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Author Topic: Oswald's Shirt  (Read 5634 times)

Offline Steve Logan

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2018, 07:44:21 PM »
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Being warned by a LNer is akin to seeing a shark's fin while swimming in the surf...

Just because one knows and refers to your foolishness does not make one an LNer.

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2018, 07:44:21 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2018, 11:14:49 PM »
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Yes, all the evidence is suspect and the product of fakery and lies going back months or years but no one is suggesting or implying there was a conspiracy.

Who said that all the evidence is suspect and the product of fakery and lies going back months or years?  Do you ever get tired of just making sh!t up?

Quote
The dilemma for CTers is that they apply an impossible standard proof when it comes to Oswald's guilt.  As a result nothing, including their closet conspiracy fantasy, can ever be proved under that standard.

Spoken like a guy trying to make excuses for his inability to prove his case beyond anything even approaching a reasonable doubt.  It's the fault of everyone else for just not accepting it anyway.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2018, 02:01:46 PM »
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There was a thread on this last year. It got really interesting. There was a lot of linked material.
We can try and revive it....



At 12:44, 14 minutes after the shooting, Dallas Police Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer called in a description of the presumed assassin. He announced: "The wanted person in this is a slender white male about 30, 5 feet 10, 165, carrying what looks to be a 30-30 or some type of Winchester." He was then asked to confirm that this was a rifle. He responded: "A rifle, yes." He was then asked "Any clothing description?" He responded "Current witness can't remember that."

As a side note the "slender white male about 30, 5 feet 10, 165" is the same exact description...word for word... of a guy that was in Mexico City claiming to be Lee Oswald. The middle name was also given...but it was not Harvey...it was Henry*
Meanwhile back to the shirt...
Motorcycle Officer Marrion Baker, who?d encountered Oswald in a stairway within a minute and a half of the shooting, described Oswald's clothing as different than the man seen in the window (11-22-63 Affidavit, 24H199): ?The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5?9?, 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.?

I just posted this under the Oswald's Jacket thread...
A statement from Wes Frazier's sister.....


       
The complete post is here..
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There was this Mary Bledsoe woman who stated she was a former landlady of Oswald's.****************************************************************
Again asked about the shirt...************************************************************
This stuff about the shirt must have really bothered the Commission.
Ball would not let it go.Ball goes on and on...Enough for now about Bledsoe... :P
It continues like this for another page !!
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Was the shirt that Ms Randle saw, the same shirt that Patrolman Baker saw, & the same shirt that Ms Bledsoe saw which was the same shirt that Oswald was arrested in?
To be con't...all comments welcome.

Credit to Pat Speer's Threads of Evidence for picture links and some info.

Looks like the topic (The Shirt)  of the title of this thread has slipped.....Let's try to put it back on track and discuss the shirt .

Was the shirt that Ms Randle saw, the same shirt that Patrolman Baker saw, & the same shirt that Ms Bledsoe saw which was the same shirt that Oswald was arrested in?
To be con't...all comments welcome.


"Was the shirt that Ms Randle saw, the same shirt that Patrolman Baker saw",

Most probably,.....the shirt that LMR saw was the same shirt that Officer Marrion Baker saw .... And I assume that you're referring to the reddish brown SHIRT that Lee was wearing in the second floor lunchroom at 12:32 pm 11/22/63.    But this is NOT the tan (khaki) JACKET that Baker saw being worn by the man on either the third or fourth floor.

"the same shirt that Ms Bledsoe saw "

I don't believe Mrs Bledsoe....She was a senile old woman and I doubt that she was observant enough to know how Cecil Mc Watters was dressed.......

which was the same shirt that Oswald was arrested in?

