Lee Oswald The Cop Killer


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Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2648 on: May 19, 2022, 06:09:47 AM »
And who's to say the Hertz clock represents "real" time.

Exactly.

Besides, Curry’s announcements are on channel 2 and all of the time checks around the time of the Tippit shooting are on channel 1. Different dispatcher, different clock.

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2648 on: May 19, 2022, 06:09:47 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2649 on: May 20, 2022, 12:22:26 PM »
Exactly.

Out of my quite substantial post you pick one line:

"And who's to say the Hertz clock represents "real" time."

To which your response is - "Exactly"

"Exactly" what?
The picture I posted was taken seconds after the assassination and the Hertz clock reads 12:30pm.
The first call after the 12:30pm timestamp is also the first reference to the assassination taking place.
In his affidavit Dave Powers states the following:

I was very much concerned about our timing and at just about that point I looked at my watch and noted that it was almost exactly 12:30 p.m., Which was the time we were due at the Trade Mart. I commented to Ken O'Donnell that it was 12:30 and we would only be about five minutes late when we arrived at the Trade Mart. Shortly thereafter the first shot went off.


Bill Greer testifies as follows:

Mr. Specter: Do you recall whether he said anything else at that time?
Mr. Greer: After he had said to me, he said, "12:30," and that is all I remember him saying to me was 12:30, and he had communications with the cars but I don't remember what he had said to them.
Mr. Specter: Did he say just "12:30," or was it 12:30 used in a sentence?
Mr. Greer: He said "12:30." He looked at his watch, he said "12:30," and we were in the underpass at the time.


We have four independent sources confirming that the minute of the assassination was 12:30pm.
We have the DP "tape" time being confirmed by three independent sources of "real" time.
In terms of evidence this is more than enough for me to confidently assert that the minute [12:30:00 - 12:30:59] of the assassination was 12:30pm.
I also feel confident you will agree with this analysis.

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Besides, Curry’s announcements are on channel 2 and all of the time checks around the time of the Tippit shooting are on channel 1. Different dispatcher, different clock.

Then it is important to establish that channel 1 and channel 2 are synchronised with each other.
After the 12:44pm timestamp [channel 2], Sawyer gives the first description of the suspect. Both dispatchers immediately broadcast this description givng the same details Sawyer provided but with slightly different wording.
Both dispatchers finish their descriptions with a timestamp - 12:45pm.



Once again, I am confident you will agree this is an unequivocal example of both channels being synched together.

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2650 on: May 20, 2022, 01:05:32 PM »
"Exactly" what?

Who's to say the Hertz clock represents "real" time? We don’t know how or when it was calibrated.

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We have four independent sources confirming that the minute of the assassination was 12:30pm.

You don’t know that they’re independent. For all you know, the channel two dispatcher set his clock to match the Hertz clock that morning and that Powers looked at the Hertz clock and misremembered it at looking at his watch. Greer is hearsay.

Besides, the 4 independent sources confirming that Tippit was shot several minutes before 1:15 don’t seem to impress the WC faithful, so why would this?

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Then it is important to establish that channel 1 and channel 2 are synchronised with each other.
After the 12:44pm timestamp [channel 2], Sawyer gives the first description of the suspect. Both dispatchers immediately broadcast this description givng the same details Sawyer provided but with slightly different wording.
Both dispatchers finish their descriptions with a timestamp - 12:45pm.

Once again, I am confident you will agree this is an unequivocal example of both channels being synched together.

Not even a little bit. Just because they both announce a description doesn’t mean both did it immediately or at the same “real” time.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 01:09:02 PM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2650 on: May 20, 2022, 01:05:32 PM »


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2651 on: May 20, 2022, 01:18:41 PM »
By the way, it has been claimed elsewhere that the “attention all squads” announcement was a single announcement given by a single dispatcher over both police channels. If that’s true, then the time check only reflects a single dispatcher’s clock. But then that doesn’t explain why the wordings aren’t identical in the transcripts.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2652 on: May 20, 2022, 05:58:54 PM »
Who's to say the Hertz clock represents "real" time? We don’t know how or when it was calibrated.

What is "real" time in this instance?
What is the source that all clocks and watches should be measured against.

The best I can offer is when four independent sources confirm the time of the assassination as 12:30pm we can safely assume this is indeed "real" time.

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You don’t know that they’re independent. For all you know, the channel two dispatcher set his clock to match the Hertz clock that morning and that Powers looked at the Hertz clock and misremembered it at looking at his watch. Greer is hearsay.

I present a solid argument for synchronising the timestamp of the DP tapes with "real" time, backed up with multiple evidence and all you can do is offer up is these half-baked fantasies? It's beyond desperate.
Why not just say that I don't know if Powers, Greer and the dispatchers met up at the TSBD before everyone else was awake and all set their watches/clocks to the Hertz clock?
I can't prove that didn't happen.
Does this ridiculous fantasy cast doubt on whether these are independent sources?
Only in your mind.

The problem you have is that these four independent time "sources" corroborate each other. I am confident it's something that would be accepted as solid evidence by anyone with a grain of common sense.

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Besides, the 4 independent sources confirming that Tippit was shot several minutes before 1:15 don’t seem to impress the WC faithful, so why would this?

