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Author Topic: The Magic Bullet  (Read 94029 times)

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #216 on: May 28, 2018, 03:33:07 AM »
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With 2 lasers you can simulate the bullet's straight line trajectory thru JFK's back/neck. Point the 2 lasers at one another as depicted in my graphic to form 1 beam. Now get in between them so that the bottom laser strikes your throat below the Adam's apple at approx. C6. Does the top laser strike your back at T1? If not, reposition your body so that it does. Then take a couple of pics showing your body position and post them to support your claims.
I am not sure how that is any more accurate than a putting perfectly straight line through a 3d model at an angle that can be measured to within 1/100th of a degree. But since you have already tried it, you should be able to show us your photos.  Where are they? How can they possibly be materially different than this photo?
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You can do the same for Connally's back wound. Then superimpose your surrogates onto the same photo to show how their bodies must have been orientated to make the MB work. I couldn't do it without bending over so much that the bottom laser struck my chin.
I agree with you that the path from the SN through JFK's neck exit wound does not strike JBC in the right armpit or anywhere on the right side.  But it is not because it goes too high. It goes too far to the left. You have to use the correct relative seat positions. You can get those from photos, such as Croft's. JFK's head was about 4" higher than JBC and about 30" behind. That put his neck exit wound about 24" from the plane of JBC's back.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 03:39:05 AM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #216 on: May 28, 2018, 03:33:07 AM »


Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #217 on: May 28, 2018, 04:05:48 AM »
I am not sure how that is any more accurate than a putting perfectly straight line through a 3d model at an angle that can be measured to within 1/100th of a degree. But since you have already tried it, you should be able to show us your photos.  Where are they? How can they possibly be materially different than this photo?

You trust CGI to your detriment. I can make CGI do anything I want, but what use is that? I'm a photogrammetrist and I know that there is nothing better than a physical re-enactment using surrogates. It's cheap, easy and deadly accurate and anyone can participate. Why would you look to CGI for answers? It's made up BS. I don't post my photos because I can't prove a negative with them. This is for the LNers to show that the MB was possible.

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I agree with you that the path from the SN through JFK's neck exit wound does not strike JBC in the right armpit or anywhere on the right side.  But it is not because it goes too high. It goes too far to the left. You have to use the correct relative seat positions. You can get those from photos, such as Croft's. JFK's head was about 4" higher than JBC and about 30" behind. That put his neck exit wound about 24" from the plane of JBC's back.

Let's stick to JFK for now. If you can't demonstrate that the MB thru JFK works, then what it did thru Connally is irrelevant.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 04:37:53 AM by Jack Trojan »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #218 on: May 28, 2018, 05:00:45 AM »
You trust CGI to your detriment. I can make CGI do anything I want, but what use is that? I'm a photogrammetrist and I know that there is nothing better than a physical re-enactment using surrogates. It's cheap, easy and deadly accurate and anyone can participate. Why would you look to CGI for answers? It's made up BS. I don't post my photos because I can't prove a negative with them. This is for the LNers to show that the MB was possible.

Let's stick to JFK for now. If you can't demonstrate that the MB thru JFK works, then what it did thru Connally is irrelevant.
Your point seems to be that a shot on a downward 17 degree cannot enter JFK's back and exit his throat in a way that matches the vertical positions of his wounds. That it can match those positions is easily demonstrated by the Croft photo with a downward 17 degree arrow superimposed on it. It also shows that the path goes above JBC's seatback.

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #218 on: May 28, 2018, 05:00:45 AM »


Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #219 on: May 28, 2018, 01:50:38 PM »
Even Specter got it wrong in the above photo. Look where he has the line exiting "JFK's" throat. It is well above the tie knot. Using a  line through the tie  the bullet would have hit the back of the car seat.
The jump seats in the president's car were mounted directly on the floor. These seats are much higher. 

This photo actually shows the path of the second shot that actually hit Connally and just missed JFK. Hickey said that the second shot looked like it missed JFK because the hair on JFK's head flew forward on the second shot. 


