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Author Topic: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326  (Read 164 times)

Offline Rob Caprio

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Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« on: August 13, 2018, 09:29:06 PM »
📥 "Whether you agree with him or not, researchers such as Rob Caprio for example, took the sensible initiative and saved his own research, and he is now reposting them back on the Forum.
All other members are free to do the same.” –Duncan MacRae

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Disclaimer: I will no longer respond to any posts that are off topic and/or meant to derail the issue of the opening post. This should not be taken as me running, but instead seen as me keeping the topic on track.

I have no issue with any WC defender, therefore, I am happy to discuss the case in a manner that uses the actual evidence with them. IF the WC was correct in their final conclusion as they claim then this should be no problem for them.

I will not participate in any personal discussions with them as these are meant to distract and discredit instead of focusing on the JFK assassination. I come here to discuss and learn about the JFK assassination and nothing more.

No more games with the LNers. The LNers have to to discuss the WC's, HSCA's and ARRB's evidence or move along.

One would think IF the assassination occurred as the WC said then the LNers would welcome the opportunity to discuss and refute the posts in this series, but they seem more determined to have the posts stopped. I think that this shows that the WC's version of events is not correct.

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The Warren Commission (WC ) said Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) shot and killed President John F. Kennedy (JFK) and Governor John B. Connally (JBC).

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4. The shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor Connally were fired by Lee Harvey Oswald. (WC Report (WCR), p. 19)

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And that he acted alone in doing this shooting.

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(b) The Commission has found no evidence that Oswald was involved with any person or group in a CONSPIRACY to assassinate the President…(WCR, p. 21) (Emphasis added)

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And yet, the WC had tantalizing evidence showing LHO was involved with someone else in their own twenty-six volumes. Why did they ignore it and not pursue it? Who was this person? His name was Alek J. Hidell.

The WC claimed Alek J. Hidell was a figment of LHO’s own mind and that he used this alias, but is that true?


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Hidell was a completely fictitious person created by Oswald, the organization’s [FPCC] only member. (WCR, p. 14)

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We have seen evidence in this series already that shows LHO spoke of Hidell in a way that showed it was another person and NOT him.

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At the close of the interview [with Martello], Oswald requested to speak to a representative of the FBI. Martello called over, telling the FBI that Oswald “was desirous of seeing an agent and supplying to him information with regard to his activities with the FPCC in New Orleans.” [FBI item #100-16601-18; declassified 1977] FBI Special Agent John Quigley then spent an hour and a half talking with Oswald on a sweltering Saturday morning at the police station.

Oswald told the FBI man that “A.J. Hidell” had ASKED HIM to distribute FPCC literature two days before the street incident.* Quigley later maintained that he had never heard of Oswald before. Yet in 1961, after Oswald’s “defection” to the USSR, his Navy file had been reviewed by the FBI in New Orleans, where he was born. JOHN QUIGLEY HAD HANDLED THE CASE.  (Dick Russell, The Man Who Knew Too Much, p. 252) (Emphasis mine)

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LHO would tell FBI Agent John Quigley that Hidell CONTACTED him by letter or telephone and gave him assignments. Why was this NOT pursued by the WC months later when they were conducting an investigation into the murder of JFK?

The WC would hang their whole theory of LHO being Hidell on one piece of evidence—a Selective Service Card (SSC) with that name and LHO’s photograph on it. Here is how the WC said this came into the possession of the Dallas Police Department (DPD) on November 22, 1963.

Commission Exhibit (CE) 795:
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The arresting officers found a forged selective service card with a picture of Oswald and the name "Alek J. Hidell" in Oswald's billfold. On November 22 and 23, Oswald refused to tell Fritz why this card was in his possession or to answer any questions concerning the card. On Sunday morning, November 24, Oswald denied that he knew A.J. Hidell. Captain Fritz produced the selective service card bearing the name "Alek J. Hidell." Oswald became angry and said, "No, I've told you all I'm going to tell you about that card in my billfold—you have the card yourself and you know as much about it as I do." (WCR, p. 181)

