1+1+1=6


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Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2018, 11:36:03 PM »
The Connally's claimed John Connally was hit be a different bullet than JFK By extension they are admitting to one more bullet than the WC story. I don't have the Kellerman quote , but I remember it being something like it was raining bullets in the limo which is not consistent with two bullets hitting the limo And, while you may not like my perspective , statements that are initially challenging of the WC and then conform to the WC story while testifying still have significance for me.

Senator COOPER. Not your opinion, but from the time of the shooting you think then that you heard only three shots, or did you--
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes.
Senator COOPER. Or did you ever think that you heard more than three?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir; I can't say that, sir.

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2018, 11:36:03 PM »


Offline Steve Howsley

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2018, 11:49:40 PM »
I believe Kellerman used the phrase "a flurry of shells".  When you consider the fact that the shot to Kennedy's skull caused the bullet to disintegrate into many shell fragments, Kellerman was quite correct.

That is an excellent point.

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2018, 01:04:30 AM »
Senator COOPER. Not your opinion, but from the time of the shooting you think then that you heard only three shots, or did you--
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes.
Senator COOPER. Or did you ever think that you heard more than three?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir; I can't say that, sir.


Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen.
Senator COOPER. What is that answer? What did he say?
Mr. SPECTER. Will you repeat that, Mr. Kellerman?
Mr. KELLERMAN.President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the head and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports, had three. There have got to be more than three shots.



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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2018, 01:04:30 AM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2018, 01:39:47 AM »
Am I understanding Kellerman to be saying JFK was hit then a flurry of shots followed?


Mr. SPECTER. As you are positioning yourself in the witness chair, your right hand is up with the finger at the ear level as if clutching from the right of the head; would that be an accurate description of the position you pictured there?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes. Good. There was enough for me to verify that the man was hit. So, in the same motion I come right back and grabbed the speaker and said to the driver, "Let's get out of here; we are hit," and grabbed the mike and I said, "Lawson, this is Kellerman,"--this is Lawson, who is in the front car. "We are hit; get us to the hospital immediately." Now, in the seconds that I talked just now, a flurry of shells come into the car. I then looked back and this time Mr. Hill, who was riding on the left front bumper of our followup car, was on the back trunk of that car; the President was sideways down into. the back seat.

~snip~

Mr. SPECTER. Now, in your prior testimony you described a flurry of shells into the car. How many shots did you hear after the first noise which you described as sounding like a firecracker?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, these shells came in all together.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you able to say how many you heard?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say two, and it was like a double bang--bang, bang.
Mr. SPECTER. You mean now two shots in addition to the first noise?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; yes, sir; at least.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the time, in seconds, from the first noise sounding like a firecracker until the second noise which you heard?
Mr. KELLERMAN. This was instantaneous

~snip~

Mr. SPECTER. Can you describe the sound of the flurry of shots by way of distinction with the way you have described the sound of the first shot?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Well, having heard all types of guns fired, most of them, rather, if I recall correctly these were two sharp reports, sir. Again, I am going to refer to it as like a plane going through a sound barrier; bang, bang.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, you are referring to the flurry?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.
Mr. SPECTER. Did it sound differently from the first noise you have described as being a firecracker?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes; definitely; very much so.

~snip~

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman, you said earlier that there were at least two additional shots. Is there any area in your mind or possibility, as you recollect that situation, that there could have been more than two shots, or are you able to say with any certainty?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen.
Senator COOPER. What is that answer? What did he say?
Mr. SPECTER. Will you repeat that, Mr. Kellerman?
Mr. KELLERMAN.President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the head and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports, had three. There have got to be more than three shots.
Representative FORD. Is that why you have described--
Mr. KELLERMAN. The flurry.
Representative FORD. The noise as a flurry?

Mr. SPECTER. Now, you are referring to the flurry?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.


Hey Mr Gee Whiz....Can you explain how a cranky old bolt action carcano could be fired so rapidly that the incoming shots sounded like "flurry of shots".....

