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Author Topic: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer  (Read 128957 times)

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #490 on: June 13, 2018, 11:35:15 PM »

The transcript goes like this:

550/2 (Sergeant Gerald L. Hill):   A witness reports that he last was seen in the Abundant Life Temple about the 400 block. We are fixing to go in and shake it down.

Dispatcher:   Is that the one that was involved in the shooting of the officer?

550/2:  Yes.

Dispatcher: They already have him.

550/2: No, that wasn't the right one.
'
McAdams' site interleaves the traffic on the two channels, and that sometimes splits up conversations to where it's not apparent when conversations start or end. I was looking for an audio copy of the channel2 recording, but can't find it. I think the 1:44 in parentheses is an editorial addition, and may not be reliable. Ch 2 wasn't running continuously, so we don't know exactly the time of each transmission in the conversation between Hill and Dispatch. All we know is that it all happened between the dispatcher time stamps at 1:40 and 1:50 PM.

What I want to know is where Charles Batchelor came up with this one, just before 1:40: "Mrs. Connally is being flown in here from Austin. She will arrive at Love Field. A State car will be standing by but it will probably be an hour before she gets here. Notify the Command Post at Parkland to get her through when she arrives." He didn't know she was already in Dallas?

 Nope that is earlier What I have referred to is at 1.40

Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #491 on: June 14, 2018, 12:26:41 AM »
Nope that is earlier What I have referred to is at 1.40

Let me do this again.

The transcript goes like this:

Dispatcher:  1:40 p.m.

550/2 (Sergeant Gerald L. Hill):   A witness reports that he last was seen in the Abundant Life Temple about the 400 block. We are fixing to go in and shake it down.

Dispatcher:   Is that the one that was involved in the shooting of the officer?

550/2:  Yes.

Dispatcher: They already have him.

550/2: No, that wasn't the right one.

I don't see a a similar conversation in Channel 1 or channel 2 that could be mistaken for this one.

Since channel 2 isn't continuous, we don't know how long it is between the 1:40 timestamp and the beginning of the Hill/Dispatcher conversation.
'
(http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes3.htm)

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #492 on: June 14, 2018, 12:29:01 AM »
OK Tim you tell me what you believe the amount of leeway the term "approximately" merits in a context such as this If such large latitudes are to be accepted then closer questioning should be required Do you have a time of arrest at the theater? Doesn't the McAdams transcript show the Dispatcher says at 1.40 'They already have hi' in reference to the Tippit suspect?

At that time, the dispatcher on channel 2 believed they had the suspect holed up in the library.  When Hill (1:44) reports that it was not the right man, he is referring to the suspect at the library NOT being the man who killed Tippit.  The man ended up being identified as library employee Adrian Hamby (who was seen running into the library by Dallas Police Officer C.T. Walker).
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 12:38:09 AM by Bill Brown »

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #493 on: June 14, 2018, 12:41:08 AM »
Am I uto understand there is nothing on the police audio transcripts about a suspect at the theater until officers have already arrived?

  It seems odd McDonald is not asked why he went to the Texas theater? Nor does Ball ask him for an estimate of the time he went there


Mr. McDONALD - After I was satisfied that this teenager that had run into the library didn't fit the description, I went back to my squad car, put my shotgun back in the rack. Just as I got into the squad car, it was reported that a suspect was seen running into the Texas Theatre, 231 West Jefferson.
So I reported to that location Code 3. This is approximately seven blocks from the library, seven blocks west.
Mr. BALL - Did you go down there with your partner?
Mr. McDONALD - No, sir; I had let my partner out on arrival; my first arrival in the 400 block.
Mr. BALL - He was on foot?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir; I didn't see him any more that day.
Mr. BALL - You went down to the Texas Theatre?




 Again with Hill The time he entered the theater is not asked

The next place I went was, I walked up the street about half a block to a church. That would have been on the northeast corner of 10th Street in the 400 block, further west of the shooting, and was preparing to go in when there were two women who came out and said they were employees inside and had been there all the time. I asked them had they seen anybody enter the church, because we were still looking for possible places for the suspect to hide. And they said nobody passed them, nobody entered the church, but they invited us to check the rest of the doors and windows and go inside if we wanted to.
An accident investigator named Bob Apple was at the location at that time, and we were standing there together near his car when the call came out that the suspect had been seen entering the Texas Theatre.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?


 Same with Westbrook


Mr. WESTBROOK. It could have been, sir; I don't recall, because I directed someone there to be sure and get her name for the report, but she lived directly across the street, and she told us--or was in the process of telling us how it occurred--what she had seen, when someone hollered a patrolman hollered--"It's just come over the radio that they've got a suspicious person in the Texas Theatre."
Then, Sergeant Stringer, I, and Agent Barrett got in another squad car, and I don't know what officer was driving this one, but then when we arrived and were approaching the theatre, I directed the patrolman to turn down into the alley instead of going around to the front because I figured there would be a lot of cars at the front. There were two or three at the back.
So, I and Barrett---Stringer went to another door, and I and Barrett---we stopped at the first one---we got out and walked to this first entrance that was nearest us, and as we walked into the door we met an employee of the theatre.
Again, I do not know his name, but it was taken, and he pointed--I don't think I said anything to him--I think he told me, he said, "The man you are looking for--" Now, right here, Barrett and I became separated for a short minute or two. I think he was on the other side of the stage, and I'm not for sure, but this boy reported--he pointed to a man that was sitting about the middle the middle row of seats pretty close to the back and he said, "That is the man you are looking for."
And I started toward him and I had taken about two or three steps--down the steps.