]http://www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0103a.htm

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The first part of this long claim is open to conjecture since the WC did NOT put forth evidence showing any SSC with the name Hidell was on him when he was arrested. The main claim came from Detective Paul Bentley as he is mentioned in a series of FBI reports that state that on June 11, 1964, Bentley had identified a photograph of the SSC that was supposedly taken off of LHO on his way to the City Hall on November 22, 1963. For some odd reason though the WC never called Bentley as a witness to support what is claimed in these reports. Why not? No other police officer in the car was called to testify on this alleged discovery as well. We have seen quite a few times before that evidence shows ONLY one alias was known regarding LHO on November 22, 1963, and that was O.H. Lee.

One of the sources of help the WC would get in this area came from the ubiquitous Sergeant Gerald Hill who was also in the car when LHO was driven to the City Hall.

[Note: Hill was at the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD), the J.D. Tippit (JDT) shooting crime scene and the Texas Theater (TT) for the arrest of LHO.]


Mr. BELIN. Was he asked where he lived?

Mr. HILL. …About the time I got through with the radio transmission, I asked Paul Bentley, "Why don't you see if he has any identification."

…I never did have the billfold in my possession, but the name Lee Oswald was called out by Bentley from the back seat, and said this identification, I believe, was on the library card. And he also made the statement that there was some more identification in this other name which I don't remember, but it was the same name that later came in the paper that he bought the gun under.

Mr. BELIN. Would the name Hidell mean anything? Alek Hidell?

Mr. HILL. That would be similar. I couldn't say specifically that is what it was, because this was a conversation and I never did see it written down, but that sounds like the name that I heard.

What a LEADING question by the WC lawyer, huh? That would NOT have been allowed in a court of law. We have seen before the DPD had NO issues in saying the name in the billfold was the name of LHO during a press conference held in the evening of November 22, 1963.

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Q. What was his name on the billfold?

Hill. What was his name on the billfold?

Q. On the billfold.

Hill. Lee H. Oswald. O-S-W-A-L-D. (CE 2160, p. 805)

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Yes, this question and answer session was held with Sgt. Hill and he never mentioned the name of Hidell at all during this exchange. Neither did he mention the SSC he would later claim was found in LHO’s wallet by Bentley.

Another thing to consider is the testimony of Detective Richard Sims as he said LHO was wearing an IDENTIFICATION bracelet at the time of his arrest.


Mr. BALL. Did you see any identification bracelet on Oswald?

Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; he had an identification bracelet.

Mr. BALL. Did he have that on at the time of the showup?

Mr. SIMS. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever remove that?

Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; when they were getting his paraffin cast on his hands.

Mr. BALL. Did you examine that identification bracelet?

Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. What did it have on it, if you remember?

Mr. SIMS. It had his name on it.

So we see he was wearing an identification bracelet with his name (LHO) on it and we are supposed to believe they thought he was A. J. Hidell? Further failure to mention the SSC came from Bentley when he wrote a report to Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry on December 3, 1963.

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On the way to the city hall I removed the suspect's wallet and obtained his name. He made several remarks en route to the city hall about police brutality and denied shooting anybody. . . . I turned his identification over to Lieutenant Baker. I then went to Captain Westbrook's office to make a report of this arrest. (CE 2003, p. 78)

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Why would both Bentley and Hill NOT mention this identification showing Hidell in press conferences and reports to the Police Chief IF they did find it as later claimed? Furthermore, if you check the reports of the others in the car you will see none of them mentioned this supposed discovery of identification that mentions Hidell either.

[See CE 2003—Officer K.E. Lyon, pp. 81-82; Detective Bob Carroll, p. 91; Officer Charles Walker, pp. 100-101]

Other sources of help for the WC’s claim came from Detectives Richard Stovall and Guy Rose as they said this in their WC testimonies on this issue.


Mr. BALL. Do you remember what was said to him and what he said to you?

Mr. STOVALL. I don't recall exactly--I went in and asked him for his identification, asked him who he was and he said his name was Lee Oswald, as well as I remember. Rose and I were both in there at the time. He had his billfold and in it he had the identification of "A. Hidell," which was on a selective service card, as well as I remember.

