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Author Topic: The Magic Bullet  (Read 94043 times)

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #88 on: March 29, 2018, 01:56:37 PM »
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I don't know if he needed them or not.  Maybe he just wanted new ones.  Maybe the ones that were there were broken and the story about a news reporter breaking them was contrived to explain an inconvenient photo.

Why would they have "had to have given permission"?  Have you seen the lease?

I don't see how that makes anything "urgent".

No it doesn't.  You're assuming that he went to Irving to get his gun and then interpreting his actions under that light.  There's no evidence that he ever got a gun.

Does that mean he couldn't have been carrying anything?  Does that mean he couldn't have taken something with him when he left and dropped it somewhere else, given it to somebody, left it at the bus station, or any number of other possibilities?
If he actually had curtain rods, why would he not take them home?  Let's suppose that he was carrying a package of curtain rods when he left the TSBD that the police,  the bus driver, bus passengers, taxi driver and Earlene Roberts all missed. Where are the curtain rods?
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How do you know he lied about the contents when you don't know what the contents were or even exactly what he said about it?  The answer is, you don't.
Oswald denied he had curtain rods. Why would he say that if he actually had curtain rods?  If Buell Frazier and Linnie Mae Randall did not collude to fabricate their evidence, then Oswald lied about the curtain rods.  So you are essentially saying that BF/LMR lied. So I guess they were in on the conspiracy to assassinate JFK. That does not explain Oswald's behaviour in leaving the TSBD getting his gun, killing Officer Tippit, and pulling his gun in the Texas Theater and saying "It's all over now".  Oh, right, you don't believe that evidence so it is not evidence - just assumptions.

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Marina saw a part of a wooden stock that she took to be a rifle rolled up in a blanket in early October.  How is that evidence that the C2766 rifle was in the Paine's garage on 11/21-22?
By itself, it is not conclusive. But there is evidence that Oswald owned only one rifle and no evidence that he owned more than one rifle. So if she saw a rifle stock, that is evidence that tends to show that Oswald's rifle was there.  The paper trail linking C2766 to Oswald via his mail box and his use of the A.J. Hidell ID card is evidence that Oswald's rifle was the C2766 rifle. The back-yard photos are consistent with Oswald holding a gun that is identical to C2766 in every respect.  Add to that the behaviour of Oswald subsequent to the assassination and you can conclude, quite reasonably, that Oswald was involved in the assassination. Oh, right, you don't believe that evidence so it is not evidence - just assumptions.

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Evidence of what?  3 fibers that couldn't be tied to any specific blanket?

Evidence of what.  That Oswald was holding a rifle that may or may not have been C2766 in a photo taken in March or April?
What evidence is there that he owned or possessed another rifle? Marina said it was the same rifle that he used to shoot at Gen. Walker.

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Evidence of what?  That unscientific handwriting analysis of 2 block letters on a photo of a microfilm copy of a 2-inch order coupon was claimed to have been written by Oswald?

Evidence of what?  That an ID card that nobody ever mentioned in any report or interview prior to Oswald's death suddenly turned up in the evidence stream?

No, you are confusing the two concepts as everything you're claiming to be evidence doesn't actually support your claim that "his gun was taken to the TSBD from the Paine's garage".  You're accepting that as true without proof.
Oh, right, you don't believe that evidence so it is not evidence - just assumptions.  You believe the evidence to be false. You believe the police and FBI were all in on an enormous conspiracy.  I don't. Let's leave it at that.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 02:02:59 PM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #88 on: March 29, 2018, 01:56:37 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #89 on: March 29, 2018, 02:10:20 PM »
Hilarious!

That's all I got.

That ain't much, Sherlock!

I'm not at all surprised that you would give honesty such short shrift.

One can only observe the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald made an unannounced, first-time-ever-surprise appearance at the Paine home. On the eve of the assassination. And that attached to that home was a garage. And that inside that garage was a blanket belonging to the Oswalds. And that inside that blanket were some Oswald belongings that afforded Dirty Harvey an opportunity to rifle through... for whatever reason.

