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Author Topic: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer  (Read 121900 times)

Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #640 on: June 17, 2018, 11:53:17 PM »



Yeah I don't think that Brewer was on the balcony but who said the manager was on the balcony?



JohnM

A pair of DPD officers, Toney and IIRC Cunningham.

Offline Michael Chambers

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #641 on: June 18, 2018, 12:42:13 AM »
Herbert never ever had the actual original Police radio broadcast tape of the sequence.

What was the one he had, that used to come up as a little box on the screen, supposed to be then Tim?

(ie the 2 minute excerpt with the citizen(Bowley?Benavides) calling in on it and a bit before it and a minute or so after it.)

I mean at that time I checked it in other places round the internet and they were all the same time and statements. :)


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #642 on: June 18, 2018, 12:46:39 AM »
A pair of DPD officers, Toney and IIRC Cunningham.





Yeah I read Capasse's post but I think their statements are being misinterpreted and I get the impression that while the Theater was being stormed the cops on the balcony who were desperately needed downstairs were simply having information relayed to them from the Police who confronted Brewer(suit wearing Manager) at the rear exit and Brewer must have been the manager who said Oswald was on the ground floor.



JohnM

Offline Michael Chambers

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #643 on: June 18, 2018, 01:08:45 AM »
What was the one he had, that used to come up as a little box on the screen, supposed to be then Tim?

(ie the 2 minute excerpt with the citizen(Bowley?Benavides) calling in on it and a bit before it and a minute or so after it.)

I mean at that time I checked it in other places round the internet and they were all the same time and statements. :)
EDIT by reply quoting -

ALSO Tim I found this from Herberts posting on another forum.
Herbert Blenner
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"See the following link for the audio segment used in this article.
 
http://hdblenner.com/temps/tippit.wav
 
The transcripts of radio traffic on Channel-I and an audio file reportedly originating from the dictabelt show that the authorities altered the sequence of recorded events surrounding the murder of Officer Tippit."
 
Part One - Activity on the Primary Police Channel-I
 
When police initially arrived at the scene of the Tippit shooting, the dictabelt had recorded six addresses for the location of the crime scene. This situation is particularly difficult to dismiss since a citizen reported the shooting to the police over the two-way radio of Tippit?s patrol car.

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #644 on: June 18, 2018, 01:32:20 AM »
 I am I wrong in seeing the seemingly lack of a response to the citizen phone in on Tppits radio? I believe Last time it came up there was silence

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #645 on: June 18, 2018, 01:32:37 AM »
What Matt wrote was:

"There is a hint of the second Oswald?s arrest in the Dallas police records.

According to the Dallas Police Department?s official Homicide Report on J.D. Tippit, ?Suspect was later arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater at 231 W. Jefferson.? 457

Dallas Police detective L.D. Springfellow also reported to Captain W. P. Gannaway, ?Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater.? 458

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2012/02/"

And the link is to a Bill Kelly post that quotes Douglas' claim --well, insinuation, really--  that a second person was arrested on the balcony, and taken out the back door.

That's where I jumped into the sub-thread and posted the Dallas city archives index of the reports of the officers who were at the Texas Theatre. All of those accounts say that only one person, Oswald, was arrested, and that he was arrested on the main floor, not the balcony. I pointed out that the it doesn't appear that the Homicide report nor the Stringfellow report were written by anyone who was at the theater during the arrest. That being so, I wouldn't put much stock in that particular claim in either.

You are right that some of the officers proceeded to the balcony first. The DPD channel 1 logs show that when the dispatcher advise. "We have information that a suspect just went in the Texas Theater on West Jefferson. Supposed to be hiding in the balcony," so that stands to reason they would go there first. Buhk never went into the theater; he stayed outside to man the radio in the squad car. His knowledge of what was going on in the Texas Theatre consisted solely of that one radio report. Carroll went to the balcony, and saw the commotion on the lower floor when Oswald was arrested, but his report didn't mention anyone being questioned on the balcony.  So, neither Buhk nor Carrol said that anyone was arrested on the balcony nor did they say anyone was questioned up there.

Of the others, Walther, Toney, Cunningham, and Hill, Walther saw someone being questioned, but wasn't involved in it himself. From context, it's apparent that Cunningham and Toney questioned some guy to determine if he could be the suspect, but were redirected by someone who is identified as either the "manager" or the "manager on duty"

For context, Taylor went to the balcony, but doesn't mention seeing anything going on up there. Same with Lyon. A number of other officers, all of whom entered from the rear of the theater went directly to the first floor. They were met by Jonnny Calvin Brewer, who pointed out Oswald then and there.