Mr. BALL. That's [spelling] H-i-d-e-l-l, isn't it?.

Mr. STOVALL. I'm not positive on that--I believe it was [spelling] H-i-d-e-l-l, I'm not sure. And he also had identification of Lee Harvey Oswald, and I believe that was on a Social Security card and at that time

And:

Mr. BALL. Where did you go then?

Mr. ROSE. …they brought in Lee Oswald and I talked to him for a few minutes?

Mr. BALL. What did you say to him or did he say to you?

Mr. ROSE. Well, the first thing I asked him was what his name was and he told me it was Hidell.

Mr. BALL. Did he tell you it was Hidell?

Mr. ROSE. Yes; he did.

Mr. BALL. He didn't tell you it was Oswald?

Mr. ROSE. No; he didn't, not right then--he did later. In a minute--I found two cards--I found a card that said "A. Hidell." And I found another card that said "Lee Oswald" on it, and I asked him which of the two was his correct name. He wouldn't tell me at the time, he just said, "You find out."

Mr. BALL. Now, when he first came in there--you said that he said his name was "Hidell"?

Mr. ROSE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Was that before you saw the two cards?

Mr. ROSE. Yes; it was.

Mr. BALL. Did he give you his first name?

Mr. ROSE. He just said "Hidell"; I remember he just gave me the last name of "Hidell".

Mr. BALL. And then you found two or three cards on him?

Mr. ROSE. Yes; we did.

Mr. BALL. Did you search him?

Mr. ROSE. He had already been searched and someone had his billfold. I don't know whether it was the patrolman who brought him in that had it or not.

Mr. BALL. And the contents of the billfold supposedly were before you?

Mr. ROSE. Yes.

Both of these accounts are very different, and yet, the WC had no qualms about it. Also, if the billfold was taken off of LHO on the way to the City Hall as claimed by other officers and given to Lt. Baker, how did he have it in the interrogation room as Stovall and Rose said? One of those officers would say this during his testimony.

Mr. BELIN. After you got down there, what did you do with him?

Mr. WALKER. We took him up the homicide and robbery bureau, and we went back there, and one of the detectives said put him In this room…And I went inside, and Oswald sat down, and he was handcuffed with his hands behind him. I sat down there…and he had a card in there with a picture of him and the name A. J. Hidell on it.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what kind of card it was?

Mr. WALKER. Just an identification card. I don't recall what it was.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. WALKER. And I told him, "That is your real name, isn't it?"

Mr. BELIN. He - had he earlier told you his name was Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. WALKER. I believe he had.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. WALKER. And he said, "No, that is not my real name."

This shows LHO said his name was NOT A.J. Hidell and that should have seemed clear since his IDENTIFICATION BRACELET said “Lee Harvey Oswald” on it. Another Dectective involved in all of this is Walter Potts who said Captain Will Fritz had told Bill Senkel, and F. M. Turner to go out to 1026 N. Beckley and find out about Oswald/Hidell. Potts went with them.

Mr. POTTS. …my partner, Bill Senkel, and F. M. Turner--we work a three-man squad, and Bill came around and he talked to Captain Fritz, and he said "Come on, let's go. We are going out to 1026 North Beckley."

…he said, "Captain Fritz wants you and I to go out to Oswald's or Hidell's or Oswald's room."

On his person--he must have had--he did have identification with the name Alex Hidell and Oswald---Lee Harvey Oswald…

But if you go to Earlene Roberts’ testimony you won’t see any mention of Hidell at all as she said LHO had registered as O.H. Lee.

Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, he was registered as O. H. Lee and I come to find out he was Oswald and I wish I had never known it.

The same can be said for the owners of the house that LHO rented his room from.

Mr. BALL. Now, is this in his handwriting?

Mrs. JOHNSON. This "O. H. Lee" is in his handwriting and this other is in the housekeeper's handwriting--Mrs. Roberts.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever know his true name was Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mrs. JOHNSON. No; not until we saw his picture flash on the television as the officers were out.

