Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

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Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2800 on: May 25, 2022, 09:10:12 AM »
That’s because it doesn’t matter what you believe.

You don’t know that Murray and Henslee “sat at the same radio board”. Neither Cason or Henslee said that. That was just something you read into it.

Cason said:
"The way our radio is set up part of the squads are handled by this officer on one side of the board and part of the squads and the ambulances and APB, which is traffic investigators are handled by the officer on the other side of the radio board..."

The [singular] radio board.
I'm not reading anything into it, that's how English works.
Cason does not say Murray was sat at one board and Henslee was sat at another.
They were sat at the same radio board.
You might believe there's another way of interpreting what Cason said, but it doesn't matter what you believe.

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And obviously the two radio dispatcher clocks could drift apart without them being aware of it right away because Bowles said that they did.

Wrong. Bowles said the clocks "could" drift apart.
You seem to believe just because Bowles said it "could" happen, that it "did" happen.
And, if it did happen, it is possible neither dispatcher would notice it "right away", but immensely unlikely it wouldn't be noticed as the timestamps drifted further and further apart, until there was a five minute difference [ a difference Bowles never even hinted at].

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You claimed that “there are regular intervals when both dispatchers call the same timestamp”. You can’t possibly know that.

All the available evidence points to the conclusion that this is the case.
There is nothing to suggest otherwise. Is there?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 09:11:22 AM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2800 on: May 25, 2022, 09:10:12 AM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2801 on: May 25, 2022, 05:49:03 PM »
Cason said:
"The way our radio is set up part of the squads are handled by this officer on one side of the board and part of the squads and the ambulances and APB, which is traffic investigators are handled by the officer on the other side of the radio board..."

The [singular] radio board.
I'm not reading anything into it, that's how English works.
Cason does not say Murray was sat at one board and Henslee was sat at another.
They were sat at the same radio board.
You might believe there's another way of interpreting what Cason said, but it doesn't matter what you believe.

Wrong. Bowles said the clocks "could" drift apart.
You seem to believe just because Bowles said it "could" happen, that it "did" happen.
And, if it did happen, it is possible neither dispatcher would notice it "right away", but immensely unlikely it wouldn't be noticed as the timestamps drifted further and further apart, until there was a five minute difference [ a difference Bowles never even hinted at].

All the available evidence points to the conclusion that this is the case.
There is nothing to suggest otherwise. Is there?

And, if it did happen, it is possible neither dispatcher would notice it "right away", but immensely unlikely it wouldn't be noticed as the timestamps drifted further and further apart, until there was a five minute difference [ a difference Bowles never even hinted at].

The five minute difference would have been between what Bowles described as "police time" and "real time". The dispatcher would not be aware of any difference, because they had no way of knowing if and by how much their own clocks (which they related to the master clock in the room) would be behind or faster than "real time".

If there was a difference between "real time" and the master clock of two minutes and a difference of two minutes between the master clock and the clocks used by the dispatchers, you already have a difference of four minutes between "real time" and the dispatcher's clocks.

It doesn't have to be proven conclusively what the exact time difference, to the precise second, was between the dispatcher's clocks and/or time stamps and "real time". The mere possibility that Bowles basically told us that the system wasn't set up to give "real time" is enough to conclude that the time stamps called out but dispatcher can not be relied upon as being accurate.


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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2801 on: May 25, 2022, 05:49:03 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2802 on: May 26, 2022, 07:32:22 AM »
I'm not reading anything into it, that's how English works.
Cason does not say Murray was sat at one board and Henslee was sat at another.
They were sat at the same radio board.

Cason didn’t say anything about Murray or Henslee at all. Or the radio dispatchers. Regardless, she didn’t say that the people sitting at this singular board were close enough to see each other’s clocks. Or hear each other. If they could, why have separate clocks in the first place?

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Wrong. Bowles said the clocks "could" drift apart.

What do you mean “wrong”? That’s exactly what I said.

Quote
You seem to believe just because Bowles said it "could" happen, that it "did" happen.

