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Author Topic: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer  (Read 131417 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1610 on: October 23, 2019, 09:03:22 PM »
Thanks Gary,  Although the 3 X 5 card isn't specifically mentioned , the writer does say " The evidence was turned over to Drain about midnight  Friday, November, 22, 1963. "  And that 3 X 5 card was listed on the evidence inventory list.

There is absolutely no evidence that the document in question was an evidence list of items turned over to the FBI on 11/22 or that it was even written on 11/22.  Or even that CE637 is a 3x5 card.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 09:05:34 PM by John Iacoletti »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1611 on: October 23, 2019, 09:10:59 PM »
Thanks for the pointer.  So Bowles derives his "approximate to the second" timestamps only during the period of time that the motorcycle radio mic was stuck on (thus causing the sound-activated channel 1 recorder to record continuously) buy arbitrarily assigning the exact time of 12:29:10 p.m. (Channel 1 time) to the beginning of the stuck-mic episode.  Unfortunately this doesn't help us determine anything about the time period surrounding Tippit's shooting.

Bowles also gives a number of caveats:

     "It is, however, important to remember that

     1. No exact record of "time" exists;
     2. The several clocks were not synchronized;
     3. The radio operators were not exact with regard to "time statements" on either radio;
     4. The recordings were continuous only on Channel 1, and only while the mike was stuck open;
     5. For an accurate, although derived, time reference point, 12:29:10 (Channel 1), the time the mike stuck open, will be developed and used in this text."

Two quotes from the same page: http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles1.html#set

A master clock on the telephone room wall was connected to the City Hall system. This clock reported "official" time. Within the dispatcher's office there were numerous other time giving and time recording devices, both in the telephone room and in the radio room. Telephone operators and radio operators were furnished "Simplex" clocks. Because the hands often worked loose, they indicated the incorrect time. However, their purpose was to stamp the time, day and date on incoming calls. While they were reliable at this, they were not synchronized as stated in the Committee report. Therefore, it was not uncommon for the time stamped on calls to be a minute to two ahead or behind the "official" time shown on the master clock. Accordingly, at "exactly" 10:10, various clocks could be stamping from 10:08 to 10:12, for example. When clocks were as much as a minute or so out of synchronization it was normal procedure to make the needed adjustments. During busy periods this was not readily done.

There is no way to connect "police time" with "real time." The Committee Report stated that the Dallas Police Communications system was recorded by continuously operating recorders. That statement is incorrect. Channel 1 was recorded on a Dictaphone A2TC, Model 5, belt or loop recorder. Channel 2 was recorded on a Gray "Audograph" flat disk recorder. Both were duplex units with one recording and one on standby for when the other unit contained a full recording. Both units were sound activated. It is important to note "sound" rather than "voice" because either sound or noise from any source, received through the transmission line, would activate the recorders. Once activated, the recorders remained "on" for the duration of the activating sound plus 4 seconds. The four second delay permitted brief pauses or answers to questions without the relay mechanism being overworked. On occasion, the recorders would operate almost continuously because rapid radio traffic kept them operating. On November 22, 1963, the Channel 1 recorders became, for practical purposes, continuous recorders for just over five minutes starting at approximately 12:29 pm (Channel 1 time) because the microphone on a police motorcycle stuck in the "on" position. The resulting continuous transmission kept the Channel 1 recorders operating for just over five minutes thus giving us a real-time recording for that period. The only problem was determining a basis for an accurate time reference during that period.

Spoken time stamps that could be two minutes ahead or behind the "official" time, recorded on voice activated devices do not provide a solid basis for preparing accurate transcripts.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 03:09:23 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1612 on: October 23, 2019, 09:36:21 PM »

How would you know?

By noting the stated times and the duration of messages in the minutes preceding the incident of the open microphone, I have, for practical purposes, fixed the time for the start of the five-minute open mike episode at 12:29:10 p.m. (Channel 1 time). Time statements broadcast later confirm this as a rational assumption. (See PART II, CHAPTER FIVE for technical details demonstrating this confirmation.) Since it is important to have a zero-base from which one might project future time points, a decision was necessary. In using the start of the five-minute interval, and 12:29:10 (Channel 1) as the zero-base, with subsequent time factored thereon, "time" would at least be constant if not absolutely accurate. If not absolutely accurate, time statements cannot be more than a second or two off. The reader is encouraged to reach an independent decision based on the transcriptions of the radio transmissions contained in the Appendix.

[From the appendix]:

As it would appear, since the Channel 2 dispatcher gave the 12:30 time and station check, "12:30 KKB364" a few seconds before Chief Curry's broadcast, "We're going to the hospital . . . ", the assassin's shots were fired either just before or immediately after 12:30 p.m. (Channel 2). However, that would be an inaccurate assumption.
There is a simple way to determine more accurately the approximate time the 12:30 station check was actually given.

