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Author Topic: Two caskets arrive at Behesda  (Read 9801 times)

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2018, 11:45:30 PM »
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And to go a step further

So why does Horne conclude that H&B illicitly removed (and altered) the brain shortly after 6:35 PM, before any X-rays were taken, and before the official autopsy began? He here introduces two intriguing witnesses ? the two R's, namely Reed and Robinson. Edward Reed was assistant to Jerrol Custer (the radiology tech), while Tom Robinson was a mortician. Rather consistently with one another, but quite independently, both describe critical steps taken by H&B that no one else reports. (Horne documents why no one else reported these events ? almost everyone else had been evicted from the morgue before this clandestine interlude.) After the body was placed on the morgue table (and before X-rays were taken), Reed briefly sat in the gallery.18 Reed states19 that Humes first used a scalpel across the top of the forehead to pull the scalp back. Then he used a saw to cut the forehead bone, after which he (and Custer, too) were asked to leave the morgue.

 Also according to Horne no one describes the metal head brace that we see in the official autopsy photos This leads to the rather easy conclusion that those photos were taken at a different time Also explains why Stringer did not take them

Regarding Robinson, Horne concludes that he arrived with the hearse that brought the body (i.e., the first entry). After that, Robinson simply observed events from the morgue gallery; contrary to Reed's experience, he was not asked to leave. Just before 7 PM, Robinson22 saw H&B remove large portions of the rear and top of the skull with a saw, in order to access the brain. (Robinson was not aware that this activity was off the record.) He also observed ten or more bullet fragments extracted from the brain. Although these do not appear in the official record, Dennis David recalls23 preparing a receipt for at least four fragments.24


Horne adds an independent argument for multiple casket entries.27 Pierre Finck told the Journal of the American Medical Association28 that he was at home when Humes telephoned him at 7:30 PM. (In his 2/1/65 report to General Blumberg he cites 8 PM.29) Finck, as a forensic pathologist, had been asked to assist with the autopsy. As further confirmation for Finck's overall timeline, he arrived (see his Blumberg report) at the morgue at 8:30 PM. But here is the clincher: during this phone call, Humes told Finck that X-rays had already been taken ? and had already been viewed. On the other hand, the official entry time (with the Joint Service Casket Team) was at 8 PM! If that indeed was the one and only entry time, how then could X-rays have been taken ? let alone developed and viewed (a process of 30 minutes minimum) ? even before the official entry time?


 Evidence that there was to be a helicopter to take JFK's body from Andrews to Bethesda

The AF1 tapes reveal unambiguously that Gerald Behn in the White House situation room wanted to separate Mrs. Kennedy (hereafter referred to by her initials, JBK) and all other VIP passengers who were not Secret Service agents from the Dallas casket.  Although JFK?s Military Aide, General Ted Clifton (code name ?Watchman?), initially insisted on an autopsy at Walter Reed Hospital and the use of a mortuary-type ambulance for transportation, he eventually fell into line with ?Crown?s? demands and then actively supported Behn?s orders.  Here are some telling quotes from the Clifton tapes:

Digest:                        Walter Reed ambulance for body that will go to Walter Reed, over?

Duplex:                       Say again, say again.

Digest (Kellerman):   ?[we need] an ambulance from Walter Reed to transport body, over?

Duplex (Behn):        Arrangements have been made for a helicopter for the Bethesda Naval Medical Center, over.

Digest:                          Standby, jerry?ah, I?ll have to get Burkley here.

A short time later Behn clarified his intentions:

Duplex:   The, everybody aboard Air Force One, everybody aboard Air Force One, with the exception of the body, will be choppered into the South Grounds [of the White House].  The body will be choppered to the Navy Medical Center at Bethesda, over.

Burkley:  The body will be choppered or will go by ambulance to the Navy Medical Center?

Duplex:     Will be choppered, will be choppered.

  For me personally this information really clears up the picture at Bethesda So many contradictions and mystery's before it was overwhelming It amazing when anything about this event becomes clearer

Reed told the ARRB that the body was not in a body bag. Robinson said that the autopsy was already underway when he arrived. So, how could Horne possibly conclude that he arrived with the hearse that brought the body?

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2018, 11:45:30 PM »


Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2018, 11:47:08 PM »
Dennis David said that the black hearse arrived at the loading dock about 6:45 and that the grey ambulance arrived out front about 30 minutes later.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708#relPageId=3&tab=page

 Lets have it your way We still have JFK's body arriving in a separate casket before the bronze (empty) casket arrives with the motorcade

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2018, 11:49:11 PM »
Matt , this is some very good info on the 2 caskets . I think that Dennis David, being such a good eye witness in the movements that were made with the body of JFK ,brings this 2 casket scenario into what took place at Bethesda that night. Dennis David never believed that LCMDR Pitzer took his own life . Matt, your information and web sites have been very good . Good work , Matt !

 Thanks Mike I DO appreciate it I suppose it is almost embarrassing that I had not hear d about it earlier, but it really clears up the picture

Thanks also for the heads up on Pitzer David was certainly involved with some interesting stuff
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 12:49:31 AM by Matt Grantham »

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2018, 11:49:11 PM »


Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2018, 11:52:13 PM »
Reed told the ARRB that the body was not in a body bag. Robinson said that the autopsy was already underway when he arrived. So, how could Horne possibly conclude that he arrived with the hearse that brought the body?

 Again Tim happy to concede the point that the body bag information is not correct or relevant Still does not change the overwhelming evidence of JFK's body arriving before the motorcade

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2018, 11:52:16 PM »
Lets have it your way We still have JFK's body arriving in a separate casket before the bronze (empty) casket arrives with the motorcade

Nope. That's not what happened. Kennedy's body arrived in the bronze ceremonial casket. That casket was not left unattended from the time that Kennedy's body was placed in it at Parkland to the time it was opened at Bethesda.

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2018, 11:52:16 PM »


Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2018, 12:11:42 AM »
Nope. That's not what happened. Kennedy's body arrived in the bronze ceremonial casket. That casket was not left unattended from the time that Kennedy's body was placed in it at Parkland to the time it was opened at Bethesda.

 Was David supposedly being either being 5 to 10 minutes off, or the mere mention of a body bag a major factor in forming that opinion?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 12:48:04 AM by Matt Grantham »

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2018, 03:33:57 PM »
 A few questions remain that I am having some difficulty with Was the casket switch before AF 1 takes off or after? The alteration of  the rear head wound happens only for the photographs during the illicit autopsy People seem to state that they see the rear head wound during the official autopsy

 Also pretty confused on the stories about the delivery of the bronze casket There seems to be solid evidence that the bronze casket is brought into the anteroom of the morgue at 7.17 But then there are the stories that the honor guard loses possession of the casket, chases a decoy ambulance that loses them, and then they magically find the casket again outside the morgue loading dock with JFK's body in it at exactly 8.00 Did the casket disappear from the anteroom or were the honor guard just confuse

 

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2018, 03:33:57 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Two caskets arrive at Behesda
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2018, 03:27:55 AM »

Was David supposedly being either being 5 to 10 minutes off, or the mere mention of a body bag a major factor in forming that opinion?


Probably both and anything else that Tim can throw at it to dismiss the story out of hand.

The elephant in the room is of course that there is just too much evidence to support the two casket scenario, so Tim just cherry picks the small errors in testimony of a number of people to basically claim it all never happened.