Since Julia Postal called the cops, she has to be the source for locating  the suspect in the balcony. However, she didn't see him enter the theater, didn't see where he went once inside, nor did she go into the auditorium to determine his whereabouts. That job was assigned to Butch Burroughs, though Burroughs wasn't actually told to find a specific person. In fact, Postal and Brewer actually withheld the underlying reason for the assignment from Burroughs. However they figured he was in the balcony is bound to be indirect, convoluted, and not particularly compelling.

In short, there never was an arrest on the balcony. Nor was there a suspect, though there was one guy who seems to have been sitting in the wrong place at the wrong time, and was briefly the interest of a couple of police officers without actually getting to the point of being a suspect. I guess you could call him a "person of interest," as they tend to like to do nowadays.

The upshot of all of this is that there is no real evidence from the police reports that a second person was arrested at the TT and take outside the back door, as Douglas would have you believe.

One minute, conspiracy theorists believe evidence is falsified to hide the true facts.

The next minute, conspiracy theorists ignore the obvious, that if a suspect really was arrested in the balcony, any documentation supporting that idea would have disappeared (or been falsified) long ago.

I wish they would make up their minds.  Were these conspirators geniuses or fools?

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #646 on: June 18, 2018, 01:35:25 AM »
The Davis shells do. But even if they didn't it wouldn't matter since their having been made readily identifiable by Dhority and Doughty did away with the need for a chain of custody.

Evidently not when Poe and Barnes testified.

You want to try again?

How about YOU try again?

What do Poe and Barnes have to do with the two Davis shells, Doughty and Dhority?

I can't wait to hear this one.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #647 on: June 18, 2018, 01:48:00 AM »
Martin, I pointed out that evidence is not admitted into court without first being authenticated. You said No. You were wrong. "Real evidence must be relevant, material, and authentic before a judge will permit its use in a trial."

Having OJ try the gloves on was not the Defense challenging the chain of custody. It was the prosecution being stupid. It was Christopher Darden, not the Defense , who had OJ try putting the gloves on.

Martin, I pointed out that evidence is not admitted into court without first being authenticated.

Nope, that?s what you turned it into later. You began by basically claiming that the admittance of a piece of evidence somehow automatically certifies it?s probative value to such an extend that the defense could do nothing more about it. And that is simply not true.

Having OJ try the gloves on was not the Defense challenging the chain of custody.

I never said anything about OJ trying on the gloves. And the defense did in fact challenge the chain of custody when they questioned the credibility of Mark Furman who claimed to have found one of the gloves behind OJ?s house.

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #648 on: June 18, 2018, 01:57:09 AM »
When police initially arrived at the scene of the Tippit shooting, the dictabelt had recorded six addresses for the location of the crime scene. This situation is particularly difficult to dismiss since a citizen reported the shooting to the police over the two-way radio of Tippit?s patrol car.

Anyone familiar with the evidence in the case (the addresses relevant to the witnesses) would understand perfectly why there were different addresses.

For example, L.J. Lewis, Pat Patterson, Harold Russell and Warren Reynolds were at the Reynolds Motor Company when they heard the shots.  They looked up Patton towards the sound of the shots and saw a man running down Patton (towards them) with a gun in his hands.  Harold Russell went up to Tenth Street.  Warren Reynolds and Pat Patterson followed the killer.  However, Lewis went inside the offices of the car lot and called the police.  The address of the car lot, where Lewis was calling from, was 510 E. Jefferson Boulevard.

510 E. Jefferson Blvd. was one of the addresses mentioned in the police tapes.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 01:59:15 AM by Bill Brown »

Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #649 on: June 18, 2018, 01:59:46 AM »
Scattered?

Hill also later said he put his mark in them...

What happened to those marks?

Offhand, I don't remember the exact term he used, but he did say that he figured it was an auto from the way that the cases were distributed. Or, "scattered" as I said it. Like I said, I think that the ".32 dark finish automatic" description of the murderous firearm exerted an influence of it's own, and likely more than anything  to do with the location of the cases.

As for the marks, I don't know. I wearied of CT chain-of-custody arguments years ago, when I realized that the goalposts would never stop being moved on me. Just like you are now trying to do by changing the subject from "why did Hill radio 'automatic .38'" to "what is the chain of evidence for the .38 cases?"

It looks like someone else has taken up that thankless task anyway, so I'll leave it to them. The subject seems to be in good hands.


 

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