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #220 on: May 28, 2018, 03:09:39 PM »
The jump seats in the president's car were mounted directly on the floor. These seats are much higher. 

This photo actually shows the path of the second shot that actually hit Connally and just missed JFK. Hickey said that the second shot looked like it missed JFK because the hair on JFK's head flew forward on the second shot.

The bullet did not miss.

11/22/63
"The president was slumped to the left in the car and I observed him come up. I heard what appeared to be two shots and it seemed that the right side of his head was hit and his hair flew forward."

Samuel A. Kinney
Special Agent

,.... at the President and it appeared that he had been shot because he slumped to the left. Immediately he sat up again.* At this time the second shot was fired and I observed hair flying from the right side of his head

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #220 on: May 28, 2018, 03:09:39 PM »


Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #221 on: May 28, 2018, 03:59:29 PM »
The bullet did not miss.

11/22/63
"The president was slumped to the left in the car and I observed him come up. I heard what appeared to be two shots and it seemed that the right side of his head was hit and his hair flew forward."

Samuel A. Kinney
Special Agent

,.... at the President and it appeared that he had been shot because he slumped to the left. Immediately he sat up again.* At this time the second shot was fired and I observed hair flying from the right side of his head
You missed Hickey's observation (18 H 762):
  • He was slumped forward and to his left, and was straightening up to an almost erect sitting position as I turned and looked. At the moment he was almost sitting erect I heard two reports which I thought were shots and that appeared to me completely different in sound than the first report and were in such rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element between them. It looked to me as if the President was struck in the right upper rear of his head. The first shot of the second two seemed as if it missed because the hair on the right side of his head flew forward and there didn't seem to be any impact against his head. The last shot seemed to hit his head and cause a noise at the point of impact which made him fall forward and to his left again.

That is consistent with what Kinney reported on the second shot, although Kinney is not as clear.

Now, if you follow the evidence, Hickey says he turned and looked at the President just before the second shot and continued to look as the third shot sounded. In Altgens' photo taken at z256, Hickey is still turned to the rear. So Hickey's observations are consistent only with the second shot after z256, which is also what Altgens said. This also fits with the 40+ witnesses who said that the last two shots were closer together. It also fits with the 22+ witnesses who said that JFK reacted to the first shot.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 04:06:44 PM by Andrew Mason »

Offline Ray Mitcham

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #222 on: May 28, 2018, 05:30:09 PM »
The shot hit the President under the shoulder blade, Andrew. Not in the neck.

Glen Bennett:
Glen Bennett was the secret service agent sitting in the right rear seat of the Secret service follow-up car. From Bennett?s secret service report written on 23/11/63:
?About thirty minutes after leaving Love Field about 12:25 P.M., the Motorcade entered an intersection and then proceeded down a grade. At this point the well-wishers numbered but a few; the motorcade continued down this grade enroute to the Trade Mart. At this point I heard what sounded like a fire-cracker. I immediately looked from the right/crowd/physical area/and looked towards the President who was seated in the right rear seat of his limousine open convertible. At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another fire-cracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder. A second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the President's head. I immediately hollered "he's hit" and reached for the AR-15 located on the floor of the rear seat. Special Agent Hickey had already picked-up the AR-15?

Clint Hill
Secret Service agent Clint Hill, who was called to the morgue for the specific purpose of viewing Kennedy's wounds, said the entrance point was "about six inches below the neckline to the right-hand side of the spinal column" (18:77-78). Hill's placement of the wound corresponds closely to the location of the holes in the President's shirt and coat.
The FBI's 9 December 1963 report on the autopsy, which was based on the report of two FBI agents who attended the autopsy (James Sibert and Francis O'Neill), located the wound below the shoulder (i.e., below the top of the shoulder blade) (18:83, 149-168).
Three Navy medical technicians who assisted with the autopsy, James Jenkins, Paul O'Connor, and Edward Reed, have stated that the wound was well below the neck. Jenkins and O'Connor have also reported that it was probed repeatedly and that the autopsy doctors determined that it had no point of exit (10:260, 262, 302-303; 63:720).
* Floyd Riebe, one of the photographers who took pictures at the autopsy, recalls that the back wound was probed and that it was well below the neck (10:162-163, 302).

