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Author Topic: Two caskets arrive at Behesda  (Read 9827 times)

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2018, 08:11:02 PM »
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Dennis David said that the black Hearse arrived at about 6:45pm. O'Connor didn't give a time of arrival.

 Indeed David originally estimated the time as 6.45 but also stated

 Dennis David?s account of the arrival of the black hearse, with the shipping casket, prior to the arrival of the naval ambulance at the front ("a good 20 minutes before," said David

 Thus when the log entry of 6.35 became known years later this matched perfectly between the 20 minutes between the shipping casket at 6.35 and the ambulance from Andrews at 6.55

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2018, 08:11:02 PM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2018, 08:22:55 PM »
Indeed David originally estimated the time as 6.45 but also stated

 Dennis David?s account of the arrival of the black hearse, with the shipping casket, prior to the arrival of the naval ambulance at the front ("a good 20 minutes before," said David

 Thus when the log entry of 6.35 became known years later this matched perfectly between the 20 minutes between the shipping casket at 6.35 and the ambulance from Andrews at 6.55

The ambulance from Andrews arrived at 7:15, not 6:55.

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2018, 08:27:03 PM »
Custer described the casket that Kennedy's body was brought in as a bronze ceremonial casket. VanHoesen recalled the broken lugs on one of the handles. Jenkins said that the casket was brown in color. How do any of those corroborate a 6:35 arrival of a grey shipping casket?

 On O'Connor .His statements match perfectly he just does not give an exact time

Right after we heard the helicopters come over, I distinctly heard one land in the back of the hospital, which was the Officer?s Club parking lot.  There was a big parking lot.  I heard one helicopter land there.  I heard another helicopter land at the north side of the hospital where there was a normal helicopter-landing pad.  Several minutes later, I can?t give you a definite time ? maybe five minutes ? the back of the morgue opened up and a crew of hospital corpsmen and a higher ranking corpsman brought in a plain, pinkish-gray, what I call a shipping casket.  It was not ornate.  It was not damaged?. They brought it up front where we were.  At that time we opened up the coffin.  Inside was the body bag.

  I will get back on the others Some of the confirmation is in regard to the body bag that several describe Do you disagree that a body bag is a problem?

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2018, 08:27:03 PM »


Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2018, 08:29:35 PM »
The ambulance from Andrews arrived at 7:15, not 6:55.

 No the ambulance, and the Presidential entourage arrived at 6.55 and Greer for some reason remained parked out front for 15 minutes or so At 7.17 they took the bronze casket to the ante room of the morgue

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2018, 09:16:41 PM »
 And to go a step further

So why does Horne conclude that H&B illicitly removed (and altered) the brain shortly after 6:35 PM, before any X-rays were taken, and before the official autopsy began? He here introduces two intriguing witnesses ? the two R's, namely Reed and Robinson. Edward Reed was assistant to Jerrol Custer (the radiology tech), while Tom Robinson was a mortician. Rather consistently with one another, but quite independently, both describe critical steps taken by H&B that no one else reports. (Horne documents why no one else reported these events ? almost everyone else had been evicted from the morgue before this clandestine interlude.) After the body was placed on the morgue table (and before X-rays were taken), Reed briefly sat in the gallery.18 Reed states19 that Humes first used a scalpel across the top of the forehead to pull the scalp back. Then he used a saw to cut the forehead bone, after which he (and Custer, too) were asked to leave the morgue.

 Also according to Horne no one describes the metal head brace that we see in the official autopsy photos This leads to the rather easy conclusion that those photos were taken at a different time Also explains why Stringer did not take them

Regarding Robinson, Horne concludes that he arrived with the hearse that brought the body (i.e., the first entry). After that, Robinson simply observed events from the morgue gallery; contrary to Reed's experience, he was not asked to leave. Just before 7 PM, Robinson22 saw H&B remove large portions of the rear and top of the skull with a saw, in order to access the brain. (Robinson was not aware that this activity was off the record.) He also observed ten or more bullet fragments extracted from the brain. Although these do not appear in the official record, Dennis David recalls23 preparing a receipt for at least four fragments.24


