Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

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Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2680 on: May 26, 2022, 11:48:52 AM »
And, if it did happen, it is possible neither dispatcher would notice it "right away", but immensely unlikely it wouldn't be noticed as the timestamps drifted further and further apart, until there was a five minute difference [ a difference Bowles never even hinted at].

The five minute difference would have been between what Bowles described as "police time" and "real time". The dispatcher would not be aware of any difference, because they had no way of knowing if and by how much their own clocks (which they related to the master clock in the room) would be behind or faster than "real time".

If there was a difference between "real time" and the master clock of two minutes and a difference of two minutes between the master clock and the clocks used by the dispatchers, you already have a difference of four minutes between "real time" and the dispatcher's clocks.

It doesn't have to be proven conclusively what the exact time difference, to the precise second, was between the dispatcher's clocks and/or time stamps and "real time". The mere possibility that Bowles basically told us that the system wasn't set up to give "real time" is enough to conclude that the time stamps called out but dispatcher can not be relied upon as being accurate.


The evidence I have provided and the arguments I have presented as a result of this evidence, have shown, to a very high degree of probability, that the timestamps in the dispatchers office are synchronised with events happening in Dealey Plaza, specifically the time given on the Hertz clock (corroborated by the testimonies of Powers and Greer).
As such, there is no need to refer to the master clock or "real" time (whatever that means).

"If there was a difference between "real time" and the master clock of two minutes and a difference of two minutes between the master clock and the clocks used by the dispatchers, you already have a difference of four minutes between "real time" and the dispatcher's clocks."

Because I have focused on synchronising the dispatchers timestamps with "Dealey" time the above argument is no longer relevant. The only way for a five minute discrepancy to occur is for the dispatcher's clock for channel 1 to drift 5 minutes away from the moment of 12:30pm, synchronised with "Dealey" time.
For the Tippit shooting to have occurred around 1;10pm that would require a 5 drift shift in 40 minutes (from 12:30pm to 1:10pm)
The Brewer evidence demonstrates channel 2 was still in synch with "Dealey" time around 12:39pm.

The problem I am having is that, from the testimonies of Henslee and Cason, we have a situation where Murray and Henslee are sat at the same radio board that day and, more importantly, Henslee is not only the channel 2 dispatcher, he is also supervising channel 1, meaning he is across both channels.
I find it most unlikely, given this situation, that the channel 1 dispatcher is calling out timestamps that are 5 minutes different from channel 2, and Henslee isn't noticing it.
This drift would've occurred over a period of time, getting gradually worse, so there would be plenty of time and opportunities for the discrepancy to be noticed, particularly as there are so many examples of the dispatchers calling out the same timestamp.

The only other alternative I can see is that both clocks gradually drifted away from "Dealey" time until there was a 5 minute discrepancy, but I find this scenario extremely unlikely.

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2680 on: May 26, 2022, 11:48:52 AM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2681 on: May 26, 2022, 01:47:52 PM »

The evidence I have provided and the arguments I have presented as a result of this evidence, have shown, to a very high degree of probability, that the timestamps in the dispatchers office are synchronised with events happening in Dealey Plaza, specifically the time given on the Hertz clock (corroborated by the testimonies of Powers and Greer).
As such, there is no need to refer to the master clock or "real" time (whatever that means).

"If there was a difference between "real time" and the master clock of two minutes and a difference of two minutes between the master clock and the clocks used by the dispatchers, you already have a difference of four minutes between "real time" and the dispatcher's clocks."

Because I have focused on synchronising the dispatchers timestamps with "Dealey" time the above argument is no longer relevant. The only way for a five minute discrepancy to occur is for the dispatcher's clock for channel 1 to drift 5 minutes away from the moment of 12:30pm, synchronised with "Dealey" time.
For the Tippit shooting to have occurred around 1;10pm that would require a 5 drift shift in 40 minutes (from 12:30pm to 1:10pm)
The Brewer evidence demonstrates channel 2 was still in synch with "Dealey" time around 12:39pm.

The problem I am having is that, from the testimonies of Henslee and Cason, we have a situation where Murray and Henslee are sat at the same radio board that day and, more importantly, Henslee is not only the channel 2 dispatcher, he is also supervising channel 1, meaning he is across both channels.
I find it most unlikely, given this situation, that the channel 1 dispatcher is calling out timestamps that are 5 minutes different from channel 2, and Henslee isn't noticing it.
This drift would've occurred over a period of time, getting gradually worse, so there would be plenty of time and opportunities for the discrepancy to be noticed, particularly as there are so many examples of the dispatchers calling out the same timestamp.