Former Bethesda lab assistant Jan Gail Rudnicki, who was present for much of the autopsy, says the wound was "several inches down on the back" (10:206).
* Former Parkland nurse Diana Bowron, who washed the President's body before it was placed in the casket, has indicated that the back wound was two to three inches below the hole shown in the alleged autopsy photo of JFK's back, and this hole, by the HSCA's own admission, is about two inches lower than where the WC placed the wound. In other words, Nurse Bowron located the wound five to six inches below the neck, and at the same time challenged the authenticity of the alleged autopsy picture of the President's back.
In the transcript of the 27 January 1964 executive session of the Warren Commission, we read that chief counsel J. Lee Rankin said the bullet entered Kennedy's back below the shoulder blade (63:632). Rankin even referred to a picture which he said showed that "the bullet entered below the shoulder blade" (68:78-79).
 Secret Service agent Roy Kellerman, who got a very good look at the President's body, said the wound was "in the shoulder."
Three recently released HSCA wound diagrams place the wound well below the neck, and in fact in almost the exact same spot shown on the autopsy face sheet. The diagrams were drawn for Select Committee investigators by Kellerman, Sibert, and O'Neill, each of whom got a very good, prolonged look at the body. This shows that when Kellerman said the wound was "in the shoulder," he meant it was visibly below the top of the right shoulder blade. Each agent placed the wound well below the neck, and visibly below the throat wound
Former HSCA investigator Gaeton Fonzi has this to say about the idea that JFK's shirt bunched along with the coat:
Kennedy was one of the best-tailored presidents ever to occupy the White House, and if it is possible--but not probable--that he was wearing a suit jacket baggy enough to ride up five or six inches in the back when he waved his arm, it is inconceivable that a tightly buttoned shirt could have done the same thing. (61:27).
Dr. Humes, in the Rydberg drawing, which he supervised, located the wound two inches higher than where the HSCA placed it. Dr. Boswell, on the other hand, prepared an autopsy face sheet diagram showing the wound five to six inches below the neck.
The written measurements for the back wound, which were placed in the margin on Dr. Boswell's face sheet diagram, place the wound on the neck.
But the HSCA said the wound was nearly two inches lower than where Dr. Boswell later claimed it was. Furthermore, the written measurements for the back wound are penned in ink, whereas the rest of the face sheet is in pencil, indicating they were not written at the same time as the other face-sheet notations, which in turn suggests they were added at a later date. Sylvia Meagher makes a good point about the suspicious measurements:
. . . since the diagram purported to show the location of the wounds, it is hard to understand why those measurements were recorded in the margin--recorded only for this particular wound but not for other wounds, scars, or incisions, and written in heavier ink than the other notations found on the same diagram. (17:140-141, original emphasis)
Are we to believe that it is merely a coincidence that Dr. Boswell's dot for the back wound on the face sheet diagram just happens to conform to the location of the holes in JFK's shirt and coat? Are we also to attribute to chance the fact that Dr. Boswell's diagram places the wound in the same area that the death certificate locates it? Are we simply supposed to ignore the fact that Dr. Boswell's diagram of the back wound agrees with the testimony of several credible witnesses, including four medical technicians, one of the autopsy photographers, a doctor who attended the autopsy, and three federal agents?
Henry Hurt's 1985 summary of the medical evidence as it relates to the single-bullet theory. Hurt, a former Rockefeller Foundation fellow, spent years investigating the assassination.
?One of the most fragile underpinnings of the official version of President Kennedy's murder is the proposition that a bullet entered his back, passed through his body, exited from his lower neck, and went on to pass through Governor Connally. Official medical experts largely agree that this is what happened. If it did not happen this way, it is generally agreed, then there was a second assassin, and thus a conspiracy. The whole flimsy case becomes unglued. Enormous official effort has gone into trying to prove this particular point. Comedy has flashed through the outrageous as doctors arbitrarily moved the location of the back wound several inches upward so that it could be high enough to manage a logical exit from the front of the neck--even though the bullet, which the Warren Commission said hit no bones in Kennedy, was supposedly moving at a sharply downward angle when it entered Kennedy's back. It was a tough case to make, and few people ever believed the government's feeble account. Still, though, it is the official version.
