JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate
The Limo Bullet Fragments....
Walt Cakebread:
Lner's often cite the fragments that were recovered from the President's Lincoln as proof that the carcano was used to fire the bullet that fragmented in the Limo. (in spite of the fact that the "experts" weren't even sure that the fragments were all from one bullet.)
In a telephone conversation with LBJ on 11/23/63 J.Edgar Hoover told LBJ..."We have what we call slivers, which are not very valuable in the identification."
Joe Elliott:
--- Quote from: Walt Cakebread on May 14, 2018, 12:25:48 AM ---
Lner's often cite the fragments that were recovered from the President's Lincoln as proof that the carcano was used to fire the bullet that fragmented in the Limo. (in spite of the fact that the "experts" weren't even sure that the fragments were all from one bullet.)
In a telephone conversation with LBJ on 11/23/63 J.Edgar Hoover told LBJ..."We have what we call slivers, which are not very valuable in the identification."
--- End quote ---
The theory that the two fragments came from the same bullet fits Occam?s razor. There are two points of damage in the limousine. The cracked windshield and the dented windshield frame.
We have two theories:
Theory 1: A bullet fragmented into three. One fragment struck the windshield and cracked it and bounced back into the limousine. This fragment was found in the limousine. A second fragment from the same bullet dented the windshield frame and bounced back into the limousine. This fragment was also found in the limousine. While both the found fragments only account for 60% of the mass of a bullet, a third fragment must have just cleared the windshield and sun visors and wounded Mr. Tague.
Theory 2: Two bullets fragmented. One fragmented into two. One fragment hit the windshield and another fragment just cleared the windshield. The second bullet fragmented into two. One struck the windshield and the second also just cleared the windshield. Resulting in only two of the four fragments being found in the limousine.
While one bullet might fragment, causing one or more fragments to just hit the limousine, and one or more fragments to just clear the limousine, this is unlikely to occur twice, which Theory 2 requires. Also, with any luck, if Theory 2 was true, we might expect the two recovered fragments to weigh more than one bullet, which would alert us that these fragments came from two different bullets. But, as luck would have it, this didn?t happen.
Also, we have reason to believe only one bullet would fragment. We only have one wound that would cause such a bullet to fragment, JFK?s head wound. Only this wound would cause a bullet to strike bone with enough velocity to fragment. The wound in Connnally?s chest and wrist, is too far down to go on to hit the windshield, without striking the seat in front of him and too much flesh must be passed through, slowing the bullet too much to fragment in any case.
Theory 1, which is the simpler and more likely theory, is the one we should adopt, unless decisive evidence came up for Theory 2.
Matt Grantham:
Are you including what was found in JFK's skull at Bethesda?
Martin Weidmann:
--- Quote from: Joe Elliott on May 14, 2018, 02:22:12 AM ---The theory that the two fragments came from the same bullet fits Occam?s razor. There are two points of damage in the limousine. The cracked windshield and the dented windshield frame.
We have two theories:
Theory 1: A bullet fragmented into three. One fragment struck the windshield and cracked it and bounced back into the limousine. This fragment was found in the limousine. A second fragment from the same bullet dented the windshield frame and bounced back into the limousine. This fragment was also found in the limousine. While both the found fragments only account for 60% of the mass of a bullet, a third fragment must have just cleared the windshield and sun visors and wounded Mr. Tague.
Theory 2: Two bullets fragmented. One fragmented into two. One fragment hit the windshield and another fragment just cleared the windshield. The second bullet fragmented into two. One struck the windshield and the second also just cleared the windshield. Resulting in only two of the four fragments being found in the limousine.
While one bullet might fragment, causing one or more fragments to just hit the limousine, and one or more fragments to just clear the limousine, this is unlikely to occur twice, which Theory 2 requires. Also, with any luck, if Theory 2 was true, we might expect the two recovered fragments to weigh more than one bullet, which would alert us that these fragments came from two different bullets. But, as luck would have it, this didn?t happen.
Also, we have reason to believe only one bullet would fragment. We only have one wound that would cause such a bullet to fragment, JFK?s head wound. Only this wound would cause a bullet to strike bone with enough velocity to fragment. The wound in Connnally?s chest and wrist, is too far down to go on to hit the windshield, without striking the seat in front of him and too much flesh must be passed through, slowing the bullet too much to fragment in any case.
Theory 1, which is the simpler and more likely theory, is the one we should adopt, unless decisive evidence came up for Theory 2.
--- End quote ---
We have two theories:
Theories? Really?
And since when are theories evidence in any shape or form?
Here's a bombshell; we don't even know for sure which (if any) of the fragments were actually found in the limo.
With an FBI team on their way to examine the limo forensically some completely unauthorised and unqualified guys went through the limo and allegedly removed physical evidence from it. Later, when they gave them to the FBI, they claimed these were the actual fragments that had been taken from the car. Evidence tampering 101?
Once again, like on so many other occassions in this case; no photographs in situ, no first hand forensic expertise involved in handling the evidence and no chain of custody by any reasonable standard of the law....
So, all you have are theories..... please give me a break!
Joe Elliott:
--- Quote from: Martin Weidmann on May 14, 2018, 03:24:17 AM ---
We have two theories:
Theories? Really?
And since when are theories evidence in any shape or form?
Here's a bombshell; we don't even know for sure which (if any) of the fragments were actually found in the limo.
With an FBI team on their way to examine the limo forensically some completely unauthorised and unqualified guys went through the limo and allegedly removed physical evidence from it. Later, when they gave them to the FBI, they claimed these were the actual fragments that had been taken from the car. Evidence tampering 101?
Once again, like on so many other occassions in this case; no photographs in situ, no first hand forensic expertise involved in handling the evidence and no chain of custody by any reasonable standard of the law....
--- End quote ---
These ?other guys? were Secret Service agents. Of course, you live in a conspiracy world, where everyone is suspect. Where this alleged conspiracy can recruit anyone they need to with no problem. The autopsy doctors. The Secret Service agents. The Dallas police. No problem at all, for believers in Large Secret Enduring Conspiracies.
--- Quote from: Martin Weidmann on May 14, 2018, 03:24:17 AM ---
So, all you have are theories..... please give me a break!
--- End quote ---
Reasonable people have theories. Unreasonable people have established truths in their heads that they cannot seriously question.
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