This argument is so weak you should be embarrassed.

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Not even a little bit. Just because they both announce a description doesn’t mean both did it immediately or at the same “real” time.

The point was about synchronising the two channels with each other.
Nothing to do with "real" time.
Both dispatchers finish their descriptions with the timestamp 12:45(pm) confirming, beyond doubt, that channels 1 and 2 are synchronised at this point.
Your misrepresentation of this point once again reflects a certain desperation on your part.
It is unequivocal that both channels are synchronised at this point.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2653 on: May 20, 2022, 06:06:56 PM »
By the way, it has been claimed elsewhere that the “attention all squads” announcement was a single announcement given by a single dispatcher over both police channels. If that’s true, then the time check only reflects a single dispatcher’s clock.

You, of all people, coming up with a phrase like "it has been claimed elsewhere".

Cite please

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But then that doesn’t explain why the wordings aren’t identical in the transcripts.

Maybe you shouldn't bother with the cite as you've immediately gone on to destroy the doubt you were desperately trying to cast.
The reason the wording of each call is completely different is because it's two different dispatchers.
Anyone with a grain of common sense can see that.

What was the point of your post  ::)

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2653 on: May 20, 2022, 06:06:56 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2654 on: May 20, 2022, 08:13:59 PM »
What is "real" time in this instance?
What is the source that all clocks and watches should be measured against.

The best I can offer is when four independent sources confirm the time of the assassination as 12:30pm we can safely assume this is indeed "real" time.

I present a solid argument for synchronising the timestamp of the DP tapes with "real" time, backed up with multiple evidence and all you can do is offer up is these half-baked fantasies? It's beyond desperate.
Why not just say that I don't know if Powers, Greer and the dispatchers met up at the TSBD before everyone else was awake and all set their watches/clocks to the Hertz clock?
I can't prove that didn't happen.
Does this ridiculous fantasy cast doubt on whether these are independent sources?
Only in your mind.

The problem you have is that these four independent time "sources" corroborate each other. I am confident it's something that would be accepted as solid evidence by anyone with a grain of common sense.

This argument is so weak you should be embarrassed.

The point was about synchronising the two channels with each other.
Nothing to do with "real" time.
Both dispatchers finish their descriptions with the timestamp 12:45(pm) confirming, beyond doubt, that channels 1 and 2 are synchronised at this point.
Your misrepresentation of this point once again reflects a certain desperation on your part.
It is unequivocal that both channels are synchronised at this point.

Someone who lived in Dallas has said that a large percentage of Dallasites used the clock on top of the TSBD to check their wrist watches each day as they drove to work.    That seems like a very real possibility ......

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2655 on: May 20, 2022, 09:29:58 PM »
What is "real" time in this instance?

Real time in this context would be the precise time according to the USNO master clock or its equivalent.

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The best I can offer is when four independent sources confirm the time of the assassination as 12:30pm we can safely assume this is indeed "real" time.

Agreed that this is the best you can offer, but it doesn't demonstrate that they are actually independent.  Or correct.

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I present a solid argument for synchronising the timestamp of the DP tapes with "real" time, backed up with multiple evidence and all you can do is offer up is these half-baked fantasies? It's beyond desperate.

You think all of your arguments are solid.  I agree that the Hertz clock visible in the McIntyre photo appears to show 12:30 when the motorcade is going through the underpass.  What we don't know is how accurate the Hertz clock was.

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Why not just say that I don't know if Powers, Greer and the dispatchers met up at the TSBD before everyone else was awake and all set their watches/clocks to the Hertz clock?
I can't prove that didn't happen.
Does this ridiculous fantasy cast doubt on whether these are independent sources?
Only in your mind.

You don't know what you don't know.

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The problem you have is that these four independent time "sources" corroborate each other.

That's not a "problem" for me.  I'm not attached to any particular outcome  -- I just expect truth claims to be proven.  At best, you can assert that the Hertz clock is close to what the channel 2 dispatcher announced the time as on the extant recordings (assuming they are authentic and haven't been edited in the relevant timeframe).  But that doesn't tell you that these times are correct.  Or that they are any help with determining the actual time of the Tippit shooting.

I too applaud your efforts to look for a way to reliably synchronize the dispatcher time announcements.  I just don't think you have found one yet that doesn't depend on handwaving.

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I am confident it's something that would be accepted as solid evidence by anyone with a grain of common sense.

"Common sense" is what people appeal to when they don't have evidence.

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This argument is so weak you should be embarrassed.

It's not an argument, but it does point out how much special pleading goes on here.  Do you accept the "four independent sources" argument of people's memories about what their watches said as solid evidence of accuracy or not?

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The point was about synchronising the two channels with each other.
Nothing to do with "real" time.
Both dispatchers finish their descriptions with the timestamp 12:45(pm) confirming, beyond doubt, that channels 1 and 2 are synchronised at this point.

No, that doesn't confirm a damn thing unless you can demonstrate that the two announcements occurred at the same time as each other.

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Your misrepresentation of this point once again reflects a certain desperation on your part.

What misrepresentation?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 09:43:26 PM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2655 on: May 20, 2022, 09:29:58 PM »


 

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