On the eve of the assassination.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 02:41:11 PM by Bill Chapman »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #90 on: March 29, 2018, 06:17:40 PM »

You still do not grasp the one and only point I was making in my response to John Iacoletti. That the sole gist of my response to his post is not obvious to you indicates that your excessive alcohol consumption has caught up to you and the havoc that you've inflicted on your brain cells has your IQ now hovering at a level just above that of an idiot.

I accept the documents that John Iacoletti presented as being authentic and the content within them as being recorded accurately.

What happened to Tim? You know, the guy who prefered to argue and debate and leave insults to others...

In recent days I have seen your normally relatively good nature turn really ugly towards those who disagree with you. Why is that? Is this the new Tim, or just the real Tim coming through because he has no persuasive arguments left and is left frustrated because people don't see things the way he does?

In any event, hurling insults at other people doesn't really make you smatter or superior, Tim.

"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong". - Jean-Jacques Rousseau
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 12:52:30 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #90 on: March 29, 2018, 06:17:40 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #91 on: March 29, 2018, 06:24:31 PM »

I'm not at all surprised that you would give honesty such short shrift.

One can only observe the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald made an unannounced, first-time-ever-surprise appearance at the Paine home. On the eve of the assassination. And that attached to that home was a garage. And that inside that garage was a blanket belonging to the Oswalds. And that inside that blanket were some Oswald belongings that afforded Dirty Harvey an opportunity to rifle through... for whatever reason.

On the eve of the assassination.

Hey, don't forget the ring he left behind......  :)

Too bad you still don't know for sure and nor can you provide any kind of proof that Oswald was even in the garage that evening or night.



Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #92 on: March 29, 2018, 06:40:59 PM »
If he actually had curtain rods, why would he not take them home?

I have no idea.  I'm merely objecting to your assertion that Oswald didn't carry any package out of the TSBD when you don't actually know that to be true.

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Oswald denied he had curtain rods. Why would he say that if he actually had curtain rods?

I don't know.  I don't even know that he ever said this.  But let's say that he actually told Frazier that he had curtain rods and actually told Fritz that he never told Frazier that.  How do you get from that to he had a C2766 rifle in a bag?

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If Buell Frazier and Linnie Mae Randall did not collude to fabricate their evidence, then Oswald lied about the curtain rods.  So you are essentially saying that BF/LMR lied.

No not really.  It could be Fritz who was lying/mistaken/confused in his recollection several days later about what Oswald said during interrogation.  Besides, Linnie Mae wouldn't have had any independent knowledge that Oswald ever said anything to Frazier about curtain rods.

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So I guess they were in on the conspiracy to assassinate JFK.

That's another giant leap.  Oswald may or may not have been carrying curtain rods.  He may or may not have lied to Frazier about what was in the package.  Where's the evidence of murder?

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That does not explain Oswald's behaviour in leaving the TSBD

Lots of people left the TSBD.

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getting his gun,

You don't know that either.

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killing Officer Tippit,

Or that.

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and pulling his gun in the Texas Theater

That's just plain false -- even by McDonald's account.

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and saying "It's all over now".

Nobody but McDonald ever claimed to have heard him say that.

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Oh, right, you don't believe that evidence so it is not evidence - just assumptions.

They are all assumptions.  And none of those assumptions get you to who killed JFK anyway.

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By itself, it is not conclusive. But there is evidence that Oswald owned only one rifle and no evidence that he owned more than one rifle.

That's not true.  There's evidence that Oswald owned a rifle in the Soviet Union (Marina's affidavit as translated by Mamantov).  What evidence leads you to believe that he owned only one rifle in the US?  Just because Marina didn't see or mention more than one?  She didn't know a rifle from a shotgun.

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So if she saw a rifle stock, that is evidence that tends to show that Oswald's rifle was there.

IF she saw a rifle stock.  She just assumed that it was a rifle stock that she saw.

