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Author Topic: 1+1+1=6  (Read 3486 times)

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2018, 03:46:02 AM »
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John Connally said he heard the first shot.  He turned to his right in an attempt to look over his right shoulder because he felt that was where the sound came from.  He said he could not turn far enough around to see over his right shoulder so he decided to turn to his left to attempt to look over his left shoulder.  As he was turning his head from trying to look over his right shoulder to trying to look over his left shoulder, at about the point where he was again facing straight forward, he felt the impact of the bullet to his back.

Connally was assuming that the President was hit by the first shot and that is why he felt that he was hot by a different shot than the President (because he knew he himself was not hit by the first shot).

If the first shot missed, then Connally's assumption, thought a natural one to make, was incorrect.


 The point, as I understood the post, was the the number of witnesses. I imagine there is good reason to criticize or question the certainty of plenty of witnesses
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 03:47:58 AM by Matt Grantham »

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2018, 03:46:02 AM »


Offline Howard Gee

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2018, 05:22:55 AM »
For a SS man, Kellerman is a shockingly poor witness.

A close reading of his testimony indicates that he thinks Kennedy is hit by the first 'firecracker' sounding shot and that the 'flurry' of shots came 'instantaneously' afterwards.

Yet somehow after the first shot Kellerman has time to turn and see JFK is hit, get on the radio to tell Lawson 'we are hit, get to a hospital', before the flurry of shots that supposedly came 'instantaneously' after the firecracker sound.

Makes no sense.

IMO, Kellerman only got on the radio after the fatal headshot, not before.

In any event, we can be sure that the elapsed time between JFK being wounded and his head being blown off is not 'instantaneous'.

Additionally, Kellerman seemingly assumes that the '4 wounds' to JFK couldn't have been caused by two bullets (each causing an entry and exit wound) and that Connally's '3 wounds' couldn't have been the result of one bullet.

Kellerman should know better.

When Kellerman is pressed to describe the 'flurry' of shots, it turns out he is actually describing a 'double bang' or the sound of something breaking the sound barrier.

Having said all that, the bottom line is Kellerman still won't commit to hearing more than 3 shots.

So the question remains, if there were 6 shots fired, why did most people only hear three ?

So far the answer seems to be one conspirator firing unmuted diversionary shots while the real snipers were firing away using rifles with silencers.

Offline Steve Howsley

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2018, 06:28:41 AM »
A sensible reading of evidence such as the rifle shot, the sound of the shattering skull then the fragment(s) hitting the windscreen and the chrome strip above the glass would see 'a flurry of shots' as a reasonable reaction. Those hits on the vehicle's body (glass and chrome) were in the face of Greer and Kellerman and along with JC crying out "“my God, they are going to kill us all" from behind along with Jackie's horrified reaction I'm not surprised that the a flurry of shots was how Kellerman described the moment.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 06:31:34 AM by Steve Howsley »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2018, 12:50:24 PM »
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A sensible reading of evidence such as the rifle shot, the sound of the shattering skull then the fragment(s) hitting the windscreen and the chrome strip above the glass would see 'a flurry of shots' as a reasonable reaction. Those hits on the vehicle's body (glass and chrome) were in the face of Greer and Kellerman and along with JC crying out "“my God, they are going to kill us all" from behind along with Jackie's horrified reaction I'm not surprised that the a flurry of shots was how Kellerman described the moment.

A sensible reading of evidence such as the rifle shot, the sound of the shattering skull then the fragment(s) hitting the windscreen and the chrome strip above the glass would see 'a flurry of shots' as a reasonable reaction.

Sensible??    So you believe that JFK's skull was made of some frangible material like glass?   

It will probably be a surprise to you that the human skull is very tough and it will not "shatter".... when struck be a FMJ projectile like a carcano bullet.  Thousands of soldiers have been struck in the head by FMJ projectiles and the skulls did not "shatter"

Offline Steve Howsley

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2018, 01:04:03 PM »
The skull did shatter. A large piece was found in DP long after the limo had departed the scene. I'm not interested in debating semantics about the word 'shattered'. Suffice to say that JFK's skull broke into pieces. You do understand that don't you?

You failed to mention anything at all about the action taking place in the limo (including the shattering/breaking of the skull) that contributed to the perception of a flurry of shots. I assume you acknowledge that that was an understandable thing for Kellerman to have thought. Do you?

Now, to the point of this thread; how many shots were fired in DP on 11.22.63? I say three and you say ???
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 01:05:55 PM by Steve Howsley »

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2018, 01:04:03 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2018, 02:50:14 PM »
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The skull did shatter. A large piece was found in DP long after the limo had departed the scene. I'm not interested in debating semantics about the word 'shattered'. Suffice to say that JFK's skull broke into pieces. You do understand that don't you?

You failed to mention anything at all about the action taking place in the limo (including the shattering/breaking of the skull) that contributed to the perception of a flurry of shots. I assume you acknowledge that that was an understandable thing for Kellerman to have thought. Do you?