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2018, 03:46:02 AM »

John Connally said he heard the first shot.  He turned to his right in an attempt to look over his right shoulder because he felt that was where the sound came from.  He said he could not turn far enough around to see over his right shoulder so he decided to turn to his left to attempt to look over his left shoulder.  As he was turning his head from trying to look over his right shoulder to trying to look over his left shoulder, at about the point where he was again facing straight forward, he felt the impact of the bullet to his back.

Connally was assuming that the President was hit by the first shot and that is why he felt that he was hot by a different shot than the President (because he knew he himself was not hit by the first shot).

If the first shot missed, then Connally's assumption, thought a natural one to make, was incorrect.


 The point, as I understood the post, was the the number of witnesses. I imagine there is good reason to criticize or question the certainty of plenty of witnesses
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 03:47:58 AM by Matt Grantham »

Offline Howard Gee

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2018, 05:22:55 AM »
For a SS man, Kellerman is a shockingly poor witness.

A close reading of his testimony indicates that he thinks Kennedy is hit by the first 'firecracker' sounding shot and that the 'flurry' of shots came 'instantaneously' afterwards.

Yet somehow after the first shot Kellerman has time to turn and see JFK is hit, get on the radio to tell Lawson 'we are hit, get to a hospital', before the flurry of shots that supposedly came 'instantaneously' after the firecracker sound.

Makes no sense.

IMO, Kellerman only got on the radio after the fatal headshot, not before.

In any event, we can be sure that the elapsed time between JFK being wounded and his head being blown off is not 'instantaneous'.

Additionally, Kellerman seemingly assumes that the '4 wounds' to JFK couldn't have been caused by two bullets (each causing an entry and exit wound) and that Connally's '3 wounds' couldn't have been the result of one bullet.

Kellerman should know better.

When Kellerman is pressed to describe the 'flurry' of shots, it turns out he is actually describing a 'double bang' or the sound of something breaking the sound barrier.

Having said all that, the bottom line is Kellerman still won't commit to hearing more than 3 shots.

So the question remains, if there were 6 shots fired, why did most people only hear three ?

So far the answer seems to be one conspirator firing unmuted diversionary shots while the real snipers were firing away using rifles with silencers.

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2018, 05:22:55 AM »


Offline Steve Howsley

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2018, 06:28:41 AM »
A sensible reading of evidence such as the rifle shot, the sound of the shattering skull then the fragment(s) hitting the windscreen and the chrome strip above the glass would see 'a flurry of shots' as a reasonable reaction. Those hits on the vehicle's body (glass and chrome) were in the face of Greer and Kellerman and along with JC crying out "?my God, they are going to kill us all" from behind along with Jackie's horrified reaction I'm not surprised that the a flurry of shots was how Kellerman described the moment.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 06:31:34 AM by Steve Howsley »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2018, 12:50:24 PM »
A sensible reading of evidence such as the rifle shot, the sound of the shattering skull then the fragment(s) hitting the windscreen and the chrome strip above the glass would see 'a flurry of shots' as a reasonable reaction. Those hits on the vehicle's body (glass and chrome) were in the face of Greer and Kellerman and along with JC crying out "?my God, they are going to kill us all" from behind along with Jackie's horrified reaction I'm not surprised that the a flurry of shots was how Kellerman described the moment.

A sensible reading of evidence such as the rifle shot, the sound of the shattering skull then the fragment(s) hitting the windscreen and the chrome strip above the glass would see 'a flurry of shots' as a reasonable reaction.

Sensible??    So you believe that JFK's skull was made of some frangible material like glass?   

It will probably be a surprise to you that the human skull is very tough and it will not "shatter".... when struck be a FMJ projectile like a carcano bullet.  Thousands of soldiers have been struck in the head by FMJ projectiles and the skulls did not "shatter"

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Re: 1+1+1=6
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2018, 12:50:24 PM »


 

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