Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer  (Read 130608 times)

Offline Mitch Todd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #590 on: June 16, 2018, 06:12:43 AM »
Silly question, but I'll answer it nevertheless...

I am no different as any average juror in a criminal case. Like any other juror, I don't have to be an expert on anything to make my own determination about the validity and veracity of the evidence presented to me...

Tim whined about the fact that he feels my bar is raised to high and implied that courts of law have a lower standard. He made the claim, not me... so, why not let him answer the question?

If he needs you to defend him or run interference for him, I am sure he will ask you!

You are being far too humble. Average jurors don't argue with the attorneys.

But thanks for admitting that you really don't know much about how chain of custody works in the world outside of assassination research. 


Offline Bill Brown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1059
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #591 on: June 16, 2018, 07:07:23 AM »
Not sure if this has been on the thread

   
"And this one that they missed hit him in the button. And it fell off the ambulance still in this button. And I would give a million dollars if I had never kicked that thing out."

Ambulance driver Eddie Kinsley 1978 Golz interview

Nonsense.

The bullet, with the uniform button wrapped around it, was admitted into evidence (CE-602).

At Methodist Hospital, Dr. Paul Moellenhoff removed the bullet from Tippit's body with a pair of hemostats in the presence of Dallas police officer Robert Davenport.

Davenport put a mark on the bullet and later positively identified it as the one removed from Tippit's body by Dr. Moellenhoff.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 07:12:16 AM by Bill Brown »

Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3364
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #592 on: June 16, 2018, 01:39:51 PM »

You are being far too humble. Average jurors don't argue with the attorneys.

But thanks for admitting that you really don't know much about how chain of custody works in the world outside of assassination research.


You are being far too humble. Average jurors don't argue with the attorneys.

Another silly comment. Is this a courtroom and is Tim an attorney? I don't think so?.

But thanks for admitting that you really don't know much about how chain of custody works in the world outside of assassination research.

Where precisely did I admit that? You wouldn't be making up your own reality as you go along, would you?

Not that it matters much, as this is not about me. It's about Tim's foolish claim that courts of law adhere to a lower evidentary standard than I do.... Could it be that your reading comprehension is such that you missed that?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 03:40:26 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Mitch Todd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #593 on: June 16, 2018, 04:14:42 PM »

[list of LHO arrest reporting found in the Dallas city JFK archive deleted]

Why are all the reports dated the 1st week in December?

Where are all the reports and witness affidavits from the date of LHO's arrest at the Texas Theater?

If those questions are that important to you, why don't you go and try to find out one way or the other? And why do you assume that those aren't "all of the reports and affidavits" from the LHO arrest. Honestly, it looks like you're simply trying to move the goalpost eather than make a serious point.

[/list]

Offline Matt Grantham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #594 on: June 16, 2018, 04:20:50 PM »
What Manager?
"...he ducked in as my boss went that way..."

LT Cunningham: We were questioning a young man who was sitting on the stairs in the balcony when the manager told us the suspect was on the first floor." 02 07 016   Report to Chief J. E. Curry 12/03/63 E. L. Cunningham

Detective John B. Toney
: "There was a young man sitting near the top of the stairs and we ascertained from manager on duty that this subject had been in the theater since about 12:05 PM." 02 07 043   Report to Chief J. E. Curry 12/03/63 J. B. Toney   

John A Callahan is the manager and he left for the day when the man had "ducked in"

what manager vouched for this supect?

Julie Postal
Mrs. POSTAL. No, sir; I was looking up, as I say, when the cars passed, as you know, they make a tremendous noise, and he ducked in as my boss went that way to get in his car.
Mr. BALL. Who is your boss?
Mrs. POSTAL. Mr. John A. Callahan.
Mr. BALL. Where did you say he was?
Mrs. POSTAL. Yes; I say, they bypassed each other, actually, the man ducked in this way and my employer went that-a-way, to get in his car.

The projectionist remained in the projection room during Oswald's arrest.
Neither Postal, Burroughs, nor the projectionist (the only theater employees on duty) spoke to these officers either in the balcony or on the stairs in the balcony.

Someone either identified himself as a theater "manager," or the officers mistook someone as the theater "manager," or these officers were lying about speaking to the "manager."

 And of course a logical inference would be if if there was an Oswald in the balcony this provided an alibi Certainly an odd statement since it contains two contradictions

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #595 on: June 16, 2018, 07:36:26 PM »

 A really sharp lawyer might have objected under some exclusionary rule....and had that evidence thrown out regardless of a police initial. How do we know that shell hadn't been there since 1956? 


Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #596 on: June 16, 2018, 07:39:01 PM »
Since when are you an expert on how high or low courts of law determine the bar must be?

Since I began debating with you on the issue four or five years ago.

Quote
I wasn't even aware that some sort of universal standard existed, so please enlighten me.....

Btw, Tim, I find it somewhat odd that you seem to feel that merely asking for a sound and conclusive chain of custody for a piece of evidence is somehow raising the bar "exceedingly high".

Merely asking for a sound and conclusive chain of custody for a piece of evidence is one thing. Assuming that an imperfect chain of custody will automatically preclude an item from being admitted as evidence is another thing entirely.

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #597 on: June 16, 2018, 07:44:21 PM »
That's exactly right... and those law enforcement officers (Doughty and Dhority) later both positively identified the two shells as the shells turned over to them by the Davis girls.

A proper chain of possession must be maintained from the time it is collected by law enforcement personnel to the time it appears in court.

A proper chain of possession should be maintained from the time it is collected by law enforcement personnel to the time it appears in court. However, an imperfect chain of custody will rarely, if ever, keep items like bullets, shells, guns, knives, or any other non-fungible item from being admitted into court as evidence.

Quote
These clowns can claim there is a problem with the chain of custody, but any clown can make any claim they want, no matter how hollow, unfounded and wrong the claim is.  It is another thing entirely to actually show what the chain of custody problem is.

Well said Bill. CTs do make some rather ridiculous claims. And many of them should know better. Take Bill Simpich for example. The guy is a lawyer, yet he claims that a chain of custody for CE-399 is non-existent and , as such, that bullet would be excluded at any trial. Of course, he's wrong on both accounts. Simpich states outright that Elmer Todd's marking is not on CE-399. He essentially calls Todd a liar and he does so based not on any close personal examination of CE-399 himself, but rather on low resolution photos of the bullet from the National Archives. The guy is definitely a CT clown.

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #598 on: June 16, 2018, 07:48:34 PM »
The affidavit then is accurate ...the confrontation occurred at 1:06 PM?



Do you really think it would have taken 11 minutes for the shooting of officer Tippit to be reported?

Offline Michael Chambers

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #599 on: June 16, 2018, 08:39:09 PM »
Do you really think it would have taken 11 minutes for the shooting of officer Tippit to be reported?

wasn't it reported on Tippits police radio by bystanders within 2-3 minutes?


Edit - 4 minutes maybe?

« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 09:00:57 PM by Michael Chambers »

 

Mobile View