The only other alternative I can see is that both clocks gradually drifted away from "Dealey" time until there was a 5 minute discrepancy, but I find this scenario extremely unlikely.

the timestamps in the dispatchers office are synchronised with events happening in Dealey Plaza, specifically the time given on the Hertz clock (corroborated by the testimonies of Powers and Greer). As such, there is no need to refer to the master clock or "real" time (whatever that means).

Of course there is that need, as Bowles made it absolutely clear that the dispatcher's clocks were not in synch with the master clock, which in turn was not in synch with "real" time. With "real" time he clearly means actual standard time. Unless you can show that the Hertz clock and those of Powers and Greer were spot on in synch with "real" time, the dispatcher's time stamps being synchronised with those time pieces doesn't prove that they were in synch with real time.

This drift would've occurred over a period of time, getting gradually worse, so there would be plenty of time and opportunities for the discrepancy to be noticed, particularly as there are so many examples of the dispatchers calling out the same timestamp.

Well, they actually didn't call out any time stamp between 1:16 and 1:19. I haven't checked prior to that, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were other gaps like this as well.

The only other alternative I can see is that both clocks gradually drifted away from "Dealey" time until there was a 5 minute discrepancy, but I find this scenario extremely unlikely.

This is flawed reasoning, because you can not be sure that "Dealey" time is the same as "real" standard time.

This matter of the dispatcher's clocks being out of synch with "real" time (which is what Bowles said they were) can not be discussed in isolation. If you want to make the case that the dispatcher's clock did in fact reflect "real" time, then you also need to explain (1) how Markham could possibly still be at the corner of 10th/Patton at 1:15 (real time), when she testified she got on her regular bus, at the bus stop on Jefferson, at that time.

Markham only had to walk two blocks in about four minutes to get from her home to the bus stop on Jefferson and she did the same thing every day. She testified that she left home at about 1:06  or 1:07, which means she would have passed by 10th street some four to five minutes prior to the shooting, if that took place at 1:15! How can that be?

And then there is Bowley. He had just picked up his daughter from school and was on his way to pick up his wife from her place of work on 9th street. He must have been acutely aware of the time, as any parent picking up a child from school is. R. L. Thornton School in Singing Hills, where Bowley picked up his daughter "at about 12:55 pm", is around 7 miles or about 13 minutes away from 10th street, which, when added another two minutes, means that Bowley would have arrived at the scene at around 1:10. He said he looked at his watch which said 1:10. If he had needed another four minutes to drive the distance, he still would have arrived on time to witness the shooting, if that took place at 1:15. As he actually arrived about 2 minutes (max) after the shooting, his drive time would have been some 22 minutes for a 13 minute distance. Does that sound plausible to you?

« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 07:07:30 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2681 on: May 26, 2022, 01:47:52 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2682 on: May 26, 2022, 03:26:58 PM »
Because I have focused on synchronising the dispatchers timestamps with "Dealey" time the above argument is no longer relevant. The only way for a five minute discrepancy to occur is for the dispatcher's clock for channel 1 to drift 5 minutes away from the moment of 12:30pm, synchronised with "Dealey" time.
For the Tippit shooting to have occurred around 1;10pm that would require a 5 drift shift in 40 minutes (from 12:30pm to 1:10pm)

No, because we’re discussing what the real time was when Tippit was shot, not the “Dealey time”.

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2682 on: May 26, 2022, 03:26:58 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2683 on: May 26, 2022, 03:39:58 PM »
Well, they actually didn't call out any time stamp between 1:16 and 1:19.

And none on channel 2 between 1:12 and 1:18.

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2683 on: May 26, 2022, 03:39:58 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2684 on: July 30, 2022, 05:26:27 AM »
I do not know if it has ever been linked before but below is the google map walking prompt from 1026 N Beckley to 408 E 10th [where Tippit was shot]...showing the *shortest distance at 17 minutes. I walked it years ago and it took me *18. The walk south BTW is uphill. The start time is questionably 1:00 or after---
Once again...How does the walk time + the police stop and chat w/suspect time + the confrontation time + the shooting time + the onlooker gets to the radio and calls dispatch time = 1:16? [Sixteen minutes or less]

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/1026+North+Beckley+Avenue,+Dallas,+TX/408+E+10th+St,+Dallas,+TX+75203/@32.7501084,-96.8202632,1988m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e999d1b785c03:0xf4b8e76beb3a162d!2m2!1d-96.8226033!2d32.7558212!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e9999e27dc995:0x74404ad9827de298!2m2!1d-96.8181642!2d32.7472428!3e2?hl=en

