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Author Topic: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461  (Read 2848 times)

Offline Rob Caprio

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Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« on: January 06, 2018, 05:14:34 PM »
Disclaimer: I will no longer respond to any posts that are off topic and/or meant to derail the issue of the opening post. This should not be taken as me running, but instead seen as me keeping the topic on track.

I have no issue with any WC defender, therefore, I am happy to discuss the case in a manner that uses the actual evidence with them. IF the WC was correct in their final conclusion as they claim then this should be no problem for them.

I will not participate in any personal discussions with them as these are meant to distract and discredit instead of focusing on the JFK assassination. I come here to discuss and learn about the JFK assassination and nothing more.
No more games with the LNers. The LNers have to to discuss the WC's, HSCA's and ARRB's evidence or move along.

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The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) assassinated President John F. Kennedy (JFK), wounded Governor John B. Connolly (JBC), killed Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit (JDT), attempted to assassinate retired General Edwin A. Walker (EAW), and that he went to Mexico City, Mexico.

Of course they provided absolutely no supporting evidence for any of these claims in the twenty-six volumes. This post doesn't deal with any these topics, but rather drills down to a very specific topic that sheds light on how the WC dealt with issues that didn't fit their theory.


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If the motorcade’s destination was Stemmons Freeway, why didn't it use Elm Street instead of Main Street?

Here is what the WC wrote about the motorcade route in their report.


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 Even before the Trade Mart had been definitely selected, Lawson and Sorrels began to consider the best motorcade route from Love Field to the Trade Mart. On November 14, Lawson and Sorrels attended a meeting at Love Field and on their return to Dallas drove over the route which Sorrels believed best suited for the proposed motorcade.

From Love Field the route passed through a portion of suburban Dallas, through the downtown area along Main Street then to the Trade Mart via Stemmons Freeway. (WCR, p. 31)

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This passage reflects the thought that using Main Street was the best way to travel from Love Field to Dealey Plaza (DP) because “it offered wide streets”. (WCR, p. 32) The WC provided us with a map to illustrate what they had written.

Here is CE 2113:


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Several things jump out when we look at this map. Firstly, the claim that Main Street was the best option because it had a wider street for the buses in the motorcade is suspect. Perhaps it did have a wide street but so did Elm Street based on the map. The street width depicted is identical, thus, the excuse given for Main Street's selection is not supported by the map provided to us.

Secondly, the destination of the motorcade was the Trade Mart via Stemmons Freeway. If you look at the map Stemmons Freeway was designated as Route 77 and could have been reached directly from Elm Street. This means that the motorcade should simply have turned onto Elm Street and headed toward the Stemmons Freeway entrance instead of turning onto Main Street, and then making the turns onto Houston and Elm Streets which required speed slowing turns.

Elm Street was as wide as Main Street according to the map so that shouldn't have been an issue. If Main Street had to be the choice then the motorcade should have proceeded onto Industrial Boulevard which would have taken them to the Trade Mart. The excuse that the WC gave us doesn't cut it in justifying why two turns were chosen over two DIRECT routes.


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Elm Street, parallel to Main Street and one block north, was not used for the main portion of the downtown part of the motorcade because Main Street offered better vantage points for spectators. (WCR, p. 32)

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Again, if we look at the map we see that Elm and Main Streets have the same configuration so what better vantage points did Main offer that Elm did not?

The WC even admitted that “the only practical way for westbound traffic on Main Street to reach the northbound lanes of the Stemmons Freeway is via Elm Street…” (Ibid.) and then describes the two turns needed to make this happen.

What the WC doesn't do is act as a true investigative body and ask the simple question of “Why were the two turns needed when the motorcade could have simply used Elm Street instead of Main Street?” No, they weren't interested in asking this question and instead preferred to make ridiculous claims of why those two turns were part of the motorcade. What they had NO desire to find out is why these two turns were part of the motorcade when there was NO need for them.

Clearly they were added to slow the motorcade down considerably so the real assassins had a better chance of success. This one issue shows that a conspiracy was involved in the assassination as LHO could NOT have gotten the Secret Service (SS) to choose this route even if he was the lone assassin as claimed.

The motorcade topic is discussed often by JFK assassination researchers, but very few that I have read made this point – Elm Street should have been the route chosen through the downtown area since it led directly to the Stemmons Freeway entrance.

The WC failed to explore and explain why the SS didn't simply choose to use Elm Street instead of Main Street which would have eliminated the excessive turns which slowed down the motorcade considerably, and this was a major reason why JFK was successfully assassinated too. Therefore, their conclusion cannot possibly be correct and is sunk again.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 05:17:39 PM by Rob Caprio »

JFK Assassination Forum

Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« on: January 06, 2018, 05:14:34 PM »


Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 08:34:06 PM »
Before the old forum was hacked no LNer could show the supposed vantage points  that Main Street had over Elm Street.

Remember,  Elm Street CONNECTED DIRECTLY to the Stemmons Freeway which should have trumped any supposed vantage points.

The motorcade BYPSSSED Elm Street which connected directly to the Stemmons Freeway only to make two turns to get back to Elm Street that it had BYPASSED.

Why?

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2018, 03:32:39 AM »
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Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2018, 08:01:05 AM »
It has been established that Sorrels (chiefly in charge of planning the route) stated that Main Street offered better vantage points than Elm Street.