Lee went to his room and changed his clothes.....IF Mrs Bledsoe made a mental note of the shirt....  that shirt would have been in the dresser in his room at 1026 N. Beckley and it was NOT the shirt that Lee was wearing at the theater. 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 02:03:37 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2018, 02:01:46 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #53 on: June 07, 2018, 11:30:13 PM »
Wes Frazier whom Oswald rode right next to on the trip to work couldn't seem to remember his shirt.
Quote
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't believe I have because most time I noticed when Lee had it, I say he put off his shirt and just wear a T-shirt the biggest part of the time so really what shirt he wore that day I really didn't see it or didn't pay enough attention to it whether he did have a shirt on.
Howard Brennan...claimed that the gunman was ?a white man in his early 30?s, slender, nice looking, slender and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds. He had on light colored clothing?
...claimed that the man was standing up when aiming the rifle, but the sash window made this impossible; it was open only up to about waist height or knee high.
....was unable to pick out Oswald out of a line-up.
He was scared? Why? Probably more from the cops than a gang or from the boogie man.

Although the Warren Commission enthusiastically promoted Brennan as the star witness in its case against Oswald, the House Select Committee on Assassinations was more sceptical, and declined to use Brennan.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2018, 12:04:31 AM »
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Wes Frazier whom Oswald rode right next to on the trip to work couldn't seem to remember his shirt.Howard Brennan...claimed that the gunman was ?a white man in his early 30?s, slender, nice looking, slender and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds. He had on light colored clothing?
...claimed that the man was standing up when aiming the rifle, but the sash window made this impossible; it was open only up to about waist height or knee high.
....was unable to pick out Oswald out of a line-up.
He was scared? Why? Probably more from the cops than a gang or from the boogie man.

Although the Warren Commission enthusiastically promoted Brennan as the star witness in its case against Oswald, the House Select Committee on Assassinations was more sceptical, and declined to use Brennan.

...claimed that the man was standing up when aiming the rifle, but the sash window made this impossible; it was open only up to about waist height or knee high.

but the sash window made this impossible;

Wait a minute.....What if Mr Brennan was not referring to the SE corner window?.....   And he wasn't...He said that he had seen the man in the light colored clothing behind the SE corner window BEFORE the motorcade arrived....NOT  during the shooting.  Read Brennan's original affidavit.....He clearly is NOT referring to the SE corner window as the place that he saw the man STANDING and aiming a HUNTING RIFLE from a window.

was unable to pick out Oswald out of a line-up.

This is dead wrong......He knew that Lee was the man that the cops wanted him to put the finger on because he'd seen the TV reports which showed Lee's photo and heard that Lee Harrrrrrvey Osssssswald ( booooo! Hissss!) was the villain.
BUT he DID identify recognize Lee Oswald in the line up.... but he told the cops that of those men in the line-up, Lee looked the most like the gunman...  but was NOT the gunman. 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 02:06:13 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2018, 12:04:31 AM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2018, 02:25:27 AM »
Arnold Rowland was interviewed by the FBI Nov 25 63
 
Quote
I looked toward the Texas School Book Depository which faces the South and is located on the corner of Elm and Houston. I observed the two rectangular windows at the extreme west end of the Texas School Book Depository next to the top floor were open. I saw what I believed to be a man standing about 12 to 15 feet back from the window on the right. He appeared to be slender in proportion to his height, was wearing a white or light colored shirt, either collarless or open at the neck. He appeared to have dark hair. He also appeared to holding a rifle with scope attached, in a ready position or in military terminology, port arms. I saw him only momentarily and he seemed to disappear in the shadows of the room.
H 16 p954

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2018, 03:09:20 AM »
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Arnold Rowland was interviewed by the FBI Nov 25 63
 H 16 p954

They decided that Rowland lied about it all because he exaggerated his grades in school and he saw something that they didn't like.

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2018, 03:09:20 AM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #57 on: June 08, 2018, 12:37:34 PM »
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Arnold Rowland was interviewed by the FBI Nov 25 63
 H 16 p954

Brennan saw the same man in basically the same place DURING the shooting.....Both Brennan and Rowland reported that the man with the high powered ( hunting)  rifle was dressed in light colored clothing.   

Lee Oswald was NOT dressed in light colored clothing at the TSBD that morning.

