Lee Oswald The Cop Killer


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Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2672 on: May 25, 2022, 01:24:31 AM »
This is how Frances Cason describes the situation in the radio dispatchers office:

Mrs. Cason: These are the initials of Officer M. J. Jackson who was working on the radio with Officer C. E. Hulse at the time the calls were dispatched. The way our radio is set up part of the squads are handled by this officer on one side of the board and part of the squads and the ambulances and APB, which is traffic investigators are handled by the officer on the other side of the radio board, and Mr. Jackson was sitting on the side of the board that would handle a call in the downtown area.

She appears to be describing a situation where both dispatchers sit at the same radio board. This implies the dispatchers are sat in close proximity. This seems to be confirmed by Gerald Henslee:

Mr. Henslee: Well, in this instance, I was not only supervising the channel 1 radio and the incoming radio calls, but was the police dispatcher for channel 2, covering the special event of the arrival of the President of the United States, President Kennedy.

On the day of the assassination Henslee and Murray are sat at the radio board and Henslee is across both channels.
I find it hard to believe that, in this given situation, each dispatcher is unaware of the calls of the other.
As such, I find it even harder to believe that one channel can wander off from the other by a minute let alone five minutes. Particularly as there are regular intervals when both dispatchers call the same timestamp:

12:34
12:35
12:36
12:40
12:45
12:51
12:54
1:11
1:12
1:19

The timestamp at 12:45pm is a particularly clear example of both channels being in synch with each other:



The available evidence suggests, in terms timestamps, the events in Dealey Plaza and the DP dispatch office are in synch at 12:30pm
Brewers' call on channel 2, between 12:37 and 12:40pm, is supported by the picture of him riding the wrong way up Elm at 12:39pm
Both channels are in synch at 12:45pm and there is no evidence I can find, in the tape transcripts or otherwise, that suggests the channels go out of synch up to the point of Bowley's call.





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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2672 on: May 25, 2022, 01:24:31 AM »


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2673 on: May 25, 2022, 01:49:57 AM »
I find it hard to believe that, in this given situation, each dispatcher is unaware of the calls of the other.
As such, I find it even harder to believe that one channel can wander off from the other by a minute let alone five minutes.

Finding something “hard to believe” isn’t particularly dispositive. Particularly when Bowles said the clocks couldn’t be relied upon to be in synch.


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Particularly as there are regular intervals when both dispatchers call the same timestamp:

You couldn’t possibly know that they called the same timestamp at the same time. Those transcripts are aligned with each other based on the time announcements. You’re making a circular argument.

The Brewer thing is actually a good catch. But even if that is Brewer, his broadcast was also on channel 2, so that doesn’t add any new information to help with the Tippit timings.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2674 on: May 25, 2022, 02:51:12 AM »
Finding something “hard to believe” isn’t particularly dispositive. Particularly when Bowles said the clocks couldn’t be relied upon to be in synch.

It's nice of you to leave out why I find it hard to believe.
The situation is this:

Murray and Henslee are sat at the same radio board.
Not only is Henslee dispatcher 2 he is also supervising channel 1
Both dispatchers have their own clocks
There is no reason to believe Henslee is unaware of the timestamps Murray is giving.
If Murray's clock drifts out by 5 minutes their is no reason to believe Henslee would not notice this, particularly as he is supervising channel 1
The only logical way channel 1 timestamps could drift out by 5 minutes, unnoticed by Henslee, would be if both clocks independently drifted out by this unprecedented amount of time, at the same rate.
Common sense dictates that this is so unlikely as to be disregarded as a consideration.

That's why I find it hard to believe.

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You couldn’t possibly know that they called the same timestamp at the same time.

I never said this.

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Those transcripts are aligned with each other based on the time announcements.

I never mentioned anything about the alignment of the transcripts.

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You’re making a circular argument.

You're making things up

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The Brewer thing is actually a good catch. But even if that is Brewer, his broadcast was also on channel 2, so that doesn’t add any new information to help with the Tippit timings.

The Brewer thing is just to demonstrate that channel 2 is still in synch with the events in Dealey Plaza at 12:39pm

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2674 on: May 25, 2022, 02:51:12 AM »


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2675 on: May 25, 2022, 05:14:21 AM »
It's nice of you to leave out why I find it hard to believe.

That’s because it doesn’t matter what you believe.

You don’t know that Murray and Henslee “sat at the same radio board”. Neither Cason or Henslee said that. That was just something you read into it. And obviously the two radio dispatcher clocks could drift apart without them being aware of it right away because Bowles said that they did.

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I never said this.

You claimed that “there are regular intervals when both dispatchers call the same timestamp”. You can’t possibly know that.

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The Brewer thing is just to demonstrate that channel 2 is still in synch with the events in Dealey Plaza at 12:39pm

Ok.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2676 on: May 25, 2022, 05:45:26 AM »
This is how Frances Cason describes the situation in the radio dispatchers office:

Mrs. Cason: These are the initials of Officer M. J. Jackson who was working on the radio with Officer C. E. Hulse at the time the calls were dispatched. The way our radio is set up part of the squads are handled by this officer on one side of the board and part of the squads and the ambulances and APB, which is traffic investigators are handled by the officer on the other side of the radio board, and Mr. Jackson was sitting on the side of the board that would handle a call in the downtown area.

She appears to be describing a situation where both dispatchers sit at the same radio board. This implies the dispatchers are sat in close proximity. This seems to be confirmed by Gerald Henslee:

Mr. Henslee: Well, in this instance, I was not only supervising the channel 1 radio and the incoming radio calls, but was the police dispatcher for channel 2, covering the special event of the arrival of the President of the United States, President Kennedy.