Government officials and their supporters have worked over the years to maintain this legend. Some apparently perjured themselves in service to their cause. Meanwhile, a lone citizen was pursuing the question from quite a different angle. Of the millions of Americans who believed the official version to be a lie, Harold Weisberg set out to prove it so. Alone, he has come far closer to making his case on this point than the whole United States government has in defending its.
Weisberg did not focus on the location of the back wound. He accepted that the body chart drawn and later disavowed by Commander Boswell was correct in showing the back wound to be between five and six inches below President Kennedy's collar line. . . . Weisberg was far more interested in the wound in the front of the neck that was supposed to be the exit for the bullet in the back. The autopsy report, which was embraced by the Warren Commission, described this wound as being in the "low anterior neck."
That front neck wound, of course, was largely believed to have been one of entry by those experienced observers at Parkland Hospital. That was the thrust of their initial impressions and was stated several times at a press briefing at the hospital by a White House official. But the official version ruled that it was a wound of exit and suggested that the exiting bullet caused the nick on the side of the knot of the President's tie. The government version also suggested that the slits through the front of the neckband of the President's shirt were caused by an exiting bullet.
The initial difficulty with the government's case was that the FBI laboratory--after spectrographic analysis--could find no metal traces on the tie or the neckband of the collar, traces that should have been there if a bullet had caused the damage.
The second major problem was one that often plagued the commission: a highly credible witness who saw and said things that contradicted the larger picture. Dr. Charles Carrico, the doctor who examined Kennedy in the emergency room before his shirt and tie were removed, testified to the Warren Commission (and later confirmed in an interview) that the anterior [front] neck wound was above the knot of his tie. A wound location this high in the front would render fatuous the whole teetering premise of the Warren Commission. (The commission ignored Dr. Carrico's testimony on this point, even though he was the doctor in the best position to have any direct knowledge.)
Weisberg pressed his case in court to have the National Archives release clear photographs of the President's shirt and tie, because the pictures that had been provided by the FBI to the Warren Commission were unclear and virtually worthless. The photographs finally disclosed to Weisberg show that the suggested bullet holes in the shirt's front neckband are not bullet holes at all. They are slits made by scalpels used by nurses to cut off the President's necktie. One nurse who cut off the clothing confirmed this, adding impressive evidence to Weisberg's observations. The other astonishing confirmation is that the bullet hole in the back of the shirt is precisely where the first body chart placed it. That chart had been ignored by the commission and disavowed by the doctor who prepared it.
The testimony of Dr. Carrico, combined with the revelations in the photographs, shows with absolute certainty to almost any layman that the bullet that entered Kennedy's back nearly six inches below his collar at a sharply downward angle could not possibly have exited from Kennedy's neck, above the collar, where Dr. Carrico saw the wound. (71:58-60, original emphasis)
One of the seven Warren Commisison members, Senator Richard Russell had this (recorded) conversation with his good buddy, President Lyndon Johnson:

RUSSELL: - The commission believes that the same bullet that hit Kennedy hit Connally. Well, I don't believe it.
JOHNSON: - I don't either.

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #222 on: May 28, 2018, 05:30:09 PM »


Offline Mike Orr

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #223 on: May 28, 2018, 06:12:58 PM »
Give it up ! There are so many who feel that Humes did a very poor autopsy ( Humes had never done a shooting autopsy , EVER ) and you can tell by all of the mistakes that were made . Jerry Ford moved the placement of the back wound up to the base of the neck and Specter still couldn't make it come out right . One of the biggest cases ever and it was bumbled up so bad that Dr. Cyril Wecht said the 26 volumes of the Warren Commission Report should be moved from Non Fiction to Fiction ! An extremely sad state of affairs