There were no shots fired from that SE corner window...   And I doubt that there were any shots fired from anywhere in the TSBD.

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #57 on: June 08, 2018, 12:37:34 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #58 on: June 08, 2018, 10:35:17 PM »
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Really?

Mr. BELIN - Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150, would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before?

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he came. I wouldn't be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt was a little bit darker than that whenever I saw him in the homicide office there.

Mr. BELIN - Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came up to you?
Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.

Baker said the man he saw on either the third or fourth floor ( where the lighting was poor and dimly light) was wearing a light brown ( tan or khaki) JACKET.

Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.
Mr. BELIN - Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150, would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he came. I wouldn't be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt was a little bit darker than that whenever I saw him in the homicide office there.

Baker acknowledges his awareness of TWO different shirts......The one he recalled from the TSBD was lighter than the shirt that Lee was wearing when he was arrested.

Mr. BELIN - What about when you saw him in the School Book Depository Building, does this look familiar as anything he was wearing, if you know?
Mr. BAKER - I couldn't say whether that was--it seemed to me it was a light-colored brown but I couldn't say it was that or not.
Mr. DULLES - Lighter brown did you say, I am just asking what you said. I couldn't quite hear.
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; all I can remember it was in my recollection of it it was a light brown jacket.
Mr. BELIN - Are you referring to this Exhibit 150 as being similar to the jacket or similar to the shirt that you saw or, if not, similar to either one?
Mr. BAKER - Well, it would be similar in color to it--I assume it was a jacket, it was hanging out. Now, I was looking at his face and I wasn't really paying any attention. After Mr. Truly said he knew him, so I didn't pay any attention to him, so I just turned and went on.
Mr. BELIN - Now, you did see him later at the police station, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Was he wearing anything that looked like Exhibit 150 at the police station?
Mr. BAKER - He did have a brown-type shirt on that was out.
Mr. BELIN - Did it appear to be similar to any clothing you had seen when you saw him at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. BAKER - I could have mistaken it for a jacket, but to my recollection it was a little colored jacket, that is all I can say.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2018, 02:18:49 PM »
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Mr. BELIN - Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came up to you?
Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.

Baker said the man he saw on either the third or fourth floor ( where the lighting was poor and dimly light) was wearing a light brown ( tan or khaki) JACKET.

Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.
Mr. BELIN - Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150, would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he came. I wouldn't be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt was a little bit darker than that whenever I saw him in the homicide office there.

Baker acknowledges his awareness of TWO different shirts......The one he recalled from the TSBD was lighter than the shirt that Lee was wearing when he was arrested.

Mr. BELIN - What about when you saw him in the School Book Depository Building, does this look familiar as anything he was wearing, if you know?
Mr. BAKER - I couldn't say whether that was--it seemed to me it was a light-colored brown but I couldn't say it was that or not.
Mr. DULLES - Lighter brown did you say, I am just asking what you said. I couldn't quite hear.
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; all I can remember it was in my recollection of it it was a light brown jacket.
Mr. BELIN - Are you referring to this Exhibit 150 as being similar to the jacket or similar to the shirt that you saw or, if not, similar to either one?
Mr. BAKER - Well, it would be similar in color to it--I assume it was a jacket, it was hanging out. Now, I was looking at his face and I wasn't really paying any attention. After Mr. Truly said he knew him, so I didn't pay any attention to him, so I just turned and went on.
Mr. BELIN - Now, you did see him later at the police station, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Was he wearing anything that looked like Exhibit 150 at the police station?
Mr. BAKER - He did have a brown-type shirt on that was out.
Mr. BELIN - Did it appear to be similar to any clothing you had seen when you saw him at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. BAKER - I could have mistaken it for a jacket, but to my recollection it was a little colored jacket, that is all I can say.

Mr. BAKER - I could have mistaken it for a jacket, but to my recollection it was a little colored jacket, that is all I can say.

I believe that the word "little" is a typo.....my recollection it was a LIGHT colored JACKET,




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Re: Oswald's Shirt
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2018, 02:18:49 PM »

 

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