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Author Topic: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)  (Read 1253 times)

Offline Rob Caprio

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Disclaimer: I will no longer respond to any posts that are off topic and/or meant to derail the issue of the opening post. This should not be taken as me running, but instead seen as me keeping the topic on track.

I have no issue with any WC defender, therefore, I am happy to discuss the case in a manner that uses the actual evidence with them. IF the WC was correct in their final conclusion as they claim then this should be no problem for them.

I will not participate in any personal discussions with them as these are meant to distract and discredit instead of focusing on the JFK assassination. I come here to discuss and learn about the JFK assassination and nothing more.
No more games with the LNers. The LNers have to to discuss the WC's, HSCA's and ARRB's evidence or move along.

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The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) assassinated President John F. Kennedy (JFK) and killed Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit (JDT) on November 22, 1963. They further claimed that LHO was tracked to the Texas Theater (TT) and arrested because he was a suspect in the JDT murder.

As we have seen previously in this series there was absolutely no evidence that tied LHO to the JDT murder and certainly there couldn't have been any this soon after the shooting. What made the Dallas Police Department (DPD) think that LHO was the killer when there had been no All Points Bulletin (A.P.B.) issued for him and no arrest warrant? It seems his big offences supposedly were ducking, running and “looking funny.”

We have covered the arrest of LHO before in this series so I do not intend to cover all that again in this post. The purpose of this post is to look at the FIRST version of the arrest of LHO by Officer N. M. McDonald (NMM) to see how it compares with the official story given to us by the WC.


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On November 24, 1963, Officer N.M. McDonald's first person account of what occurred on November 22 at the TT was published in the Dallas Morning News (DMN). It has things in it that we won't find in the final official story.

In the DMN published account NMM says that while he was driving towards the Oak Cliff area there was a police broadcast regarding a tip that a “man acting funny was holed up in the balcony of the Texas Theater. . . . The cashier at the picture show was the one who called in to say this guy was acting suspicious and hidden out in the balcony.” (N. M. McDonald, "Officer Recalls Oswald Capture," Dallas Morning News, November 24, 1963, p. 13)

The official story doesn't claim that LHO was in balcony, and yet, there were several police transmissions saying that the “suspect” (again, how does ducking, running and looking “funny” make you a suspect in a cop killing is beyond me) was in the balcony. The WC would get help from Julia Postal in making it seem like it was no big deal in going down from the balcony, but the main point is that the WCR doesn't mention this voyage to the balcony.


Mr. BALL. I was trying to say the third row. How could he get from the balcony down there?

Mrs. POSTAL. Oh, that is very easy. You can go up in the balcony and fight straight down, those steps come back down, and that would bring you into it. He wouldn't have to go by Butch at all.

Mr. BALL. Oh, I see. And he could get into the balcony without Butch's seeing him?

Mrs. POSTAL. Yes; if Butch was down in the other end getting something.

The next comment in NMM's story is very interesting.

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A man sitting near the front, and I still don't know who it was, tipped me the man I wanted was sitting in the third row from the rear, not in the balcony. (Ibid.)

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Who was this man? We don't know as thirteen of the fifteen people in the TT went undocumented. Luckily, as we have seen previously in this series, one of the two witnesses may have identified this very helpful man for us.

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At the time the Warren Commission had me down there at the Post Office in Dallas to get my statement, I was afraid to give it.  I gave everything up to the point of what I gave the police there in town....I'm a pretty nervous guy anyway because I'll you what: After I saw that magazine where all those people they said were connected with some of this had come up dead, it kind of made me keep a low profile....(Jack) Ruby was sitting down, just watching them.  And when Oswald pulled the gun and snapped it at (McDonald's) head and missed and the darned thing wouldn't fire, that is when I tapped him on the shoulder and told him he had better move because those guns were waving around. He just turned around and looked at me.  He then turned around and started watching them. (Jim Marrs, Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy, p. 352)

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If it was Jack Ruby who directed the police to LHO we can certainly see why the WC would want to alter this by claiming that it was Johnny Brewer who did this instead.

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Brewer met McDonald and the other policeman at the alley exit door, stepped out onto the stage them and pointed out the man who had come into the theater without paying. The man was Oswald.. (WCR, 178)

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We have covered Jack Ruby’s movements on November 22-24, 1963, before in this series and they showed that he was keeping tabs on LHO. Why would it be out of the question that he would be at the TT? This is speculation on my part (it has to be since the official investigation was so horrible) – perhaps Ruby told LHO to meet him there? We will never know for sure, but we can certainly understand why the WC could NOT tell us that the man who led the police to LHO in the TT was the SAME man who would gun him down two days later! Enter Johnny Brewer.

NMM's story then drops a bombshell on us.


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I went up the aisle, and talked to two people sitting about in the middle. I was crouching low and holding my gun in case any trouble came.
I saw him going for his gun and I grabbed him around the waist. (Ibid.)

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This is HUGE as it shows that according to NMM he had his gun already DRAWN when he reached LHO. Was LHO either suicidal or Chuck Norris? Why in the world would LHO even attempt to hit NMM or draw his own alleged pistol when NMM already had his gun DRAWN? This one point sinks the whole WC conclusion regarding what happened at the time of LHO's arrest.