Mr. BALL. You knew him as O. H. Lee?

Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; I knew him as O. H. Lee.

Gladys Johnson Exhibit A: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You’ll notice in this handwritten document it shows he paid as “O.H. Lee”, but as like the rooming house issue at Bledsoe’s house we have little to work with to show that he actually stayed at the N. Beckley rooming house as the WC claimed. Why did neither person have actual docmentation that showed LHO stayed at their rooming house?

Also, you’ll notice that nowhere in her testimony do you see the name “Hidell” so we have to assume the police never mentioned this name to her. Her husband would say the same thing in his testimony.


Mr. BELIN. Could you describe how you came to find out that this man had another name other than O. H. Lee?

Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it was when the officers came looking for him.

Mr. BELIN. And can you state what happened?

Mr. JOHNSON. Well, they just came down there looking for--uh--Oswald.

Mr. BELIN. Did they say what his full name was?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, I believe they did.

Mr. BELIN. Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. JOHNSON. I believe they did.

Mr. JOHNSON. They asked if uh--we had anyone by that name living there.

Mr. BELIN. By the name of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. And what did you tell them?

Mr. JOHNSON. We told them, "No."

He too never mentions the officers mentioning the name of “Hidell” and this means Potts’ allegation is NOT supported or corroborated at all. Perhaps the man who applies the death knell to this issue is Justice of the Peace David Johnston. I have quoted this before, but it is important. After spending over 12 hours at City Hall immersing himself in this case and learning of the evidence against LHO (remember he presided over one arraignment and a second alleged arraignment against LHO) he wrote the following regarding a LHO alias.

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All properties found from the room of O.H. Lee (Lee Harvey Oswald) were taken to Homicide Bureau, Dallas Police Dept. (Johnston Exhibit 1, p. 314)

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The same information is seen in reporter Seth Kantor’s handwritten notes as he circled the name “O.H. Lee”.

Kantor Exhibit 3, p. 360:
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The first mention of “Hidell” does NOT show up until fifteen pages later on Saturday afternoon when the FBI was linking this name to LHO for the rifle order.

Kantor Exhibit 3, p. 375:
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There simply is NO mention of the name Hidell in regards to LHO in any evidence prior to November 24, 1963, and only then we see it mentioned when the rifle was allegedly claimed to have been ordered by LHO under this alias. Mark Lane said this back in 1964 when he testified before the WC.

Mr. LANE. I think it is most interesting to note that when Oswald was arrested we were informed immediately that he had an alias--his last name was Lee in that alias…But the alias was raised immediately. The following day, on the 23d, when it was announced by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, that Oswald had purchased an Italian carbine, 6.5 millimeters, under the assumed name, A. Hidell, then for the first time the district attorney of Dallas indicated that the rifle in his possession, the alleged murder weapon, had changed both nationality and size, and had become from a German 7.65 Mauser, an Italian 6.5 carbine. And, further he indicated then for the first time that they knew of another alias maintained by Lee Oswald. In addition to the name Lee, which they discovered, they said, by going to the home where he lived--the house where he had lived in Dallas, where he rented a room, a rooming house, they discovered there he had secured the room under the name Lee. Mr. Wade stated that on Oswald's person, in his pocketbook, was an identification card made out to A. Hidell, and I have seen pictures of this reproduced in either Time magazine or Newsweek, or one of the weekly news magazines--I believe it was one or the other--with a picture of Oswald appearing on this card, plainly indicating that Oswald had the alias A. Hidell to Mr. Wade.

I think it is interesting that the name Lee as an alias was released immediately, although some investigation was required to secure that alias. But the name A. Hidell, was not released as an alias, although that was present and obvious by mere search of Oswald's person when he was arrested.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you give us the time of the release of the information about the alias, A. Hidell.

Mr. LANE. That was on November 23.

Mr. RANKIN. And how about Lee?

Mr. LANE. November 22. The first release of the name A. Hidell came from the district attorney's office after the FBI had indicated that Oswald had purchased an Italian carbine under that name.