Now, the burden is on you to prove Sorrels wrong.  Can you do that?

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2018, 10:17:07 AM »
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It has been established that Sorrels (chiefly in charge of planning the route) stated that Main Street offered better vantage points than Elm Street.

Now, the burden is on you to prove Sorrels wrong.  Can you do that?




Mr. STERN - Excuse me--you said right-hand turn to Elm. I think you mean left.
Mr. SORRELS - A right-hand turn on Houston--I am sorry--and a left-hand turn on Elm.
Now, Elm is one way going west in the direction which we would have gone, but that street is not the street that they use for parades.
Main Street is right through the heart of the city. It is the best choice for parades. It gives an opportunity for more people--tall buildings on the side of the street--and it is almost invariably---every parade that is had is on Main Street. The one in 1936, when President Roosevelt was there, was the same route in reverse, so to speak.
We came up on Houston Street from Union Station, turned right on Main Street, right on Main Street, through the very heart of the town.







JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2018, 10:17:07 AM »


Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2018, 03:08:46 AM »
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It has been established that Sorrels (chiefly in charge of planning the route) stated that Main Street offered better vantage points than Elm Street.

Now, the burden is on you to prove Sorrels wrong.  Can you do that?

No, the burden is on you to show that Sorrels was correct in his statement. Passing the burden isn't going to work.

Why not list the vantage points that Main Street offered?

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 03:15:33 AM »
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Mr. STERN - Excuse me--you said right-hand turn to Elm. I think you mean left.
Mr. SORRELS - A right-hand turn on Houston--I am sorry--and a left-hand turn on Elm.
Now, Elm is one way going west in the direction which we would have gone, but that street is not the street that they use for parades.
Main Street is right through the heart of the city. It is the best choice for parades. It gives an opportunity for more people--tall buildings on the side of the street--and it is almost invariably---every parade that is had is on Main Street. The one in 1936, when President Roosevelt was there, was the same route in reverse, so to speak.
We came up on Houston Street from Union Station, turned right on Main Street, right on Main Street, through the very heart of the town.







JohnM

My, oh my. Eighty-three posts by John already. You have been very busy since the forum has been rebooted.

We are not discussing parades. We are discussing a motorcade that was headed to the Trade Mart via the Stemmons Freeway. Guess which road connected directly to the Stemmons Freeway? That is right. --Elm Street and NOT Main Street.

Stemmons Freeway was NOT around during FDR's trip so that is irrelevant to what occurred on November 22.

Why can't any of you LNers list the supposed vantage points that Main Street offered?

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 03:19:48 AM »
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My, oh my. Eighty-three posts by John already. You have been very busy since the forum has been rebooted.

We are not discussing parades. We are discussing a motorcade that was headed to the Trade Mart via the Stemmons Freeway. Guess which road connected directly to the Stemmons Freeway? That is right. --Elm Street and NOT Main Street.

Stemmons Freeway was NOT around during FDR's trip so that is irrelevant to what occurred on November 22.

Why can't any of you LNers list the supposed vantage points that Main Street offered?





Quote
My, oh my. Eighty-three posts by John already. You have been very busy since the forum has been rebooted.

FFS Rob/Bob/David, they don't pay me for sitting idle, I'm paid per post.

Quote
We are not discussing parades.

If Kennedy didn't want to be seen then please provide evidence.

Quote
Why can't any of you LNers list the supposed vantage points that Main Street offered?

Are you blind?





JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 03:19:48 AM »


Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 03:45:11 AM »
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FFS Rob/Bob/David, they don't pay me for sitting idle, I'm paid per post.

If Kennedy didn't want to be seen then please provide evidence.

Are you blind?





JohnM

So as I thought John/Tom can't list a single supposed vantage point for why Main Street was selected over Elm Street which connected directly to the Stemmons Freeway. I figured as much.

You had no problem when my post count was mentioned constantly by LNers on the old forum. Did you?

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 05:35:04 AM »
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So as I thought John/Tom can't list a single supposed vantage point for why Main Street was selected over Elm Street which connected directly to the Stemmons Freeway. I figured as much.

You had no problem when my post count was mentioned constantly by LNers on the old forum. Did you?



Quote
So as I thought John/Tom can't list a single supposed vantage point for why Main Street was selected over Elm Street which connected directly to the Stemmons Freeway. I figured as much.

I'll post it again, read carefully what Sorrels says and then examine the photos.

Mr. STERN - Excuse me--you said right-hand turn to Elm. I think you mean left.
Mr. SORRELS - A right-hand turn on Houston--I am sorry--and a left-hand turn on Elm.
Now, Elm is one way going west in the direction which we would have gone, but that street is not the street that they use for parades.
Main Street is right through the heart of the city. It is the best choice for parades. It gives an opportunity for more people--tall buildings on the side of the street--and it is almost invariably---every parade that is had is on Main Street. The one in 1936, when President Roosevelt was there, was the same route in reverse, so to speak.
We came up on Houston Street from Union Station, turned right on Main Street, right on Main Street, through the very heart of the town.









Quote
You had no problem when my post count was mentioned constantly by LNers on the old forum. Did you?

I told you, I'm paid to post here, a buck a post, with a bonus of 10 cents a letter and a triple word score every time I use the word Kook, got that Kook?



JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #461
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 05:35:04 AM »