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Author Topic: Bobby Nolan's Bullet  (Read 1581 times)

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 12:34:36 AM »
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There are lots of inconsistencies and I would suggest they do not all just magically fall on Nolan

When shown an FBI FD-302 dated November 23,1963 (Agency File Number 000919, Record # 180-l 0090-10270), she felt it was inaccurate in two respects: it quotes her as turning over “the metal fragment (singular),” whereas she is positive it was multiple fragments - it says she turned over the fragment to a Texas State Trooper, whereas she recalls turning it over to plainclothes Federal agents who were either FBI or Secret Service.

To corroborate her denial, Bell suggested that they look at the receipt she was required to fill out, which she had passed on to Parkland administrator, Jack Price. Of course, that receipt had to have been confiscated by the FBI, since it was critical to confirming the chain of custody. This is more from MD184,

She independently recalled filling out a receipt on 1l/22/63 for the fragments, on half-page sized paper with red lettering in the letterhead, which was signed for by one of two men in civilian clothes (whom she thought were Federal agents) who accepted the fragments. She said she personally delivered the original of this receipt to Parkland Hospital Administrator Jack Price. (ARRB staff promised to try to locate this document, and promised that if located, we would mail her a photocopy for verification purposes.)

But according to the National Archives, there is no record of the ARRB ever finding that receipt and the Archives were not able to find it either. So Bell's receipt, which would have confirmed the name of at least one of the men she gave the envelope to, and which had to have been taken by the FBI, seems to have evaporated.

 So there is your missing receipt

Bell acknowledged that the envelope is filled out in her hand. Bobby Nolan has likewise acknowledged that the "B.M.N." on the envelope is his doing. Both Nolan and Bell testified to one exchange: Nolan never claimed that he was twice visited by a nurse bearing gifts, nor did Bell claim that she gave out two different sets of evidence.

As the movie poster said, there can only be one. And that one is marked by both Bell and Nolan.

BTW, if you listen to the ARRB interview with Bell, at one point, either Gunn or Horne mention that an ARRB staffer wrote in a memo that he found the receipt in the archives at Parkland. I'm not sure how, or if, it panned out.   

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 12:34:36 AM »


Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 01:35:01 AM »
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Bell acknowledged that the envelope is filled out in her hand. Bobby Nolan has likewise acknowledged that the "B.M.N." on the envelope is his doing. Both Nolan and Bell testified to one exchange: Nolan never claimed that he was twice visited by a nurse bearing gifts, nor did Bell claim that she gave out two different sets of evidence.

As the movie poster said, there can only be one. And that one is marked by both Bell and Nolan.

BTW, if you listen to the ARRB interview with Bell, at one point, either Gunn or Horne mention that an ARRB staffer wrote in a memo that he found the receipt in the archives at Parkland. I'm not sure how, or if, it panned out.   

 The record overall is not to good on lost evidence, but hey you stuck with facts on this post

 Sorry Mitch I saw that profile picture and my mind just plugged in Richard Smith No wonder it didn't sound like him So please disregard the last part of the previous sentence
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 02:50:52 PM by Matt Grantham »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2018, 03:36:29 AM »
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There are lots of inconsistencies and I would suggest they do not all just magically fall on Nolan

There are not a lot of inconsistencies. There's some foggy memory though. Mostly on the part of Nolan.

Quote
When shown an FBI FD-302 dated November 23,1963 (Agency File Number 000919, Record # 180-l 0090-10270), she felt it was inaccurate in two respects: it quotes her as turning over “the metal fragment (singular),” whereas she is positive it was multiple fragments - it says she turned over the fragment to a Texas State Trooper, whereas she recalls turning it over to plainclothes Federal agents who were either FBI or Secret Service.

The handwriting on the receipt matches the handwriting on the envelope. She wrote "fragment" on the receipt instead of "fragments". Perhaps because one fragment was so much larger than the other three. When she was shown a photocopy of a photo of the fragments during her ARRB interview she said that it didn't look right because the largest fragment was the only one that she could see. She remembered that there were four or five fragments in total. FBI Agent J. Doyle Williams also referred to the fragments in the singular in his FD-302 reports on the matter. Although he may have been influenced by her written receipt. All of the documentation on the matter refers to the transfer from Audrey Bell to Bobby Nolan. 


Quote
To corroborate her denial, Bell suggested that they look at the receipt she was required to fill out, which she had passed on to Parkland administrator, Jack Price. Of course, that receipt had to have been confiscated by the FBI, since it was critical to confirming the chain of custody. This is more from MD184,

She independently recalled filling out a receipt on 1l/22/63 for the fragments, on half-page sized paper with red lettering in the letterhead, which was signed for by one of two men in civilian clothes (whom she thought were Federal agents) who accepted the fragments. She said she personally delivered the original of this receipt to Parkland Hospital Administrator Jack Price. (ARRB staff promised to try to locate this document, and promised that if located, we would mail her a photocopy for verification purposes.)