This would explain why LHO was heard to be saying that he was NOT resisting arrest as seeing a cop coming towards you with a gun in his hand pointing at you would scare any normal person.

The whole story of NMM later on is contrived to make it appear that the DPD had a reason to arrest LHO when they really didn't. Even Scotland Yard couldn't have locked onto LHO so quickly even IF there was viable evidence pointing to him which of course there wasn't.

Since this account was published within days of the event it has to be considered to be the true version of events as the official narrative had not been invented yet. To say otherwise is to paint NMM and the DMN as liars.

We again see evidence in this post that illustrates that the WC’s conclusion is false, therefore, it is sunk once more.

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Offline Bob Prudhomme

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2018, 07:02:58 PM »
"At the time the Warren Commission had me down there at the Post Office in Dallas to get my statement, I was afraid to give it.  I gave everything up to the point of what I gave the police there in town....I'm a pretty nervous guy anyway because I'll you what: After I saw that magazine where all those people they said were connected with some of this had come up dead, it kind of made me keep a low profile....(Jack) Ruby was sitting down, just watching them.  And when Oswald pulled the gun and snapped it at (McDonald's) head and missed and the darned thing wouldn't fire, that is when I tapped him on the shoulder and told him he had better move because those guns were waving around. He just turned around and looked at me.  He then turned around and started watching them. (Jim Marrs, Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy, p. 352)"

Who is being quoted in this paragraph, Rob?

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2018, 07:02:58 PM »


Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2018, 10:11:13 PM »
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"At the time the Warren Commission had me down there at the Post Office in Dallas to get my statement, I was afraid to give it.  I gave everything up to the point of what I gave the police there in town....I'm a pretty nervous guy anyway because I'll you what: After I saw that magazine where all those people they said were connected with some of this had come up dead, it kind of made me keep a low profile....(Jack) Ruby was sitting down, just watching them.  And when Oswald pulled the gun and snapped it at (McDonald's) head and missed and the darned thing wouldn't fire, that is when I tapped him on the shoulder and told him he had better move because those guns were waving around. He just turned around and looked at me.  He then turned around and started watching them. (Jim Marrs, Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy, p. 352)"

Who is being quoted in this paragraph, Rob?

TT witness George Applin.

Offline Bob Prudhomme

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2018, 02:11:14 AM »
Was this from an interview Applin had with Jim Marrs?

"....(Jack) Ruby was sitting down, just watching them." Has this been paraphrased from a longer sentence? What place was Jack Ruby in that Applin was able to see him?

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 12:30:48 AM »
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Was this from an interview Applin had with Jim Marrs?

"....(Jack) Ruby was sitting down, just watching them." Has this been paraphrased from a longer sentence? What place was Jack Ruby in that Applin was able to see him?

Yes.

Offline Bob Prudhomme

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 07:39:48 AM »
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Yes.

Would you please elaborate a little on the Jack Ruby portion of the quote, and what you left out when you paraphrased the quote?

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 03:26:09 PM »
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Would you please elaborate a little on the Jack Ruby portion of the quote, and what you left out when you paraphrased the quote?

If memory serves (I.typed that many years ago) it was the way Marrs quoted it. Why don't you check the book? I don't paraphrase to cut things out. The cite is there so people can check out the source.

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 03:26:09 PM »


Offline Mark Ulrik

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2018, 04:27:51 PM »
According to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login book, the Applin quote is from a 1979 DMN article by Earl Golz.

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PS: Here is the article:

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« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 04:33:06 PM by Mark Ulrik »

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 10:38:27 PM »
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According to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login book, the Applin quote is from a 1979 DMN article by Earl Golz.

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PS: Here is the article:

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Thanks for posting.

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 10:38:27 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #441 (McDonald Pulls Gun)
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2018, 12:32:18 AM »
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In the DMN published account NMM says that while he was driving towards the Oak Cliff area there was a police broadcast regarding a tip that a “man acting funny was holed up in the balcony of the Texas Theater. . . . The cashier at the picture show was the one who called in to say this guy was acting suspicious and hidden out in the balcony.” (N. M. McDonald, "Officer Recalls Oswald Capture," Dallas Morning News, November 24, 1963, p. 13)

Of course McDonald was doing his usual storytelling here, because how would he know what Postal said when she called in?  All he would have known is what the dispatcher said over the radio:

"10-4. We have information that a suspect just went in the Texas Theater on West Jefferson.
Supposed to be hiding in the balcony."

Postal couldn't have seen anybody sneak into the theater.  By her own admission she was out of her ticket booth at the time and facing west on Jefferson.  And when Brewer asked her if she sold a ticket to that man, she said "what man?".  She just relayed to the police what Brewer described as the person he saw in front of his shop who he also didn't see sneak into the theater.

As for the info that the "suspect" was in the balcony.  That couldn't have come from Brewer or Postal because Brewer had looked in the balcony and had seen no one there and then he went back out to tell Postal to call the police.