As always, Mr. Lane sums it up so succinctly for us and that is why WC defenders can’t stand him. We are asked to believe the DPD, FBI and Secret Service (SS) had time to investigate and find out about O.H. Lee, but that they could NOT tell anyone about a name on a card supposedly found on LHO? Does this make any sense?

Captain Fritz would testify to something he had NO evidence to support.


Mr. BALL. Another thing, that day, at sometime during the 22d when you questioned Oswald, didn't you ask him about this card he had in his pocket with the name Alek Hidell?

Mr. FRITZ. I did; yes, sir.

So in his testimony he said he discussed this card with Hidell on it on Friday, November 22, 1963, but in his report he wrote that this discussion came up on Saturday, November 23, 1963.

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During the SECOND day interviews I asked Oswald about a card that he had in his purse showing that he belonged to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, which he admitted. I asked him about another identification card in his pocket bearing the name of Alex Hidell. (WCR, p. 602) (Emphasis added)

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So which is correct? Did this discussion occur on the 22nd or the 23rd? If we look at others who were at the Friday interrogation we can try and find the answer to this question. FBI Agent James Hosty and FBI Agent James Bookhout both wrote reports on the interrogation of Friday, November 22, 1963, and neither mention the name “Hidell” at all.

See joint report in WCR, pp. 612-613:
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And, report by James Bookhout—WCR, pp. 619-620:

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We do not see the mention of the name Hidell until page 623 of Bookhout’s report and that deals with Saturday, November 23, 1963, and NOT the day of the assassination. We have more eyewitnesses to Friday’s interrogation to help us. Both SS Agent Forrest Sorrels and SS Agent Winston Lawson were present and neither said anything about the card or the name Hidell being discussed on the day of the assassination. In fact, if you search Lawson’s testimony you won’t even see the name Hidell appear. As for Sorrels, he does discuss it, but is clearly in reference to the Saturday’s interrogation.

Mr. STERN - What else occurred at the interview on Saturday that you can remember?

Mr. SORRELS - He was questioned abut the rifle, because, at that time, as I recall it, it had been determined that the rifle had been purchased from Kleins in Chicago, and shipped to a person using the name of A. Hidell. And he was questioned by Captain Fritz along those lines. And he denied that the rifle was his. He denied knowing or using the name of A. Hidell, or Alek Hidell…He said, "I never used the name of Hidell."

It seems Fritz’s testimony regarding discussing this topic with LHO on Friday, November 22, 1963, has NO support for it. Conversely, the alias of “O.H. Lee” is mentioned by Fritz (WCR p. 602) and corroborated by Hosty and Bookhout (WCR, p. 612). Since the card supposedly bearing the name Hidell was found allegedly before the officers went to LHO’s rooming house and found out about O.H. Lee, why would Fritz NOT ask LHO about this alias IF he had really used it and evidence on himself showing this?

As we have seen previously in this series on Saturday DPD Chief Curry admitted that he had NO idea if LHO had ever used the alias Hidell outside the alleged rifle order.


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Q. Chief, was the post-office box rented by Oswald?

Curry. The name—the return—the name on the return address was A. Hidell. A. Hidell.

Q. Are you going to confront him with this evidence now?

Q. How do you spell Hidell?

Curry. H-I-D-E- double L.

Q. Was that the name under which the post-office box was rented?

Curry. I DON’T KNOW THAT.

Question: Had Oswald ever used the alias Hidell before?

Curry: I do not know.  (CE 2145, p. 760) (Emphasis added)

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The only support the WC had was from FBI Agent Manning Clements report of November 22, 1963, in which he mentions the card with “Hidell” on it, but strangely enough the WC never saw fit to use this report as support for their claim. Why not? Well, if we look at what he said  we might understand why.

Mr. STERN. Did you review with him the contents of his wallet and ask him questions on any of it?

Mr. CLEMENTS. I questioned him as to the fictitious, and obviously fictitious selective service card, which I found in his wallet. I recognized it as being fictitious card from the fact that the photograph was mounted on the card, and that there were obvious erasures in typing of information on the card itself. The card was in the name of an Alek James Hidell, but bore the photograph of Oswald.