Bell said that she filled out the receipt on a "Dallas County Hospital District Office Memorandum". The man in "civilian clothes" who signed it was Bobby M Nolan. He recalled being in uniform but he was wrong. Here's from a post that longtime researcher Gary Murr made on the ED forum almost year ago exactly:

"In March of 2002 I contacted the Executive Director of the Texas DPS [Department of Public Safety] Historical Museum and Research Center, Austin, Texas. I asked this individual one specific question: Did all members of the Texas Highway Patrol always wear a uniform, in particular the typical uniform one would associate with a member of the Texas Highway Patrol, i.e. the customary State Trooper’s obligatory style hat and some form of visible badge? The answer was yes, but with a notable exception. Certain officers of the DPS/Texas Highway Patrol identified as Texas State “Troopers” were in 1963 dressed as “plain clothed officers,” a practice that continues to this very day. This same information was confirmed for me in February of 2003 by researcher Steve Thomas, whose contact with a retired Dallas police detective confirmed that he was familiar with plain clothed officers of the Texas Department of Public Safety."

Quote
But according to the National Archives, there is no record of the ARRB ever finding that receipt and the Archives were not able to find it either. So Bell's receipt, which would have confirmed the name of at least one of the men she gave the envelope to, and which had to have been taken by the FBI, seems to have evaporated.

 So there is your missing receipt

Just because staff at the National Archives cannot locate something does not mean that it isn't there. Bob Harris claims that he asked them if they had the receipt and they said they couldn't find it. Therefore, he thinks that he gets to claim that it isn't there. However, I reminded him that he had also asked them about the envelope. They looked for it and could only find a poor quality photocopy of it. Does that mean that the envelope is not at the National Archives? Of course not. We have the photograph taken of it there. The receipt is there. Gary Murr found the copy of it that I posted here.

Here is his post on the ED forum where he posted a link to the copy.

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Read what he had to say and follow through with his subsequent posts in that discussion.

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2018, 03:41:38 AM »
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Bell acknowledged that the envelope is filled out in her hand. Bobby Nolan has likewise acknowledged that the "B.M.N." on the envelope is his doing. Both Nolan and Bell testified to one exchange: Nolan never claimed that he was twice visited by a nurse bearing gifts, nor did Bell claim that she gave out two different sets of evidence.

As the movie poster said, there can only be one. And that one is marked by both Bell and Nolan.

BTW, if you listen to the ARRB interview with Bell, at one point, either Gunn or Horne mention that an ARRB staffer wrote in a memo that he found the receipt in the archives at Parkland. I'm not sure how, or if, it panned out.   

Mitch, It was Joe Freeman who wrote that memo. He was no longer with the ARRB and Gunn said in the interview that they would try to track down the copy of the receipt that the memo referred to. I don't know if they found it but Gary Murr did. Freeman's memo noted that the handwriting on the receipt appeared to be the same as that on the envelope.

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2018, 05:49:47 AM »
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The record overall is not to good on lost evidence, but hey you stuck with facts on this post

How much of that problem is actually due to lost evidence, and how much is just lost memories?

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2018, 05:49:47 AM »


Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2018, 05:57:26 AM »
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How much of that problem is actually due to lost evidence, and how much is just lost memories?

Ah! yes! thanks to Gary for finding it and to you for bringing it to my attention!

I went over to the thread on the Ed Forum and found that the thread in question had been infested by Bob Harris. At least I now know where he'd R-U-N-N-O-F-T to.

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2018, 02:52:57 PM »
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How much of that problem is actually due to lost evidence, and how much is just lost memories?

It's called accountability

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2018, 12:52:11 AM »
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It's called accountability

The question was, 'How much of that problem is actually due to lost evidence, and how much is just lost memories?' Care to try another answer without resorting to a non-sequitur?

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2018, 12:52:11 AM »


Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2018, 01:09:19 AM »
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The question was, 'How much of that problem is actually due to lost evidence, and how much is just lost memories?' Care to try another answer without resorting to a non-sequitur?


 By the way your question makes no sense Lost memories? They don't remember where they put it? That implies s chain of custody is not a responsibility of the authorizes. Thus memory is not part of the equation Your question is a non sequitir

 Even though I think I now understand your question in a different light I am letting the previous paragraph stand If you had wanted to say that perhaps it was the case that Bell had a false memory fine But it is this tactic of placing such questions seems like a tactic of LN to somehow put the onus on the opposing side to be responsible for answering questions impossible questions Pleas do not treat this as some capitulation since it is certainly not
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 03:01:51 PM by Matt Grantham »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2018, 03:53:15 AM »
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It's called accountability

What exactly do you mean? Should Bobby Nolan , and others like him, be held accountable for faulty memory of something that they were involved in fifty years ago? Please clarify what you mean.

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Re: Bobby Nolan's Bullet
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2018, 03:53:15 AM »