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Author Topic: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer  (Read 16601 times)

Online Matt Grantham

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #610 on: June 13, 2018, 10:11:26 PM »
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When someone uses the hour or half hour in their approximation, a give or take of 15 minutes seems reasonable. Some witnesses to the Tippit shooting said they heard the shots at approximately 1:00 pm. Others said approximately 1:30 pm.

Oswald was arrested at 1:50 pm, give or take a minute or two.

 What does the dispatcher saying they already got him at 1.40 signify?

 In terms of reasonable approximations It depends on the context, in a court setting I would suggest no more than five

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #610 on: June 13, 2018, 10:11:26 PM »


Online Bill Chapman

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #611 on: June 13, 2018, 10:14:34 PM »
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Thanks Tim

  Barret says he arrived sometime after 2 , yet Oswald was in custody at 1.50?

Show us where Barrett said 'sometime after 2'
Pretty sure he said 'approximately' 2

You wouldn't happen to be twisting what Barret actually said, now would you...

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #612 on: June 13, 2018, 10:16:48 PM »
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What does the dispatcher saying they already got him at 1.40 signify?

What do you think it signifies? What do you think "No, that wasn't the right one" signifies?

 
Quote
In terms of reasonable approximations It depends on the context, in a court setting I would suggest no more than five

I would suggest that you are wrong.

Online Matt Grantham

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #613 on: June 13, 2018, 10:38:02 PM »
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Show us where Barrett said 'sometime after 2'
Pretty sure he said 'approximately' 2

You wouldn't happen to be twisting what Barret actually said, now would you...

 If you were keeping up Bill you may have noticed we have been addressing the significance of the term approximately

Online Matt Grantham

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #614 on: June 13, 2018, 10:57:44 PM »
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What do you think it signifies? What do you think "No, that wasn't the right one" signifies?


 It would say it signifies something that belongs on the two Oswald's thread  Hoewever it does suggest they may not have gotten the correct Oswald at 1.40

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #614 on: June 13, 2018, 10:57:44 PM »


Online Matt Grantham

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #615 on: June 13, 2018, 11:18:20 PM »
 Am I uto understand there is nothing on the police audio transcripts about a suspect at the theater until officers have already arrived?

  It seems odd McDonald is not asked why he went to the Texas theater? Nor does Ball ask him for an estimate of the time he went there


Mr. McDONALD - After I was satisfied that this teenager that had run into the library didn't fit the description, I went back to my squad car, put my shotgun back in the rack. Just as I got into the squad car, it was reported that a suspect was seen running into the Texas Theatre, 231 West Jefferson.
So I reported to that location Code 3. This is approximately seven blocks from the library, seven blocks west.
Mr. BALL - Did you go down there with your partner?
Mr. McDONALD - No, sir; I had let my partner out on arrival; my first arrival in the 400 block.
Mr. BALL - He was on foot?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir; I didn't see him any more that day.
Mr. BALL - You went down to the Texas Theatre?




 Again with Hill The time he entered the theater is not asked

The next place I went was, I walked up the street about half a block to a church. That would have been on the northeast corner of 10th Street in the 400 block, further west of the shooting, and was preparing to go in when there were two women who came out and said they were employees inside and had been there all the time. I asked them had they seen anybody enter the church, because we were still looking for possible places for the suspect to hide. And they said nobody passed them, nobody entered the church, but they invited us to check the rest of the doors and windows and go inside if we wanted to.
An accident investigator named Bob Apple was at the location at that time, and we were standing there together near his car when the call came out that the suspect had been seen entering the Texas Theatre.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?


 Same with Westbrook


Mr. WESTBROOK. It could have been, sir; I don't recall, because I directed someone there to be sure and get her name for the report, but she lived directly across the street, and she told us--or was in the process of telling us how it occurred--what she had seen, when someone hollered a patrolman hollered--"It's just come over the radio that they've got a suspicious person in the Texas Theatre."
Then, Sergeant Stringer, I, and Agent Barrett got in another squad car, and I don't know what officer was driving this one, but then when we arrived and were approaching the theatre, I directed the patrolman to turn down into the alley instead of going around to the front because I figured there would be a lot of cars at the front. There were two or three at the back.
So, I and Barrett---Stringer went to another door, and I and Barrett---we stopped at the first one---we got out and walked to this first entrance that was nearest us, and as we walked into the door we met an employee of the theatre.
Again, I do not know his name, but it was taken, and he pointed--I don't think I said anything to him--I think he told me, he said, "The man you are looking for--" Now, right here, Barrett and I became separated for a short minute or two. I think he was on the other side of the stage, and I'm not for sure, but this boy reported--he pointed to a man that was sitting about the middle the middle row of seats pretty close to the back and he said, "That is the man you are looking for."
And I started toward him and I had taken about two or three steps--down the steps.