What did he mean by "I found" the card in his wallet? I thought Detective Bentley found that on the way to City Hall? Clearly Clements knew the SSC was fake because it bore a photograph and as said before they did NOT do so in 1963. It has never been shown what typewriter LHO had access to in order to make all these documents and letters he was claimed to have written. IT would seem more likely to me that this card was made FOR HIM and planted on him, but did this happen on the 22nd or the 23rd?

FBI Agent Manning Clements Report:
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In Alwyn Cole’s (FBI expert on documents) WC testimony he said this about what would be needed to make a card like CE 795.

Mr. EISENBERG. Would you need, Mr. Cole, in your belief, the type of equipment you are likely to find in a printing plant, or could this be done with home equipment?

Mr. COLE. I would say it could be done with home equipment, but I think it is unlikely with respect to the actual preparation of the' negative that one would get a successful result from home equipment. I believe that for the preparation of the negative, that is, apart from the retouching operation, that one would need a very accurate camera such as are found in photographic laboratories and printing plants.

If LHO made this card using photographic equipment like Cole said then the only place he could have done this was at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, but the WC never showed he did do it there. They also never showed why he made it since it was never used or seen prior to the 22nd or 23rd of November. What purpose did it serve? It was NOT on LHO when he was arrested in New Orleans as we have seen the contents listed before by Lieutenant Francis Martello of the New Orleans P.D. Why would LHO NOT carry it to hand out leaflets, but then carry it when he allegedly left to murder JFK? The WC never even suggested that he used it to pick up the alleged rifle and pistol from the Post Office. Here is Martello’s list again of what LHO had on him when arrested in New Orleans.

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1) Social Security card bearing #433-54-3937 in the name of Lee Harvey Oswald;
2) Selective Service draft card in the NAME OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD bearing #41-114-395-32, classification—4A;
3) Card bearing name Lee Harvey Oswald reflecting he was a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee; address listed as 799 Broadway, New York 3, New York, telephone #0Ragon 4-8295, headquarters for Fair Play for Cuba Committee. Card was signed by V.T. Lee, Executive Secretary; card issued 5/28/63.
4) Card for the New Orleans Chapter of Fair Play for Cuba Committee in the name of Lee Harvey Oswald, signed by A.J. Hidell, Chapter President, issued June 6, 1963. (CE 1942, p. 737; Compiled from X, pp. 52-54)

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What is going on here as Clements said he questioned LHO at 10:00 p.m. (without Fritz being present somehow) and LHO still has his wallet with this stuff in it? Stovall, Rose, and Walker ostensibly saw the same items at 2:00 p.m. on LHO. How is this possible when Detective Bentley said he gave the wallet and the contents to Lieutenant Baker when they reached City Hall? Also, we have Detective Sims testimony to consider as well.

Mr. STERN. Now, the search in which you participated of Oswald at 4:05 on Friday, just before the first showup

Mr. STERN. Do you recall that?

Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. Do you remember anything else that was found on Oswald at that time?

Mr. SIMS. No, sir; I don't remember anything else.

Mr. STERN. A wallet or identification card?

Mr. SIMS. No, sir; that had been taken off of him.

We see to seem the same pattern here that we do for the jacket LHO supposedly had on, then did not have on, then had on, then did NOT have on, etc…When they arrived at City Hall Bentley said he gave Lt. Baker the wallet and contents, but later at 2:00 p.m. multiple people say LHO had his wallet on him when they talked with him (albeit none of them mentioned the card with Hidell on it). Then at 4:05 p.m. he has NO wallet again, but at 10:00 p.m. he has the wallet again for Clements to see.

The bottom line is there is NO evidence beyond Marina Oswald’s claim that LHO ever used the alias Hidell. The WC’s own experts would say they could NOT say he signed the Fair Play For Cuba Committee (FPCC) card he had on him when he was arrested in New Orleans and in Dallas. To make up for this they went to their go-to person, Marina Oswald. First they had FBI expert Cole testify to this about the card.


Mr. EISENBERG. Could you tell whether it was the same as the signature "A. J. Hidell"?

