Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer  (Read 130916 times)

Offline John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2627
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #200 on: May 25, 2018, 01:44:06 AM »
The person Benavides describes, the one holding a gun, right after the shots were fired that killed Tippit,

doesn't match a photo of LHO taken while in custody on 11/22/63. So yes, by default, Benavides says the

killer wasn't Oswald.


Testimony Of Domingo Benavides

Mr. BELIN - Where were you when your vehicle stopped?
Mr. BENAVIDES - About 15 foot, just directly across the street and maybe a car length away from the police car.

~snip~

Mr. Belin: Let me ask you now, I would like you to relate again the action of the man with the gun as you saw him now.

Mr. Benavides: As I saw him, I really--I mean really got a good view of the man after the bullets were fired he had just turned. He was just turning away........

~snip~

Mr. BENAVIDES - I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline was sort of--looked like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapered off. and he looked like he needed a haircut for about 2 weeks, but his hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off and made his head look fiat in back.

~snip~




 :D

When the back of someones head becomes the standard practice for eyewitness identification then we'll sure come looking for ya but until then Benavides positively testified that the front of the man was Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.




JohnM

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #201 on: May 25, 2018, 02:06:07 AM »

Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.

Resembled? I figured? From a picture? Uhhh doesn't sound exactly like a positive ID to me.
 
 



 
 

Offline John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2627
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #202 on: May 25, 2018, 02:12:24 AM »
Resembled? I figured? From a picture? Uhhh doesn't sound exactly like a positive ID to me.



Who cares what it sounds like to you?
Benavides wasn't a Rhodes Scholar like yourself, Benavides was a mechanic and that's how he talked, get used to it.




JohnM

Offline Gary Craig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 935
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #203 on: May 25, 2018, 02:21:06 AM »
Mr. BELIN - What did you see then?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I then pulled on up and I seen this officer standing by the door. The door was open to the car, and I was pretty close to him, and I seen Oswald, or the man that shot him, standing on the other side of the car.

 ::)

Offline John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2627
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #204 on: May 25, 2018, 02:33:20 AM »
Mr. BELIN - What did you see then?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I then pulled on up and I seen this officer standing by the door. The door was open to the car, and I was pretty close to him, and I seen Oswald, or the man that shot him, standing on the other side of the car.

 ::)





Seriously, it's just how Benavides spoke and when asked to clarify he couldn't have been more sure that the man was Oswald.

Mr. BELIN - What did you see then?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I then pulled on up and I seen this officer standing by the door. The door was open to the car, and I was pretty close to him, and I seen Oswald, or the man that shot him, standing on the other side of the car.


Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.


I suppose it was just a mass hallucination that nearly a dozen people all identified Oswald as the man who was at or moving away from the Tippit crime scene.



JohnM

Offline Gary Craig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 935
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #205 on: May 25, 2018, 02:41:28 AM »




Seriously, it's just how Benavides spoke and when asked to clarify he couldn't have been more sure that the man was Oswald.

Mr. BELIN - What did you see then?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I then pulled on up and I seen this officer standing by the door. The door was open to the car, and I was pretty close to him, and I seen Oswald, or the man that shot him, standing on the other side of the car.


Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.


I suppose it was just a mass hallucination that nearly a dozen people all identified Oswald as the man who was at or moving away from the Tippit crime scene.

JohnM

Ya well, the standards used by the Warren Commission wouldn't hold water in most court rooms in the

civilized world. Was Dallas considered part of the civilized world in 1963?

from
"VINNIE IT IS ROUND"
by Mark Lane


                     "The Commission claimed that Mrs. Markham identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man who shot the policeman at a line up on November 22 and that in testimony before the Commission, Mrs. Markham confirmed her positive identification of Lee Harvey Oswald as the man she saw kill Officer Tippit. Captain Fritz - who needed that identification real quickly -- testified that the lineup was hurriedly arranged at 4:30 that afternoon, less than three and a half hours after Tippit's death and less than that after Oswald's arrest. Mrs. Markham was "quite hysterical" when she arrived at police headquarters. Her state and the atmosphere in the lineup room are best described by the record of her testimony."

Q: Now when you went into the room you looked these people over, these four men?

Markham: Yes , sir.

Q: Did you recognize anyone in the lineup?

Markham: No, sir

Q: You did not? Did you see anybody-I have asked you that question before-did you recognize anybody from their face?

          "Counsel wished to remind Mrs. Markham that when he had prepared her for her testimony, before
a record of her answers was made, the matter had been discussed. To prepare a witness for testimony may
be acceptable where adversary and hostile cross-examination is expected, and it is also a legitimate way of
preventing repetition and irrelevant conjecture. The record of the Warren Commission, however, reveals no
such cross-examination and was burdened to such a degree by repetition and irrelevance that the initial
preparation seems to have been for the purpose of leading the witness to give an appropriate answer."


Markham: From their face, no.

Q: Did you identify anybody in these four people?

Markham: I didn't know nobody.

Q: I know you didn't know nobody, but did anybody in that lineup look like anybody you had seen before?

Markham: No. I had never seen none of them, none of these men.

Q: No one of the four?

Markham: No one of them.

Q: No one of the four?

Markham: No, sir.