I never said that. All I said was that we don’t know how close they were to each other that day.

Quote
And, if it did happen, it is possible neither dispatcher would notice it "right away", but immensely unlikely it wouldn't be noticed as the timestamps drifted further and further apart, until there was a five minute difference [ a difference Bowles never even hinted at].

You have no basis whatsoever to declare this “immensely unlikely”. More “common sense” in lieu of evidence?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 07:34:26 AM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2802 on: May 26, 2022, 07:32:22 AM »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2803 on: May 26, 2022, 11:48:52 AM »
And, if it did happen, it is possible neither dispatcher would notice it "right away", but immensely unlikely it wouldn't be noticed as the timestamps drifted further and further apart, until there was a five minute difference [ a difference Bowles never even hinted at].

The five minute difference would have been between what Bowles described as "police time" and "real time". The dispatcher would not be aware of any difference, because they had no way of knowing if and by how much their own clocks (which they related to the master clock in the room) would be behind or faster than "real time".

If there was a difference between "real time" and the master clock of two minutes and a difference of two minutes between the master clock and the clocks used by the dispatchers, you already have a difference of four minutes between "real time" and the dispatcher's clocks.

It doesn't have to be proven conclusively what the exact time difference, to the precise second, was between the dispatcher's clocks and/or time stamps and "real time". The mere possibility that Bowles basically told us that the system wasn't set up to give "real time" is enough to conclude that the time stamps called out but dispatcher can not be relied upon as being accurate.


The evidence I have provided and the arguments I have presented as a result of this evidence, have shown, to a very high degree of probability, that the timestamps in the dispatchers office are synchronised with events happening in Dealey Plaza, specifically the time given on the Hertz clock (corroborated by the testimonies of Powers and Greer).
As such, there is no need to refer to the master clock or "real" time (whatever that means).

"If there was a difference between "real time" and the master clock of two minutes and a difference of two minutes between the master clock and the clocks used by the dispatchers, you already have a difference of four minutes between "real time" and the dispatcher's clocks."

Because I have focused on synchronising the dispatchers timestamps with "Dealey" time the above argument is no longer relevant. The only way for a five minute discrepancy to occur is for the dispatcher's clock for channel 1 to drift 5 minutes away from the moment of 12:30pm, synchronised with "Dealey" time.
For the Tippit shooting to have occurred around 1;10pm that would require a 5 drift shift in 40 minutes (from 12:30pm to 1:10pm)
The Brewer evidence demonstrates channel 2 was still in synch with "Dealey" time around 12:39pm.

The problem I am having is that, from the testimonies of Henslee and Cason, we have a situation where Murray and Henslee are sat at the same radio board that day and, more importantly, Henslee is not only the channel 2 dispatcher, he is also supervising channel 1, meaning he is across both channels.
I find it most unlikely, given this situation, that the channel 1 dispatcher is calling out timestamps that are 5 minutes different from channel 2, and Henslee isn't noticing it.
This drift would've occurred over a period of time, getting gradually worse, so there would be plenty of time and opportunities for the discrepancy to be noticed, particularly as there are so many examples of the dispatchers calling out the same timestamp.

The only other alternative I can see is that both clocks gradually drifted away from "Dealey" time until there was a 5 minute discrepancy, but I find this scenario extremely unlikely.

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2803 on: May 26, 2022, 11:48:52 AM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2804 on: May 26, 2022, 01:47:52 PM »

The evidence I have provided and the arguments I have presented as a result of this evidence, have shown, to a very high degree of probability, that the timestamps in the dispatchers office are synchronised with events happening in Dealey Plaza, specifically the time given on the Hertz clock (corroborated by the testimonies of Powers and Greer).
As such, there is no need to refer to the master clock or "real" time (whatever that means).

"If there was a difference between "real time" and the master clock of two minutes and a difference of two minutes between the master clock and the clocks used by the dispatchers, you already have a difference of four minutes between "real time" and the dispatcher's clocks."

