyn Walther was mistaken about seeing a man with a brown sport coat
- Richard Randolph Carr was mistaken about seeing a man in a brown sport coat in an upper floor of the TSBD
- James Worrell was mistaken about seeing a man in a dark sports jacket run out the back of the building
- The first 6 officers on the 6th floor just didn't notice the long bag
- Helen Markham didn't understand the question 6 times
- The clock at Markham's washateria was slow
- T. F. Bowley's watch was slow
- Margie Higgins' clock was slow
- The clock at Memorial Hospital was slow
- Roger Craig was lying about seeing a Mauser
- Roger Craig was lying about seeing Oswald run down the hill and get into a Nash Rambler
- So was Marvin Robinson
- So was Mrs. James Forrester
- Ed Hoffman was lying about seeing two men behind the fence break down a rifle
- Gordon Arnold was lying about being on he grassy knoll during the assassination and shots being fired from behind him
- Rose Cheramie was lying about riding in a car with two men who told her that they were going to kill the president in Dallas in just a few days
- Acquilla Clemons was mistaken about seeing two men at the scene of Tippit shooting from her front porch, one who had a pistol and was waving the other man away, neither of whom resembled Oswald.
- Frank Wright was mistaken about seeing a man standing over Tippit after he was shot and then driving away in a gray, 1951 Plymouth coupe.
- Gerald Hill was mistaken about the shells being from an automatic .38
- Gerald Hill was mistaken about there being 3 shells in Benavides' cigarette packet
- Julia Ann Mercer was mistaken about seeing two men exit a green Ford truck with what looked like a gun case and carry it up the grassy knoll at about 10:50.
- Sam Holland was mistaken about seeing a puff of smoke come out from under trees on the grassy knoll
- Bernard Haire was lying about seeing police escort a man with a white pullover shirt from the rear of the Texas Theater
- Aletha Frair was lying about seeing Lee Oswald's driver's license
- So was Lee Bozarth
- Sylvia Odio was mistaken about Oswald visiting her apartment in Houston with two hispanic men in late September, 1963
- Annie Odio was also mistaken about the same thing
- Darrell Tomlinson was mistaken about which stretcher he found a bullet on
- O.P. Wright was mistaken about what the bullet looked like
- Bardwell Odum was mistaken when he said he never saw CE399 or showed it to anybody
- Earlene Roberts was mistaken about a police car stopping and honking while Oswald was in the rooming house
- Eugene Boone was mistaken about the Mauser
- Seymour Weitzman was mistaken about the Mauser
- Marrion Baker was mistaken about the 3rd or 4th floor suspect
- Victoria Adams was mistaken about when she went down the stairs
- Carolyn Arnold was mistaken about seeing Oswald in the second floor lunchroom at 12:25
- The Parkland doctors were all mistaken about the back of the head wound
- George Burkley was mistaken about the location of the back wound
- Sibert and O?Neill were mistaken about a back wound below the shoulders, a shallow back wound, and surgery to the head area
- Rosemary Willis was mistaken about a shot coming from the grassy knoll
- Jean Hill was lying about seeing a shooter on the grassy knoll
- Bill Newman was mistaken about a shot coming from directly behind him
- Nellie Connally was mistaken about seeing JFK reacting after the first shot
- John Connally was mistaken about which shot hit him
- John Connally had a "delayed reaction" from being struck in the chest by a bullet
- Jack Ruby was demented when he said "Everything pertaining to what's happening has never come to the surface. The world will never know the true facts of what occurred, my motives. The people who had so much to gain, and had such an ulterior motive for putting me in the position I'm in, will never let the true facts come above board to the world".
- Whaley didn't record his passenger times accurately
- Oswald forgot that he was carrying around an ID card with the name he used to purchase the guns he used that day
- Oswald just happened to have 5 wallets
- The other 7 firearms experts weren't as skilled as Nicol
- The other photography experts weren't as skilled as Kirk
- The other fingerprint experts weren't as skilled as Scalice's examination of photographs 30 years later
- The post office forgot to follow their own rules about PO box delivery
- Railway Express forgot to follow their own rules about delivery of weapons
- Louis Feldsott said that Klein's purchased C2766 in June, 1962, but he really meant February, 1963.
- The police didn't record interrogations in those days
- Carl Day forgot to tell the FBI about the palmprint
- Paraffin tests aren't reliable, except when they are
- Vince Drain wrote up two versions of the report on the paper bag characteristics before the results were determined so that he could just throw away the one that was incorrect.
- Dr. Shaw at Parkland just accidentally referred to a fragment in Connally's leg as a bullet
- Oswald snuck off from work in the morning when he was supposed to be working to walk to a post office over a mile away and back in order to go buy a money order and mail an order to Klein's and then falsified his timesheet and nobody noticed.
- The police just accidentally mistook a copper-jacketed 6.5mm bullet for a .30 caliber steel-jacketed bullet
- John Hurt got drunk and just tried to call Oswald in jail to express his outrage over what Oswald had done.  Actually, no, wait, the switchboard operator just made up the whole story.
- Joseph Milteer just made a lucky guess
- W.R. (Dub) Stark was mistaken about Tippit's phone call from the record shop
- So was Louis Cortinas
- Albert Bogard was lying about Oswald test driving a car
- So was Eugene Wilson
- So was Frank Rizzo
- Malcolm Price was mistaken about Oswald practicing at the Sports Drome Rifle Range
- So was Garland Slack
- Edith Whitworth was mistaken about the Oswalds coming in to the Furniture Mart and looking for a gun part
- Dial Ryder was lying about mounting a scope on an Argentinian rifle for a customer named Oswald
- Dr. Humes burned his autopsy notes because he didn't want the president's blood to fall into hands of people with peculiar ideas about the value of that type of material.  But he also burned a copy of the notes and a first draft report that had no blood on them, and he neglected to burn Boswell's autopsy notes, even though they did have blood on them.
- Seth Kantor was mistaken about seeing Jack Ruby at Parkland
- Butch Burroughs was lying when he said he sold popcorn to Oswald at 1:15
- Benavides thought the killer had a squared-off hairline because the guy's jacket collar was hiding the actual hairline
- Marina confused Nixon with LBJ (i.e. the Vice President) who was in Dallas in April '63.
- R.J. Gebelein from the Winchester-Western company really meant 1954 when he wrote to Stewart Galanor that their last production of the 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano cartridges was in 1944.
- Shirley Randall was mistaken about SS asking her to get "...someone to come and wash the blood out of the car"
- The SS had to remove blood spatter evidence to get the bubble top back on.
- The SS had to remove more blood spatter evidence so they could drive the car.