* Beckley to left on Davis to right on Patton to left on 10th

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2684 on: July 30, 2022, 05:26:27 AM »

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2685 on: July 30, 2022, 07:12:21 PM »
I do not know if it has ever been linked before but below is the google map walking prompt from 1026 N Beckley to 408 E 10th [where Tippit was shot]...showing the *shortest distance at 17 minutes. I walked it years ago and it took me *18. The walk south BTW is uphill. The start time is questionably 1:00 or after---
Once again...How does the walk time + the police stop and chat w/suspect time + the confrontation time + the shooting time + the onlooker gets to the radio and calls dispatch time = 1:16? [Sixteen minutes or less]

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/1026+North+Beckley+Avenue,+Dallas,+TX/408+E+10th+St,+Dallas,+TX+75203/@32.7501084,-96.8202632,1988m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e999d1b785c03:0xf4b8e76beb3a162d!2m2!1d-96.8226033!2d32.7558212!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e9999e27dc995:0x74404ad9827de298!2m2!1d-96.8181642!2d32.7472428!3e2?hl=en

* Beckley to left on Davis to right on Patton to left on 10th

I walked that exact route back in March of 2020 and it took me a little less than 12 minutes and 30 seconds.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 07:13:04 PM by Bill Brown »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2685 on: July 30, 2022, 07:12:21 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2686 on: July 30, 2022, 08:20:51 PM »
I walked that exact route back in March of 2020 and it took me a little less than 12 minutes and 30 seconds.
I guess that is because you were in quite a hurry to go kill a cop huh? Did you have your gun with you? Was it tucked in your waistband so as to not fall out at your go-get-em speed? And knew right where to go at 4.8 miles an hour?
 
Quote
How Long Does It Take to Walk a Mile?
Most people can expect to walk a mile in 15 to 22 minutes, according to data gathered in a 2019 study spanning five decades. The average walking pace is 2.5 to 4 mph, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Factors that affect the speed of your pace include physical fitness levels, the incline and your age.
https://www.nike.com/hr/a/how-long-does-it-take-to-walk-a-mile

That would make at the outside... normally about 17.6 minutes to hike the .8 mile suggested distance.
3 miles an hour is really setting out to walk a mile [on flat ground] in 20 minutes.
Then again..where in hell were are you headed anyway?

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2686 on: July 30, 2022, 08:20:51 PM »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2687 on: August 06, 2022, 08:01:52 PM »
It is unbelievable that someone would post this nonsense on a public board after all we now know about the Tippit shooting. Here are just a few of the facts that point away from Oswald:

-- Warren Reynolds did not see the shooting but saw the gunman running from the scene of the crime. He claimed that the man was not Oswald. After he survived an attempt to kill him, he changed his mind and identified Oswald as the man he had seen.

-- Four cartridge cases were found lying on the ground near the scene of the murder. It would seem that the killer had opened the chamber of his gun and manually ejected the cases. Instead of immediately fleeing the scene of the crime, he deliberately stopped and discarded four vital pieces of evidence that could have been used against him. And of course WC apologists just gobble up this tale.

-- The four cartridge cases were traced to Oswald's revolver, but they were never matched to the bullets. Simply put, the slugs from Tippit's body do not match the shells in evidence.

-- Not one of the shells in evidence has Sergeant W. E. Barnes' or Patrolman J. M. Poe's initials on it, even though both men said they marked two of the shells. Sergeant Gerald Hill testified that he told Poe to be "sure" to mark two of the shells.

-- Helen Markham said the shooting occurred at 1:06 or 1:07. She had left her home, about one block from the site of the shooting, just after 1 pm, to go to work. She was about one and a half minutes’ walk from the bus stop where she was about to catch her regular bus. She caught this bus every day she worked. According to the Dallas Transit System, the bus was scheduled to arrive at 1:12 and she routinely arrived at least five minutes early, so the shooting must have occurred at around 1:07-1:10. There is no way Oswald could have walked from his house to 10th and Patton in time to be seen by Markham there.

-- The police lineups where Oswald was "identified" were brazenly unfair. He was the only one who was dressed shabbily. A monkey would have "identified" Oswald at those lineups.

-- Tippit's very presence in the Oak Cliff area, far from his assigned area, at a time when all DPD officers had been ordered to go downtown or to Parkland smacks of conspiracy. It took the DPD weeks to "discover" the transmission that ordered Tippit to Oak Cliff.

-- The fingerprints on Tippit's passenger door and on the right front fender were not Oswald's.