 Hawkins

Mr. HAWKINS. Yes, sir; he is a three-wheel officer. We went to the library and this turned out to be an employee of the library who had heard of the news and was apparently running in the library to tell the other employees there.
We then, after this checked out, we then continued circling in the area around 10th and Patton and Marsalis and Jefferson.
We then heard on the police radio that a suspicious person was at the Texas Theatre, and at this time we proceeded to the theatre.
Mr. BALL. Where did you park?
Mr. HAWKINS. I parked my squad car in the alley at the rear of the theatre.
Mr. BALL. Then, what did you do?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 11:57:59 PM by Matt Grantham »

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #616 on: June 13, 2018, 11:22:24 PM »
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OK Tim you tell me what you believe the amount of leeway the term "approximately" merits in a context such as this If such large latitudes are to be accepted then closer questioning should be required Do you have a time of arrest at the theater? Doesn't the McAdams transcript show the Dispatcher says at 1.40 'They already have hi' in reference to the Tippit suspect?


The transcript goes like this:

550/2 (Sergeant Gerald L. Hill):   A witness reports that he last was seen in the Abundant Life Temple about the 400 block. We are fixing to go in and shake it down.

Dispatcher:   Is that the one that was involved in the shooting of the officer?

550/2:  Yes.

Dispatcher: They already have him.

550/2: No, that wasn't the right one.
'
McAdams' site interleaves the traffic on the two channels, and that sometimes splits up conversations to where it's not apparent when conversations start or end. I was looking for an audio copy of the channel2 recording, but can't find it. I think the 1:44 in parentheses is an editorial addition, and may not be reliable. Ch 2 wasn't running continuously, so we don't know exactly the time of each transmission in the conversation between Hill and Dispatch. All we know is that it all happened between the dispatcher time stamps at 1:40 and 1:50 PM.

What I want to know is where Charles Batchelor came up with this one, just before 1:40: "Mrs. Connally is being flown in here from Austin. She will arrive at Love Field. A State car will be standing by but it will probably be an hour before she gets here. Notify the Command Post at Parkland to get her through when she arrives." He didn't know she was already in Dallas?
 



Online Matt Grantham

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #617 on: June 13, 2018, 11:35:15 PM »
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The transcript goes like this:

550/2 (Sergeant Gerald L. Hill):   A witness reports that he last was seen in the Abundant Life Temple about the 400 block. We are fixing to go in and shake it down.

Dispatcher:   Is that the one that was involved in the shooting of the officer?

550/2:  Yes.

Dispatcher: They already have him.

550/2: No, that wasn't the right one.
'
McAdams' site interleaves the traffic on the two channels, and that sometimes splits up conversations to where it's not apparent when conversations start or end. I was looking for an audio copy of the channel2 recording, but can't find it. I think the 1:44 in parentheses is an editorial addition, and may not be reliable. Ch 2 wasn't running continuously, so we don't know exactly the time of each transmission in the conversation between Hill and Dispatch. All we know is that it all happened between the dispatcher time stamps at 1:40 and 1:50 PM.

What I want to know is where Charles Batchelor came up with this one, just before 1:40: "Mrs. Connally is being flown in here from Austin. She will arrive at Love Field. A State car will be standing by but it will probably be an hour before she gets here. Notify the Command Post at Parkland to get her through when she arrives." He didn't know she was already in Dallas?

 Nope that is earlier What I have referred to is at 1.40

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #617 on: June 13, 2018, 11:35:15 PM »


Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #618 on: June 14, 2018, 12:26:41 AM »
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Nope that is earlier What I have referred to is at 1.40

Let me do this again.

The transcript goes like this:

Dispatcher:  1:40 p.m.

550/2 (Sergeant Gerald L. Hill):   A witness reports that he last was seen in the Abundant Life Temple about the 400 block. We are fixing to go in and shake it down.

Dispatcher:   Is that the one that was involved in the shooting of the officer?

550/2:  Yes.

Dispatcher: They already have him.

550/2: No, that wasn't the right one.

I don't see a a similar conversation in Channel 1 or channel 2 that could be mistaken for this one.

Since channel 2 isn't continuous, we don't know how long it is between the 1:40 timestamp and the beginning of the Hill/Dispatcher conversation.
'
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Online Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #619 on: June 14, 2018, 12:29:01 AM »
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OK Tim you tell me what you believe the amount of leeway the term "approximately" merits in a context such as this If such large latitudes are to be accepted then closer questioning should be required Do you have a time of arrest at the theater? Doesn't the McAdams transcript show the Dispatcher says at 1.40 'They already have hi' in reference to the Tippit suspect?

At that time, the dispatcher on channel 2 believed they had the suspect holed up in the library.  When Hill (1:44) reports that it was not the right man, he is referring to the suspect at the library NOT being the man who killed Tippit.  The man ended up being identified as library employee Adrian Hamby (who was seen running into the library by Dallas Police Officer C.T. Walker).
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 12:38:09 AM by Bill Brown »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #619 on: June 14, 2018, 12:29:01 AM »