added by Rick McTague:
- Dr. Evalea Glanges lied when she stated that there was a "through and through bullet hole, front to back" in the windshield of the limo.
- Dr. Malcom Perry was either mistaken or lied when he told the press 3 times on 11/22/63 that the throat wound was an entrance wound.
- Lee Bowers lied about seeing the 3 cars entering and driving in the parking lot the 20 minutes before the shooting, the men inside them, the 2 men behind the fence, a flash of light, gun smoke and hearing the last 2 shots "almost on top of each other".
- Every person who said they smelled gunsmoke in the area after the shooting is lying.
- Richard C. Dodd was lying about gunsmoke coming from the top of the hedges at the top of the grassy knoll and footprints and cigarette butts behind the fence.
- J. C. Price (atop the Terminal Annex building) was lying about the shots coming from the area near the triple underpass and seeing a man running behind the fence, through the parking lot and behind the TSBD.
- James L. Simmons lied about seeing a puff of smoke from the wooden fence and hearing shots come from that area.
- Charles Brehm lied about the skull fragment from JFK's head fly back and to the left.
- Robert Vinson was lying about seeing LHO on the CIA flight out of Dallas to Roswell.

 

[Martin Weidmann]

Richard, when they resort to arguing white versus grey, well, you know they've lost the argument.  They know it, too... or they wouldn't argue such a lame non-issue.

When the LNs fail to explain how Oswald's grey jacket (CE162), that according to Marina's and Buell Frazier's testimony, was in Irving on Thusday night could end up at the North Beckley roominghouse on Friday at 1PM, you know they haven't got any kind of credible argument to make about the jacket whether it was white or grey.