-- The FBI found that Oswald’s revolver was defective—it would not fire because the firing pin did not work properly. Dr. Gerald McKnight:

The first indication that Oswald’s .38 Smith and Wesson revolver was defective surfaced in the Warren report’s account of his arrest in the Texas Theatre. The reported stated that while Oswald was scuffling with one of the arresting officers, “a click” was heard, which the report identified as the sound of Oswald’s handgun misfiring. Later, when the FBI crime lab examined the four empty .38 hulls retrieved from the Tippit crime scene, none of the cartridges bore firing-pin indentations. Based on the physical evidence, BuLab [the FBI crime lab] surmised, “the firing pin would not strike one or more of the cartridges with sufficient force to fire them.” The FBI was confronted with the strong likelihood
that Oswald’s pistol was so hopelessly defective that it could not have been used
in the Tippit shooting. This could explain why the FBI was so conspicuously
indifferent about collecting and testing the three slugs Dr. Rose had removed
from the slain policeman’s body. (McKnight, Breach of Trust: How the Warren
Commission Failed the Nation and Why
, University Press of Kansas, 2013, p.
146)


Donald Wilkes of the University of Georgia law school doesn't buy the case against Oswald in the Tippit shooting:

After shooting Tippit the killer conveniently discarded four empty .38 caliber shells, which were identified by FBI experts as having been fired from the pistol Oswald possessed at arrest. There are, however, strong suspicions that the shells handed over to the FBI by Dallas police were not the shells found at the crime scene. Furthermore, the shells did not correspond with the bullets removed from Tippit’s body during his autopsy--a strange fact which the Warren Report desperately but unsuccessfully tried to explain away. Two of the shells were Winchesters and two were Remingtons, but the bullets recovered from Tippit consisted of three Winchesters and one Remington. (FBI experts could not link the bullets taken from Tippit’s corpse to Oswald’s revolver, for two reasons: first, the bullets were too mutilated; second, the barrel of the weapon had--apparently before Oswald bought it--been altered, and test-firing the revolver showed that consecutive bullets fired from the revolver could not be identified as having been fired from that revolver.) Even accepting that Oswald owned and possessed the weapon in question, and that the shells tested by the FBI had been fired from that weapon, therefore, the ballistics evidence is questionable.

As for the zipper jacket, the evidence that Tippit’s killer wore it is doubtful, the
evidence that it was worn by or ever belonged to Oswald is weak, and the
circumstances under which it was allegedly found (by a still unidentified Dallas
policeman) lying on the ground in a service station parking lot have never been
satisfactorily explained. There is an excellent account of the suspicious nature of the jacket evidence in the Meagher book. (The jacket, incidentally, bore a laundry or dry-cleaning tag which the FBI was unable to trace.)

It may well be, therefore, as James P. Duffy and Vincent L. Rice suggest in their book The Assassination of John F. Kennedy (1992), that Tippit’s murder “had no connection ... with Oswald, that [it] was committed by an unknown person for reasons entirely unconnected with the president’s assassination, and that the murder charge was pinned on Oswald.” (https://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1145&context=fac_pm)


These are just some of the problems with the case against Oswald in the Tippit shooting. That case is a bunch of hokum consisting of witnesses who were pressured to change their story, witnesses who "identified" Oswald in grossly unfair lineups, suppressed evidence, and sloppily planted evidence.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_j_022lJYli3B5Xyw8wLs-0nl6mDLo2t/view


« Last Edit: August 06, 2022, 08:06:11 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2687 on: August 06, 2022, 08:01:52 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2688 on: August 10, 2022, 03:35:47 PM »

As for the zipper jacket, the evidence that Tippit’s killer wore it is doubtful, the
evidence that it was worn by or ever belonged to Oswald is weak, and the
circumstances under which it was allegedly found (by a still unidentified Dallas
policeman) lying on the ground in a service station parking lot have never been
satisfactorily explained.
Wondering if there is still DNA presence of the wearer of this jacket which AFAIK is presently stored in the Natl Archives.

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2688 on: August 10, 2022, 03:35:47 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2689 on: August 10, 2022, 03:49:42 PM »
Wondering if there is still DNA presence of the wearer of this jacket which AFAIK is presently stored in the Natl Archives.

Or Tippit's DNA on Oswald's shoes or pants after Oswald shot him in the head.  Of course, that would be deemed faked by CTers.  In terms of Oswald's jacket, it's likely that DNA of many people would be found.  It has been handled by the investigators and folks at the Archives etc.  It is likely also a secondhand jacket that Oswald acquired given the laundry mark.

 

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