 Hawkins

Mr. HAWKINS. Yes, sir; he is a three-wheel officer. We went to the library and this turned out to be an employee of the library who had heard of the news and was apparently running in the library to tell the other employees there.
We then, after this checked out, we then continued circling in the area around 10th and Patton and Marsalis and Jefferson.
We then heard on the police radio that a suspicious person was at the Texas Theatre, and at this time we proceeded to the theatre.
Mr. BALL. Where did you park?
Mr. HAWKINS. I parked my squad car in the alley at the rear of the theatre.
Mr. BALL. Then, what did you do?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.


Quote
Am I uto understand there is nothing on the police audio transcripts about a suspect at the theater until officers have already arrived?

At 1:45, dispatch first mentions a suspect entering the Texas Theater.  What makes you believe any officers arrived at the theater before 1:45?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 12:42:39 AM by Bill Brown »

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #494 on: June 14, 2018, 01:48:33 AM »
At that time, the dispatcher on channel 2 believed they had the suspect holed up in the library.  When Hill (1:44) reports that it was not the right man, he is referring to the suspect at the library NOT being the man who killed Tippit.  The man ended up being identified as library employee Adrian Hamby (who was seen running into the library by Dallas Police Officer C.T. Walker).


  OK. I guess I was presupposing they would be having discussions concerning the theater by 1.44 Any idea where Gerald Hill is at 1:44

Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #495 on: June 14, 2018, 02:11:16 AM »


  OK. I guess I was presupposing they would be having discussions concerning the theater by 1.44 Any idea where Gerald Hill is at 1:44

He radioed in "The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic 38, rather than a pistol" between 1:34 and 1:35, so at that point he's at 10th and Patton.

According to his testimony, he remained at the murder scene until he heard the a call on the radio that "the suspect had been seen entering the Texas Theatre." At that point, he and an officer Apple "went to Jefferson, made a right on Jefferson, headed west from our location, and pulled up as close to the front of the theatre as we could. There were already two or three officers at the location. I asked if it was covered off at the back. " That radio call came in between 1:44 and 1:46. 



Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #496 on: June 14, 2018, 02:26:14 AM »
Interestingly enough, if you do a Google search for Oswald's arrest report you see it in various versions.  Including one with a notation "Assault to murder off # F85954".  It is also dated 11-22-63 and signed by Fritz with an additional charge that is difficult to make out but something like "1 assault to murder."  I wonder if the kooks have been intentionally dishonest again by using an early version of the arrest report that was not final?

https://clickamericana.com/eras/1960s/lee-harvey-oswalds-dallas-police-info-1963

Smith, Wesson... and Lee.
AKA Dirty Harvey.

But I kind of take issue where the report states outright that Oswald shot Kennedy et al. The report should have said he was a suspect in the murders, not that he was the killer.

The joke on these characters trying to minimize John Brewer's importance in the case ('shoe salesman', 'looking funny') is that Oswald could have even arrested for assault alone: A quick google reveals that under Tort law, merely raising a fist in a threatening manner could have gotten Oswald charged with assault if it could be shown that he had the means to do bodily harm to the intended victim. Well, according to Brewer, Oswald threw the first punch, knocking McDonald backwards.

That's it. It's all over now.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 03:12:36 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #497 on: June 14, 2018, 03:07:10 AM »
If you were keeping up Bill you may have noticed we have been addressing the significance of the term approximately

I am keeping up: You misquoted Barret.
You are not going to acknowledge that?

Typical CTroll.
You can slither back under your rock now.

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #498 on: June 14, 2018, 03:15:18 AM »
Earlene Roberts in one  video interview said that the TV was on and she was watching her favorite soap opera show when it was interrupted by the special CBS bulletin about  JFK. She says that's when Oswald came in the door. The CBS bulletin was at 12:40pm  ???


The jacket that Oswald allegedly had on , CE 162, in Walleys Taxi cab, and the one presumably he took off at his boarding room, was not found at the boarding room, but was found in the Domino room of TSBD several weeks later.   ???

So either Wally has another passenger  that he mistook for Oswald, or somebody moved CE 162 after it was found at Oswalds room, to the TSBD.  and just as with the mystery  CE 142 bag, failed to take photo of CE 162 in place at boarding room, where Oswald would have taken it off to swap for his other lighter gray jacket. (NOT WHITE THOUGH :)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 04:55:00 AM by Zeon Mason »

Offline Matt Grantham

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #499 on: June 14, 2018, 03:35:56 AM »

At 1:45, dispatch first mentions a suspect entering the Texas Theater.  What makes you believe any officers arrived at the theater before 1:45?

 The lack of any questions by the WC to establish what time they entered has significance You tell me what the evidence is as to when they entered

 

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