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Author Topic: 1+1+1=6  (Read 4075 times)

Online Steve Howsley

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2018, 12:13:22 AM »
Walt, It's obvious you are incapable of a reasonable exchange on this subject. I'll leave you alone with your childish posting and your lack of courage to even nominate the number of shots in DP.

"Toy Kellerman" indeed ... what a juvenile comment.

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2018, 12:13:22 AM »


Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2018, 01:08:46 AM »
Walt, It's obvious you are incapable of a reasonable exchange on this subject. I'll leave you alone with your childish posting and your lack of courage to even nominate the number of shots in DP.

"Toy Kellerman" indeed ... what a juvenile comment.

Pssst...Perhaps you can look at your keyboard and see that the letters "T" and "R" are side by side....

What would a reasonably intelligent person assume happened that caused Roy Kellerman to become Toy Kellerman?

Online Steve Howsley

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2018, 01:11:13 AM »
Pssst...Perhaps you can look at your keyboard and see that the letters "T" and "R" are side by side....

What would a reasonably intelligent person assume happened that caused Roy Kellerman to become Toy Kellerman?

How many shots in DP?

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2018, 01:20:16 AM »
A question for you ZM; how many shots were fired in DP on 11.22.63? I say three and you say ... ?

I think there could be just 3 shots,but because of Willis and Betzner, having heard 1st shot fired between  their photos at Z186 and Z205, I have to rule out all 3 shots from a MC rifle because Z195 is only 1 sec spaced from Z223. I find it more than coincidental that Rosemary Willis abruptly halts at Z195.

So I consider it plausible that there was a Daltex shooter who shot the Z223 shot with a suppressed rifle from probably a 3rd floor window, to be able to clear the windshiedl of the followup SS car. And its not implausible he shot 2 shots, one of which missed and also bounced off windshield or frame, thus contributing to Kellermans perception of a "flurry" of shots.


But I also have problems with the head shot trajectory from the SE window, and I surmiss that a 2nd shooter was on the 6th floor TSBD at the SW corner window with the 30.06 hunting rifle as seen by Arnold Rowland at 12:15pm. The head shot trajectory from SW window if it hit the upper right rear of JFK skull would be in a line to traverse across the right hemisphere and cause the radial fragmentation lines in the JFK lateral X ray which converge at the "v" notch wound seen in the autopsy photo.


The SE head shot trajectory on the other hand, would be on a different tangent line and a much shorter entrance/exit path, vs the SW trajectory. You can see this in the "Cramped Decoy Snipersnest" thread started by Paul Ernst.




« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 01:21:53 AM by Zeon Mason »

Online Steve Howsley

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2018, 01:22:39 AM »
Thanks ZM for a considered response.

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2018, 01:22:39 AM »


Offline Bill Brown

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2018, 01:27:32 AM »
You failed to mention anything at all about the action taking place in the limo (including the shattering/breaking of the skull) that contributed to the perception of a flurry of shots.

I thought it was clear that I believe the idea that JFK's skull "shattered" and that created the illusion of a "flurry" of shots  is nothing but BS!....  Kellerman was referring to a "flurry of shots...Not pieces of JFK's skull flying about...

Incidentally no "fragments" from a shattered skull were found anywhere near Toy Kellrman.....


Quote
Kellerman was referring to a "flurry of shots...Not pieces of JFK's skull flying about...

How do you know?

Kellerman never said a "flurry of shots".

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2018, 01:32:24 AM »

How do you know?

Kellerman never said a "flurry of shots".

He didn't??   Then explain this Billy Bob.....

Mr. SPECTER. Can you describe the sound of the flurry of shots by way of distinction with the way you have described the sound of the first shot?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Well, having heard all types of guns fired, most of them, rather, if I recall correctly these were two sharp reports, sir. Again, I am going to refer to it as like a plane going through a sound barrier; bang, bang.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, you are referring to the flurry?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2018, 01:34:52 AM »
I think there could be just 3 shots,but because of Willis and Betzner, having heard 1st shot fired between  their photos at Z186 and Z205, I have to rule out all 3 shots from a MC rifle because Z195 is only 1 sec spaced from Z223. I find it more than coincidental that Rosemary Willis abruptly halts at Z195.

So I consider it plausible that there was a Daltex shooter who shot the Z223 shot with a suppressed rifle from probably a 3rd floor window, to be able to clear the windshiedl of the followup SS car. And its not implausible he shot 2 shots, one of which missed and also bounced off windshield or frame, thus contributing to Kellermans perception of a "flurry" of shots.


But I also have problems with the head shot trajectory from the SE window, and I surmiss that a 2nd shooter was on the 6th floor TSBD at the SW corner window with the 30.06 hunting rifle as seen by Arnold Rowland at 12:15pm. The head shot trajectory from SW window if it hit the upper right rear of JFK skull would be in a line to traverse across the right hemisphere and cause the radial fragmentation lines in the JFK lateral X ray which converge at the "v" notch wound seen in the autopsy photo.


The SE head shot trajectory on the other hand, would be on a different tangent line and a much shorter entrance/exit path, vs the SW trajectory. You can see this in the "Cramped Decoy Snipersnest" thread started by Paul Ernst.


Quote
And its not implausible he shot 2 shots, one of which missed and also bounced off windshield or frame, thus contributing to Kellermans perception of a "flurry" of shots.

Zeon, we do not know that Kellerman had the perception of a flurry of shots because he never said that.


Quote
The head shot trajectory from SW window if it hit the upper right rear of JFK skull would be in a line to traverse across the right hemisphere and cause the radial fragmentation lines in the JFK lateral X ray which converge at the "v" notch wound seen in the autopsy photo.

Every single study of the autopsy photos and X-rays concluded that Kennedy was hit twice and both shots were from above and behind.

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2018, 01:34:52 AM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2018, 01:59:40 AM »

Zeon, we do not know that Kellerman had the perception of a flurry of shots because he never said that.

Every single study of the autopsy photos and X-rays concluded that Kennedy was hit twice and both shots were from above and behind.


Im not contesting if he said heard a flurry, im just suggesting the "flurry" perception he has, which you were saying is caused by fragments hitting windhield, might not ALL be from the MC rifle.


And Im not contesting the head shot came from the rear, i am contesting which rear trajectory from TSBD works better, an imo, the SW angle is MUCH closer to a path from entrance wound as per HSCA diagram, to the V notch in the autopsy photo.


Im not entirely convinced by the Inside the Target Car experiment, Bill. Imo that did not have JFKs head turned leftward enough. And although they DID show a similar forward and upwards splatter pattern, I think the failed to show a bullet fragmenting into at least 6 sizable fragments and also how 3 of those could bounce of inner windsheild and richochet around the driver Greer.



« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 02:02:39 AM by Zeon Mason »

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2018, 02:12:30 AM »

Im not contesting if he said heard a flurry, im just suggesting the "flurry" perception he has, which you were saying is caused by fragments hitting windhield, might not ALL be from the MC rifle.


And Im not contesting the head shot came from the rear, i am contesting which rear trajectory from TSBD works better, an imo, the SW angle is MUCH closer to a path from entrance wound as per HSCA diagram, to the V notch in the autopsy photo.


Im not entirely convinced by the Inside the Target Car experiment, Bill. Imo that did not have JFKs head turned leftward enough. And although they DID show a similar forward and upwards splatter pattern, I think the failed to show a bullet fragmenting into at least 6 sizable fragments and also how 3 of those could bounce of inner windsheild and richochet around the driver Greer.

My point was that Kellerman said a "flurry of shells" as opposed to a flurry of shots.  Big difference.

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2018, 02:12:30 AM »


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