On the day of the assassination Henslee and Murray are sat at the radio board and Henslee is across both channels.
I find it hard to believe that, in this given situation, each dispatcher is unaware of the calls of the other.
As such, I find it even harder to believe that one channel can wander off from the other by a minute let alone five minutes. Particularly as there are regular intervals when both dispatchers call the same timestamp:

12:34
12:35
12:36
12:40
12:45
12:51
12:54
1:11
1:12
1:19

The timestamp at 12:45pm is a particularly clear example of both channels being in synch with each other:



The available evidence suggests, in terms timestamps, the events in Dealey Plaza and the DP dispatch office are in synch at 12:30pm
Brewers' call on channel 2, between 12:37 and 12:40pm, is supported by the picture of him riding the wrong way up Elm at 12:39pm
Both channels are in synch at 12:45pm and there is no evidence I can find, in the tape transcripts or otherwise, that suggests the channels go out of synch up to the point of Bowley's call.

Nice work, to help visualize what the DPD may have looked like, these are some random Police radio rooms and as expected they are similar to how the Dallas radio room is described with both operators being reasonably close.











JohnM

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2677 on: May 25, 2022, 09:10:12 AM »
That’s because it doesn’t matter what you believe.

You don’t know that Murray and Henslee “sat at the same radio board”. Neither Cason or Henslee said that. That was just something you read into it.

Cason said:
"The way our radio is set up part of the squads are handled by this officer on one side of the board and part of the squads and the ambulances and APB, which is traffic investigators are handled by the officer on the other side of the radio board..."

The [singular] radio board.
I'm not reading anything into it, that's how English works.
Cason does not say Murray was sat at one board and Henslee was sat at another.
They were sat at the same radio board.
You might believe there's another way of interpreting what Cason said, but it doesn't matter what you believe.

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And obviously the two radio dispatcher clocks could drift apart without them being aware of it right away because Bowles said that they did.

Wrong. Bowles said the clocks "could" drift apart.
You seem to believe just because Bowles said it "could" happen, that it "did" happen.
And, if it did happen, it is possible neither dispatcher would notice it "right away", but immensely unlikely it wouldn't be noticed as the timestamps drifted further and further apart, until there was a five minute difference [ a difference Bowles never even hinted at].

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You claimed that “there are regular intervals when both dispatchers call the same timestamp”. You can’t possibly know that.

All the available evidence points to the conclusion that this is the case.
There is nothing to suggest otherwise. Is there?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 09:11:22 AM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2677 on: May 25, 2022, 09:10:12 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2678 on: May 25, 2022, 05:49:03 PM »
Cason said:
"The way our radio is set up part of the squads are handled by this officer on one side of the board and part of the squads and the ambulances and APB, which is traffic investigators are handled by the officer on the other side of the radio board..."

The [singular] radio board.
I'm not reading anything into it, that's how English works.
Cason does not say Murray was sat at one board and Henslee was sat at another.
They were sat at the same radio board.
You might believe there's another way of interpreting what Cason said, but it doesn't matter what you believe.

Wrong. Bowles said the clocks "could" drift apart.
You seem to believe just because Bowles said it "could" happen, that it "did" happen.
And, if it did happen, it is possible neither dispatcher would notice it "right away", but immensely unlikely it wouldn't be noticed as the timestamps drifted further and further apart, until there was a five minute difference [ a difference Bowles never even hinted at].

All the available evidence points to the conclusion that this is the case.
There is nothing to suggest otherwise. Is there?

And, if it did happen, it is possible neither dispatcher would notice it "right away", but immensely unlikely it wouldn't be noticed as the timestamps drifted further and further apart, until there was a five minute difference [ a difference Bowles never even hinted at].

The five minute difference would have been between what Bowles described as "police time" and "real time". The dispatcher would not be aware of any difference, because they had no way of knowing if and by how much their own clocks (which they related to the master clock in the room) would be behind or faster than "real time".

If there was a difference between "real time" and the master clock of two minutes and a difference of two minutes between the master clock and the clocks used by the dispatchers, you already have a difference of four minutes between "real time" and the dispatcher's clocks.

It doesn't have to be proven conclusively what the exact time difference, to the precise second, was between the dispatcher's clocks and/or time stamps and "real time". The mere possibility that Bowles basically told us that the system wasn't set up to give "real time" is enough to conclude that the time stamps called out but dispatcher can not be relied upon as being accurate.


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2679 on: May 26, 2022, 07:32:22 AM »
I'm not reading anything into it, that's how English works.
Cason does not say Murray was sat at one board and Henslee was sat at another.
They were sat at the same radio board.

Cason didn’t say anything about Murray or Henslee at all. Or the radio dispatchers. Regardless, she didn’t say that the people sitting at this singular board were close enough to see each other’s clocks. Or hear each other. If they could, why have separate clocks in the first place?

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Wrong. Bowles said the clocks "could" drift apart.

What do you mean “wrong”? That’s exactly what I said.

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You seem to believe just because Bowles said it "could" happen, that it "did" happen.

I never said that. All I said was that we don’t know how close they were to each other that day.

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And, if it did happen, it is possible neither dispatcher would notice it "right away", but immensely unlikely it wouldn't be noticed as the timestamps drifted further and further apart, until there was a five minute difference [ a difference Bowles never even hinted at].

You have no basis whatsoever to declare this “immensely unlikely”. More “common sense” in lieu of evidence?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 07:34:26 AM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2679 on: May 26, 2022, 07:32:22 AM »


 

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