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  The paper trail linking C2766 to Oswald via his mail box

Where is the evidence that such a package was ever sent through the US mail and delivered to that PO box?  Where's the evidence that Lee Oswald picked up such a package from that PO box?

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and his use of the A.J. Hidell ID card is evidence that Oswald's rifle was the C2766 rifle.

Where is the evidence that he ever used this ID card?

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The back-yard photos are consistent with Oswald holding a gun that is identical to C2766 in every respect.

How did you determine that they are identical in every respect?

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  Add to that the behaviour of Oswald subsequent to the assassination and you can conclude, quite reasonably, that Oswald was involved in the assassination. Oh, right, you don't believe that evidence so it is not evidence - just assumptions.

I believe that this evidence exists, I just don't think the conclusions you are making about the evidence is sound.  And for good reason.

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What evidence is there that he owned or possessed another rifle? Marina said it was the same rifle that he used to shoot at Gen. Walker.

She did?  When?  How did she determine that?

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Oh, right, you don't believe that evidence so it is not evidence - just assumptions.  You believe the evidence to be false. You believe the police and FBI were all in on an enormous conspiracy.  I don't. Let's leave it at that.

When did I ever say that the police and FBI were all in on an enormous conspiracy?

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #92 on: March 29, 2018, 06:40:59 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #93 on: March 29, 2018, 06:41:46 PM »
I'm not at all surprised that you would give honesty such short shrift.

One can only observe the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald made an unannounced, first-time-ever-surprise appearance at the Paine home. On the eve of the assassination. And that attached to that home was a garage. And that inside that garage was a blanket belonging to the Oswalds. And that inside that blanket were some Oswald belongings that afforded Dirty Harvey an opportunity to rifle through... for whatever reason.

On the eve of the assassination.

If that's really all you got, then case dismissed!

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #94 on: March 29, 2018, 11:00:18 PM »
I have no idea.  I'm merely objecting to your assertion that Oswald didn't carry any package out of the TSBD when you don't actually know that to be true.
I don't have to "know" it to be true by itself.  I know it to be true because Oswald not carrying a package out of the TSBD fits with all the rest of the evidence and Oswald carrying a package out fits with none of the evidence (no one noticed him carrying anything and no package was found, no curtain rods were found but a package similar to the one he carried into the TSBD was found and the gun that is linked to Oswald was found in the TSBD).

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I don't know.  I don't even know that he ever said this.  But let's say that he actually told Frazier that he had curtain rods and actually told Fritz that he never told Frazier that.  How do you get from that to he had a C2766 rifle in a bag?
By looking at the rest of the evidence and trying to fit that evidence to a scenario in which Oswald was not involved and concluding, as Marina and Robert Oswald did, that no such reasonable scenario can be found.

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Lots of people left the TSBD.
No employee left the TSBD after the assassination except Oswald.

A friendly suggestion: Watch a few episodes of Forensic Files and tell us whether you agree with their conclusions.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 11:02:16 PM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #94 on: March 29, 2018, 11:00:18 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Magic Bullet
« Reply #95 on: March 29, 2018, 11:22:04 PM »
I don't have to "know" it to be true by itself.  I know it to be true because Oswald not carrying a package out of the TSBD fits with all the rest of the evidence and Oswald carrying a package out fits with none of the evidence (no one noticed him carrying anything and no package was found, no curtain rods were found but a package similar to the one he carried into the TSBD was found and the gun that is linked to Oswald was found in the TSBD).

So, in other words, you're guessing that Oswald didn't carry a package out of the TSBD.

And really?  If something is not found then it never existed?  Is that your position?  Was Harold Norman's lunch bag ever found?  How about Oswald's black shirt?

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A friendly suggestion: Watch a few episodes of Forensic Files and tell us whether you agree with their conclusions.

I've seen a lot of Forensic Files and they only give you one side of the story.  Not unlike the Warren Commission.

But this isn't a forensic case.  It would be interesting though to check the evidence that hasn't yet gone "missing" for DNA.