Mr. COLE. It conforms generally to the signature "A. J. Hidell," that is, the form shown by the photograph, Exhibit 819.

CE 819: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Mr. EISENBERG. What was your conclusion as to the signature of Lee H. Oswald?

Mr. COLE It is my opinion that the author of the standard writing is the author of the signature "Lee H. Oswald" on Exhibit 819.

Mr. EISENBERG. What was your conclusion as to the signature "A. J. Hidell"?

Mr. COLE I find no basis in the standard writing for identification of the author of such standard writing as the author of the name "A. J. Hidell" as shown by 819.

CE 110: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Mr. EISENBERG. Have you attempted to compare the signature "A. J. Hidell" on Commission Exhibit 819 with the Latin or English printing, or writing rather, in Exhibit 110, to determine whether they were both written by the same person?

Mr. COLE. I have.

Mr. EISENBERG. And what is your conclusion?

Mr. COLE. My conclusion is that the author of the writing in the Latin alphabet on Exhibit 110 is a possible author of the name "A. J. Hidell" on 819, but I do not offer that as a definite conclusion. I say "possible author" because I observed a similarity in the particular parts where close comparison is possible, namely, with respect to the lowercase letter "d," of which one example is found in the word "day" on the left side of the lower one-third of Exhibit 110…There is no opportunity for making a more extensive comparison between the name "A. J. Hidell" on 819 with this standard writing. And on that basis I would say only that the author of the standard could be regarded as a possible author of the questioned signature.

Despite this NON-committed answer the WC backed up this quite wishy-washy claim with Marina Oswald’s own claim of being the one that signed the FPCC card.

Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, I will hand you Commission’s Exhibit No. 819 and ask you particularly about the signature at the bottom.

Mrs. OSWALD. That is Lee’s handwriting, and this is mine.

Mr. RANKIN. Were the words “A.J. Hidell, Chapter President” on Commission’s Exhibit No. 819 are in your handwriting.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Would you tell the Commission how you happened to sign that?

Mrs. OSWALD. Lee wrote this down on a piece of paper and told me to sign it on this card, and said he would beat me if I didn’t sign that name on the card.

Once again, Marina Oswald claimed LHO was a violent man despite admitting to Senator Richard Russell that LHO had only hit her once in all their years together. The WC would use a FBI Report (CE 2726) to support this testimony as this report CONFIRMED THAT MARINA SAID SHE SIGNED THE CARD!

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Since the handwriting of Marina Oswald appearing on FBI Exhibits D24 and D220 was NOT ADEQUATE for a SATISFACTORY handwriting comparison with the signature “A.J. Hidell” appearing on the Fair Play For Cuba Committee card, a PHOTOGRAPH of the card was sent to our Dallas Office. This photograph was exhibited to Marina Oswald on June 3, 1964, and SHE IDENTIFIED the Hidell signature as HER HANDWRITING. She also furnished handwriting specimens of the signature “A.J. Hidell.” These known handwriting specimens of Marian Oswald have been designated D225. As a result of a handwriting comparison of Exhibit D225 with the questioned Hidell signature, it was CONCLUDED that Marina Oswald wrote signature “A.J. Hidell” appearing on the Fair Play For Cuba Committee found in Oswald’s wallet. (CE 2726, p. 105) (Emphasis added)

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It is very reassuring for me to know the FBI said Marina Oswald signed “A.J. Hidell” on the FPCC cards because Marina SAID SHE DID! How about you? Marina would say this was the ONLY time he ever had her do this for him. Why this time? And why did he not get her to write things tied to more serious things like his alleged rifle order? The WC tried to get her to say LHO used the name Hidell on the radio in his debate in New Orleans, but she said no, he used his real name LHO.

Mr. RANKIN. But it was in regard to some interview for radio transmission, and he had identified himself as Hidell, rather than Oswald, is that right?

Mrs. OSWALD. No--he represented himself as Oswald, but he said that the organization which he supposedly represents is headed by Hidell.