Because I have focused on synchronising the dispatchers timestamps with "Dealey" time the above argument is no longer relevant. The only way for a five minute discrepancy to occur is for the dispatcher's clock for channel 1 to drift 5 minutes away from the moment of 12:30pm, synchronised with "Dealey" time.
For the Tippit shooting to have occurred around 1;10pm that would require a 5 drift shift in 40 minutes (from 12:30pm to 1:10pm)
The Brewer evidence demonstrates channel 2 was still in synch with "Dealey" time around 12:39pm.

The problem I am having is that, from the testimonies of Henslee and Cason, we have a situation where Murray and Henslee are sat at the same radio board that day and, more importantly, Henslee is not only the channel 2 dispatcher, he is also supervising channel 1, meaning he is across both channels.
I find it most unlikely, given this situation, that the channel 1 dispatcher is calling out timestamps that are 5 minutes different from channel 2, and Henslee isn't noticing it.
This drift would've occurred over a period of time, getting gradually worse, so there would be plenty of time and opportunities for the discrepancy to be noticed, particularly as there are so many examples of the dispatchers calling out the same timestamp.

The only other alternative I can see is that both clocks gradually drifted away from "Dealey" time until there was a 5 minute discrepancy, but I find this scenario extremely unlikely.

the timestamps in the dispatchers office are synchronised with events happening in Dealey Plaza, specifically the time given on the Hertz clock (corroborated by the testimonies of Powers and Greer). As such, there is no need to refer to the master clock or "real" time (whatever that means).

Of course there is that need, as Bowles made it absolutely clear that the dispatcher's clocks were not in synch with the master clock, which in turn was not in synch with "real" time. With "real" time he clearly means actual standard time. Unless you can show that the Hertz clock and those of Powers and Greer were spot on in synch with "real" time, the dispatcher's time stamps being synchronised with those time pieces doesn't prove that they were in synch with real time.

This drift would've occurred over a period of time, getting gradually worse, so there would be plenty of time and opportunities for the discrepancy to be noticed, particularly as there are so many examples of the dispatchers calling out the same timestamp.

Well, they actually didn't call out any time stamp between 1:16 and 1:19. I haven't checked prior to that, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were other gaps like this as well.

The only other alternative I can see is that both clocks gradually drifted away from "Dealey" time until there was a 5 minute discrepancy, but I find this scenario extremely unlikely.

This is flawed reasoning, because you can not be sure that "Dealey" time is the same as "real" standard time.

This matter of the dispatcher's clocks being out of synch with "real" time (which is what Bowles said they were) can not be discussed in isolation. If you want to make the case that the dispatcher's clock did in fact reflect "real" time, then you also need to explain (1) how Markham could possibly still be at the corner of 10th/Patton at 1:15 (real time), when she testified she got on her regular bus, at the bus stop on Jefferson, at that time.

Markham only had to walk two blocks in about four minutes to get from her home to the bus stop on Jefferson and she did the same thing every day. She testified that she left home at about 1:06  or 1:07, which means she would have passed by 10th street some four to five minutes prior to the shooting, if that took place at 1:15! How can that be?

And then there is Bowley. He had just picked up his daughter from school and was on his way to pick up his wife from her place of work on 9th street. He must have been acutely aware of the time, as any parent picking up a child from school is. R. L. Thornton School in Singing Hills, where Bowley picked up his daughter "at about 12:55 pm", is around 7 miles or about 13 minutes away from 10th street, which, when added another two minutes, means that Bowley would have arrived at the scene at around 1:10. He said he looked at his watch which said 1:10. If he had needed another four minutes to drive the distance, he still would have arrived on time to witness the shooting, if that took place at 1:15. As he actually arrived about 2 minutes (max) after the shooting, his drive time would have been some 22 minutes for a 13 minute distance. Does that sound plausible to you?

« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 07:07:30 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2804 on: May 26, 2022, 01:47:52 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2805 on: May 26, 2022, 03:26:58 PM »
Because I have focused on synchronising the dispatchers timestamps with "Dealey" time the above argument is no longer relevant. The only way for a five minute discrepancy to occur is for the dispatcher's clock for channel 1 to drift 5 minutes away from the moment of 12:30pm, synchronised with "Dealey" time.
For the Tippit shooting to have occurred around 1;10pm that would require a 5 drift shift in 40 minutes (from 12:30pm to 1:10pm)

No, because we’re discussing what the real time was when Tippit was shot, not the “Dealey time”.

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2805 on: May 26, 2022, 03:26:58 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2806 on: May 26, 2022, 03:39:58 PM »
Well, they actually didn't call out any time stamp between 1:16 and 1:19.

And none on channel 2 between 1:12 and 1:18.

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2806 on: May 26, 2022, 03:39:58 PM »

Online Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2807 on: July 30, 2022, 05:26:27 AM »
I do not know if it has ever been linked before but below is the google map walking prompt from 1026 N Beckley to 408 E 10th [where Tippit was shot]...showing the *shortest distance at 17 minutes. I walked it years ago and it took me *18. The walk south BTW is uphill. The start time is questionably 1:00 or after---
Once again...How does the walk time + the police stop and chat w/suspect time + the confrontation time + the shooting time + the onlooker gets to the radio and calls dispatch time = 1:16? [Sixteen minutes or less]

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/1026+North+Beckley+Avenue,+Dallas,+TX/408+E+10th+St,+Dallas,+TX+75203/@32.7501084,-96.8202632,1988m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e999d1b785c03:0xf4b8e76beb3a162d!2m2!1d-96.8226033!2d32.7558212!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e9999e27dc995:0x74404ad9827de298!2m2!1d-96.8181642!2d32.7472428!3e2?hl=en

* Beckley to left on Davis to right on Patton to left on 10th

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2807 on: July 30, 2022, 05:26:27 AM »

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2808 on: July 30, 2022, 07:12:21 PM »
I do not know if it has ever been linked before but below is the google map walking prompt from 1026 N Beckley to 408 E 10th [where Tippit was shot]...showing the *shortest distance at 17 minutes. I walked it years ago and it took me *18. The walk south BTW is uphill. The start time is questionably 1:00 or after---
Once again...How does the walk time + the police stop and chat w/suspect time + the confrontation time + the shooting time + the onlooker gets to the radio and calls dispatch time = 1:16? [Sixteen minutes or less]

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/1026+North+Beckley+Avenue,+Dallas,+TX/408+E+10th+St,+Dallas,+TX+75203/@32.7501084,-96.8202632,1988m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e999d1b785c03:0xf4b8e76beb3a162d!2m2!1d-96.8226033!2d32.7558212!1m5!1m1!1s0x864e9999e27dc995:0x74404ad9827de298!2m2!1d-96.8181642!2d32.7472428!3e2?hl=en

* Beckley to left on Davis to right on Patton to left on 10th

I walked that exact route back in March of 2020 and it took me a little less than 12 minutes and 30 seconds.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 07:13:04 PM by Bill Brown »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2808 on: July 30, 2022, 07:12:21 PM »

Online Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2809 on: July 30, 2022, 08:20:51 PM »
I walked that exact route back in March of 2020 and it took me a little less than 12 minutes and 30 seconds.
I guess that is because you were in quite a hurry to go kill a cop huh? Did you have your gun with you? Was it tucked in your waistband so as to not fall out at your go-get-em speed? And knew right where to go at 4.8 miles an hour?
 
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How Long Does It Take to Walk a Mile?
Most people can expect to walk a mile in 15 to 22 minutes, according to data gathered in a 2019 study spanning five decades. The average walking pace is 2.5 to 4 mph, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Factors that affect the speed of your pace include physical fitness levels, the incline and your age.
https://www.nike.com/hr/a/how-long-does-it-take-to-walk-a-mile

That would make at the outside... normally about 17.6 minutes to hike the .8 mile suggested distance.
3 miles an hour is really setting out to walk a mile [on flat ground] in 20 minutes.
Then again..where in hell were are you headed anyway?

 

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