Horne adds an independent argument for multiple casket entries.27 Pierre Finck told the Journal of the American Medical Association28 that he was at home when Humes telephoned him at 7:30 PM. (In his 2/1/65 report to General Blumberg he cites 8 PM.29) Finck, as a forensic pathologist, had been asked to assist with the autopsy. As further confirmation for Finck's overall timeline, he arrived (see his Blumberg report) at the morgue at 8:30 PM. But here is the clincher: during this phone call, Humes told Finck that X-rays had already been taken ? and had already been viewed. On the other hand, the official entry time (with the Joint Service Casket Team) was at 8 PM! If that indeed was the one and only entry time, how then could X-rays have been taken ? let alone developed and viewed (a process of 30 minutes minimum) ? even before the official entry time?


 Evidence that there was to be a helicopter to take JFK's body from Andrews to Bethesda

The AF1 tapes reveal unambiguously that Gerald Behn in the White House situation room wanted to separate Mrs. Kennedy (hereafter referred to by her initials, JBK) and all other VIP passengers who were not Secret Service agents from the Dallas casket.  Although JFK?s Military Aide, General Ted Clifton (code name ?Watchman?), initially insisted on an autopsy at Walter Reed Hospital and the use of a mortuary-type ambulance for transportation, he eventually fell into line with ?Crown?s? demands and then actively supported Behn?s orders.  Here are some telling quotes from the Clifton tapes:

Digest:                        Walter Reed ambulance for body that will go to Walter Reed, over?

Duplex:                       Say again, say again.

Digest (Kellerman):   ?[we need] an ambulance from Walter Reed to transport body, over?

Duplex (Behn):        Arrangements have been made for a helicopter for the Bethesda Naval Medical Center, over.

Digest:                          Standby, jerry?ah, I?ll have to get Burkley here.

A short time later Behn clarified his intentions:

Duplex:   The, everybody aboard Air Force One, everybody aboard Air Force One, with the exception of the body, will be choppered into the South Grounds [of the White House].  The body will be choppered to the Navy Medical Center at Bethesda, over.

Burkley:  The body will be choppered or will go by ambulance to the Navy Medical Center?

Duplex:     Will be choppered, will be choppered.




  For me personally this information really clears up the picture at Bethesda So many contradictions and mystery's before it was overwhelming It amazing when anything about this event becomes clearer

« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 10:08:14 PM by Matt Grantham »

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2018, 09:16:41 PM »


Offline Mike Orr

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2018, 10:38:26 PM »
Matt , this is some very good info on the 2 caskets . I think that Dennis David, being such a good eye witness in the movements that were made with the body of JFK ,brings this 2 casket scenario into what took place at Bethesda that night. Dennis David never believed that LCMDR Pitzer took his own life . Matt, your information and web sites have been very good . Good work , Matt !

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2018, 11:32:57 PM »
On O'Connor .His statements match perfectly he just does not give an exact time

Right after we heard the helicopters come over, I distinctly heard one land in the back of the hospital, which was the Officer?s Club parking lot.  There was a big parking lot.  I heard one helicopter land there.  I heard another helicopter land at the north side of the hospital where there was a normal helicopter-landing pad.  Several minutes later, I can?t give you a definite time ? maybe five minutes ? the back of the morgue opened up and a crew of hospital corpsmen and a higher ranking corpsman brought in a plain, pinkish-gray, what I call a shipping casket.  It was not ornate.  It was not damaged?. They brought it up front where we were.  At that time we opened up the coffin.  Inside was the body bag.

  I will get back on the others Some of the confirmation is in regard to the body bag that several describe Do you disagree that a body bag is a problem?

Custer recalled that the body was wrapped in sheets. He never saw a body bag.

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2018, 11:32:57 PM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2018, 11:34:12 PM »
No the ambulance, and the Presidential entourage arrived at 6.55 and Greer for some reason remained parked out front for 15 minutes or so At 7.17 they took the bronze casket to the ante room of the morgue

Dennis David said that the black hearse arrived at the loading dock about 6:45 and that the grey ambulance arrived out front about 30 minutes later.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708#relPageId=3&tab=page