        "At this point counsel, a teacher of criminal law and procedure at the University of Southern California and a member of the U.S. Judicial Conference Advisory Committee on Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, asked a rather leading question. Mrs. Markham said that she recognized no one at the lineup; counsel tried five times for a more acceptable answer. Then, departing a little from the legal procedure he teaches, he next asked his friendly but disconcerting witness, "Was there a number two man in there?" Mrs. Markham replied, "Number two is the one I picked." Counsel began another question: "I thought you just told me that you hadn't, but Mrs. Markham interrupted to answer inexplicably, "I thought you wanted me to describe their clothing."

Counsel then inquired:

Q: You recognized him from his appearance?

Markham: I asked-I looked at him. When I saw this man I wasn't sure, but I had cold chills just run all over me.

        "A mystical identification at best. However, the Commission was satisfied that its lawyer had at last
obtained the right answer: "Addressing itself solely to the probative value of Mrs. Markham's contemporaneous description of the gunman and her identification of Oswald at a police lineup, the Commission considers her testimony reliable."


Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #206 on: May 25, 2018, 02:44:21 AM »
... and I seen Oswald, or the man that shot him ... ::)

"Who cares what it sounds like?"

 
 

Offline John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2627
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #207 on: May 25, 2018, 02:58:37 AM »
Ya well, the standards used by the Warren Commission wouldn't hold water in most court rooms in the

civilized world. Was Dallas considered part of the civilized world in 1963?

from
"VINNIE IT IS ROUND"
by Mark Lane


                     "The Commission claimed that Mrs. Markham identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man who shot the policeman at a line up on November 22 and that in testimony before the Commission, Mrs. Markham confirmed her positive identification of Lee Harvey Oswald as the man she saw kill Officer Tippit. Captain Fritz - who needed that identification real quickly -- testified that the lineup was hurriedly arranged at 4:30 that afternoon, less than three and a half hours after Tippit's death and less than that after Oswald's arrest. Mrs. Markham was "quite hysterical" when she arrived at police headquarters. Her state and the atmosphere in the lineup room are best described by the record of her testimony."

Q: Now when you went into the room you looked these people over, these four men?

Markham: Yes , sir.

Q: Did you recognize anyone in the lineup?

Markham: No, sir

Q: You did not? Did you see anybody-I have asked you that question before-did you recognize anybody from their face?

          "Counsel wished to remind Mrs. Markham that when he had prepared her for her testimony, before
a record of her answers was made, the matter had been discussed. To prepare a witness for testimony may
be acceptable where adversary and hostile cross-examination is expected, and it is also a legitimate way of
preventing repetition and irrelevant conjecture. The record of the Warren Commission, however, reveals no
such cross-examination and was burdened to such a degree by repetition and irrelevance that the initial
preparation seems to have been for the purpose of leading the witness to give an appropriate answer."


Markham: From their face, no.

Q: Did you identify anybody in these four people?

Markham: I didn't know nobody.

Q: I know you didn't know nobody, but did anybody in that lineup look like anybody you had seen before?

Markham: No. I had never seen none of them, none of these men.

Q: No one of the four?

Markham: No one of them.

Q: No one of the four?

Markham: No, sir.

        "At this point counsel, a teacher of criminal law and procedure at the University of Southern California and a member of the U.S. Judicial Conference Advisory Committee on Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, asked a rather leading question. Mrs. Markham said that she recognized no one at the lineup; counsel tried five times for a more acceptable answer. Then, departing a little from the legal procedure he teaches, he next asked his friendly but disconcerting witness, "Was there a number two man in there?" Mrs. Markham replied, "Number two is the one I picked." Counsel began another question: "I thought you just told me that you hadn't, but Mrs. Markham interrupted to answer inexplicably, "I thought you wanted me to describe their clothing."

Counsel then inquired:

Q: You recognized him from his appearance?

Markham: I asked-I looked at him. When I saw this man I wasn't sure, but I had cold chills just run all over me.

        "A mystical identification at best. However, the Commission was satisfied that its lawyer had at last
obtained the right answer: "Addressing itself solely to the probative value of Mrs. Markham's contemporaneous description of the gunman and her identification of Oswald at a police lineup, the Commission considers her testimony reliable."





Ffs, you have posted this more times than I've had hot dinners. Markham is clearly saying that she never recognized the men before the incident. -sigh-
But as has been pointed out to you Markham positively ID'd Oswald on the same day and in Markham's testimony she said the number 2 man and that man was Oswald.

Mr. BALL. What about number two, what did you mean when you said number two?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.




JohnM

Offline Gary Craig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 935
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #208 on: May 25, 2018, 03:13:05 AM »



Ffs, you have posted this more times than I've had hot dinners. Markham is clearly saying that she never recognized the men before the incident. -sigh-
But as has been pointed out to you Markham positively ID'd Oswald on the same day and in Markham's testimony she said the number 2 man and that man was Oswald.

Mr. BALL. What about number two, what did you mean when you said number two?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.


JohnM

Coaching and leading a witness to the answer the questioner wants isn't allowed in courts of law.

The standards set by the WC are a different matter.

If you want to hang your hat on that pile of steaming crap, be my guest.

Offline Matt Grantham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #209 on: May 25, 2018, 06:13:09 AM »


Who cares what it sounds like to you?
Benavides wasn't a Rhodes Scholar like yourself, Benavides was a mechanic and that's how he talked, get used to it.




JohnM

 Too bad the back side of the Oswalds head was someone elses

 

Mobile View