Now, to the point of this thread; how many shots were fired in DP on 11.22.63? I say three and you say ???

A large piece of JFK's skull was blown from the rear of his skull......As if he had been hit by a heavy hollow nose bullet . A FMJ would blow right through the skull leaving a small entrance and exit wound.    Many soldiers survived being shot in the head by a FMJ bullet.....But none ever survived being shot by a 45 caliber ACP bullet.

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2018, 07:36:49 PM »
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A large piece of JFK's skull was blown from the rear of his skull......As if he had been hit by a heavy hollow nose bullet . A FMJ would blow right through the skull leaving a small entrance and exit wound.    Many soldiers survived being shot in the head by a FMJ bullet.....But none ever survived being shot by a 45 caliber ACP bullet.


Walt, this is the reason I question if an 6.5mm FMJ ball nosed bullet with impact velocity at 2000 ft sec, hitting just a very small area of a spherical object of brittle bone matter, on a tangent line, would shatter into at least 6 sizeable fragments, plus a few other smaller fragments, plus leave a trail of  dust fragments in the brain.

I dont think there has been any experiment that shows that, other than the" Inside the Target Car"experiment, which has the WRONG trajectory line, because they dont have the head turned leftward as seen in Nix Flim and Moorman photo. They relied only on the side view from the Zapruder film at Z312 and that does not quite show how leftward JFKs head is actually turned.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 07:42:55 PM by Zeon Mason »

Offline Steve Howsley

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2018, 11:00:40 PM »
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A large piece of JFK's skull was blown from the rear of his skull......As if he had been hit by a heavy hollow nose bullet . A FMJ would blow right through the skull leaving a small entrance and exit wound.    Many soldiers survived being shot in the head by a FMJ bullet.....But none ever survived being shot by a 45 caliber ACP bullet.

Again you avoid the question. A day ago you asked:

Can you explain how a cranky old bolt action carcano could be fired so rapidly that the incoming shots sounded like "flurry of shots".....

and I responded:

You failed to mention anything at all about the action taking place in the limo (including the shattering/breaking of the skull) that contributed to the perception of a flurry of shots. I assume you acknowledge that that was an understandable thing for Kellerman to have thought. Do you?

Now, to the point of this thread; how many shots were fired in DP on 11.22.63? I say three and you say ... ?


With the sound of the rifle shot then bullet fragments pinging around in the car, JC crying out right behind Kellerman saying that they were all doomed, the sound of the skull getting hit and the spray of the brain matter plus Jackie's cries of horror and devastation makes for a horror beyond imagination. So I answered your question and have twice now asked two simple questions of my own. Are you not prepared to answer them?

« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 11:35:47 PM by Steve Howsley »

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2018, 11:00:40 PM »


Offline Steve Howsley

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2018, 11:11:01 PM »
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Walt, this is the reason I question if an 6.5mm FMJ ball nosed bullet with impact velocity at 2000 ft sec, hitting just a very small area of a spherical object of brittle bone matter, on a tangent line, would shatter into at least 6 sizeable fragments, plus a few other smaller fragments, plus leave a trail of  dust fragments in the brain.

I dont think there has been any experiment that shows that, other than the" Inside the Target Car"experiment, which has the WRONG trajectory line, because they dont have the head turned leftward as seen in Nix Flim and Moorman photo. They relied only on the side view from the Zapruder film at Z312 and that does not quite show how leftward JFKs head is actually turned.

A question for you ZM; how many shots were fired in DP on 11.22.63? I say three and you say ... ?

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2018, 12:06:25 AM »
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Again you avoid the question. A day ago you asked:

Can you explain how a cranky old bolt action carcano could be fired so rapidly that the incoming shots sounded like "flurry of shots".....

and I responded:

You failed to mention anything at all about the action taking place in the limo (including the shattering/breaking of the skull) that contributed to the perception of a flurry of shots. I assume you acknowledge that that was an understandable thing for Kellerman to have thought. Do you?

Now, to the point of this thread; how many shots were fired in DP on 11.22.63? I say three and you say ... ?


With the sound of the rifle shot then bullet fragments pinging around in the car, JC crying out right behind Kellerman saying that they were all doomed, the sound of the skull getting hit and the spray of the brain matter plus Jackie's cries of horror and devastation makes for a horror beyond imagination. So I answered your question and have twice now asked two simple questions of my own. Are you not prepared to answer them?

You failed to mention anything at all about the action taking place in the limo (including the shattering/breaking of the skull) that contributed to the perception of a flurry of shots.

I thought it was clear that I believe the idea that JFK's skull "shattered" and that created the illusion of a "flurry" of shots  is nothing but BS!....  Kellerman was referring to a "flurry of shots...Not pieces of JFK's skull flying about...

Incidentally no "fragments" from a shattered skull were found anywhere near Toy Kellrman.....


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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2018, 12:06:25 AM »