Mr. RANKIN. He was using the name Hidell, then, to have a fictitious president or head of the organization which really was he himself, is that right?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

The second question was a LEADING one. One could also assume that LHO was saying he was representing an organization that was headed by a person named Hidell “who gave him assignments via the mail or by telephone” that he was to follow. Based on her comment, why is this so far-fetched? Also, we have seen evidence in other areas of the twenty-six volumes that show LHO referred to Hidell as someone else. He also listed a Hidell as a reference on a job application!

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Sgt. Robert Hidell, Active Duty, U.S.M.C. (CE 1894, p. 696)

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Why could this NOT have been the REAL Hidell and LHO’s handler/boss? Outside of Marina Oswald’s claim and Fritz’s lie under oath, can any WC defender show us that LHO ever used the alias Hidell before the assassination or that he had a SSC card on him with the name typed on it on November 22, 1963?

I think we can go ahead and say the evidence in the twenty-six volumes again sink the conclusion of the WC found in the Report they gave us, thus, they are again sunk.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 10:03:46 PM by Rob Caprio »

JFK Assassination Forum

Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« on: August 13, 2018, 09:29:06 PM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 09:40:52 PM »
Another desperate attempt by Caprio.

When arrested Oswald was carrying Hidell ID.



In Oswald's possessions he had the negatives used to create the false ID.



And Oswald used the name Hidell to buy murdering weapons.







JohnM


Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 11:45:48 PM »
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Another desperate attempt by Caprio.

When arrested Oswald was carrying Hidell ID.



In Oswald's possessions he had the negatives used to create the false ID.



And Oswald used the name Hidell to buy murdering weapons.







JohnM

Another desperate attempt by Mytton. You clearly didn't even bother to read the OP, otherwise, you would have seen that the WC's claims are unsupportable. Why do you defend unsupported claims all the time?

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2018, 11:59:40 PM »
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Another desperate attempt by Mytton. You clearly didn't even bother to read the OP, otherwise, you would have seen that the WC's claims are unsupportable. Why do you defend unsupported claims all the time?

All I see is eyewitness testimony, I thought you said eyewitnesses were unreliable, except when they're not, hey Rob?

JohnM

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 04:17:18 PM »
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All I see is eyewitness testimony, I thought you said eyewitnesses were unreliable, except when they're not, hey Rob?

JohnM

All I see is distractions. My OP lays out perfectly that there is no evidence showing that LHO ever used the alias A. Hidell. None. All you have is Marina Oswald's unsupported claim that he did. Why do you rely on her word when you have said that witnesses are unreliable?

LHO said a number of times that Hidell was someone who contacted him and told him what to do. This was never shown to be false.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 04:17:18 PM »


Online Bill Chapman

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2018, 04:42:27 PM »
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All I see is distractions. My OP lays out perfectly that there is no evidence showing that LHO ever used the alias A. Hidell. None. All you have is Marina Oswald's unsupported claim that he did. Why do you rely on her word when you have said that witnesses are unreliable?

LHO said a number of times that Hidell was someone who contacted him and told him what to do. This was never shown to be false.

Yeah, those voices in his head told him to do a lot of things
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 04:46:21 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2018, 11:43:18 PM »
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Yeah, those voices in his head told him to do a lot of things

Sadly for you he was part of a group - the FPCC. Again, what loner joins a group?

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« Reply #7 on: Today at 12:15:12 AM »
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Yeah, those voices in his head told him to do a lot of things

Says the guy who is always making up dialog in his head for other forum members to say.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« Reply #7 on: Today at 12:15:12 AM »


Online Bill Chapman

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Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« Reply #8 on: Today at 12:51:41 AM »
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Another desperate attempt by Mytton. You clearly didn't even bother to read the OP, otherwise, you would have seen that the WC's claims are unsupportable. Why do you defend unsupported claims all the time?

Hidell rhymes with 'Fidel'
Marina pointed that out and laughed
She laughed a lot at Dirty Harvey's delusions

But admittedly he had the last laugh because, thanks to fanatical screwballs like you, he's still famous.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #326
« Reply #8 on: Today at 12:51:41 AM »