Actually, the 12:30 station check was given more nearly at 12:31:16 (Channel 2).

If the clocks used by the dispatchers were more than a minute or two off of official time, then his time and station check at 12:30 would have been off accordingly. It wasn’t.

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1613 on: October 23, 2019, 09:45:31 PM »
Two quotes from the same page: http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles1.html#set

A master clock on the telephone room wall was connected to the City Hall system. This clock reported "official" time. Within the dispatcher's office there were numerous other time giving and time recording devices, both in the telephone room and in the radio room. Telephone operators and radio operators were furnished "Simplex" clocks. Because the hands often worked loose, they indicated the incorrect time. However, their purpose was to stamp the time, day and date on incoming calls. While they were reliable at this, they were not synchronized as stated in the Committee report. Therefore, it was not uncommon for the time stamped on calls to be a minute to two ahead or behind the "official" time shown on the master clock. Accordingly, at "exactly" 10:10, various clocks could be stamping from 10:08 to 10:12, for example. When clocks were as much as a minute or so out of synchronization it was normal procedure to make the needed adjustments. During busy periods this was not readily done.

There is no way to connect "police time" with "real time." The Committee Report stated that the Dallas Police Communications system was recorded by continuously operating recorders. That statement is incorrect. Channel 1 was recorded on a Dictaphone A2TC, Model 5, belt or loop recorder. Channel 2 was recorded on a Gray "Audograph" flat disk recorder. Both were duplex units with one recording and one on standby for when the other unit contained a full recording. Both units were sound activated. It is important to note "sound" rather than "voice" because either sound or noise from any source, received through the transmission line, would activate the recorders. Once activated, the recorders remained "on" for the duration of the activating sound plus 4 seconds. The four second delay permitted brief pauses or answers to questions without the relay mechanism being overworked. On occasion, the recorders would operate almost continuously because rapid radio traffic kept them operating. On November 22, 1963, the Channel 1 recorders became, for practical purposes, continuous recorders for just over five minutes starting at approximately 12:29 pm (Channel 1 time) because the microphone on a police motorcycle stuck in the "on" position. The resulting continuous transmission kept the Channel 1 recorders operating for just over five minutes thus giving us a real-time recording for that period. The only problem was determining a basis for an accurate time reference during that period.

Spoken time stamps that could be two minutes ahead or behind the "official" time, recorded on voice activated devices do not provide a solid basis for preparing accurate transcripts.

]A master clock on the telephone room wall was connected to the City Hall system. This clock reported "official" time.

Official time that affected the entire city government, including the mayor’s office, etc. Do you really believe that the city would not frequently sync their official time with the rest of the world?!

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1614 on: October 23, 2019, 09:54:01 PM »
As it would appear, since the Channel 2 dispatcher gave the 12:30 time and station check, "12:30 KKB364" a few seconds before Chief Curry's broadcast, "We're going to the hospital . . . ", the assassin's shots were fired either just before or immediately after 12:30 p.m. (Channel 2). However, that would be an inaccurate assumption.
There is a simple way to determine more accurately the approximate time the 12:30 station check was actually given.

Actually, the 12:30 station check was given more nearly at 12:31:16 (Channel 2).

But only based on his arbitrarily chosen "zero-base" time.

Quote
If the clocks used by the dispatchers were more than a minute or two off of official time, then his time and station check at 12:30 would have been off accordingly. It wasn’t.

But the whole point is, we don't know if, how, or when any of these clocks were calibrated to "official time", only that they were synchronized with each other if they got "at least two minutes or more out of synchronization of each other".
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 09:56:20 PM by John Iacoletti »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1615 on: October 23, 2019, 09:55:44 PM »
Official time that affected the entire city government, including the mayor’s office, etc. Do you really believe that the city would not frequently sync their official time with the rest of the world?!

I believe that this is an assumption, and not based on anything that Bowles or anybody else stated.

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1616 on: October 23, 2019, 09:56:27 PM »
But only based on his arbitrarily chosen "zero-base" time.

But the whole point is, we don't know if, how, or when any of these clocks were calibrated to "official time", only that they were synchronized with each other
if they got "at least two minutes or more out of synchronization of each other".

Again:
If the clocks used by the dispatchers were more than a minute or two off of official time, then his time and station check at 12:30 would have been off accordingly. It wasn’t.

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1617 on: October 23, 2019, 10:02:19 PM »
I believe that this is an assumption, and not based on anything that Bowles or anybody else stated.

Again:

A master clock on the telephone room wall was connected to the City Hall system. This clock reported "official" time.


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1618 on: October 23, 2019, 10:06:34 PM »
]A master clock on the telephone room wall was connected to the City Hall system. This clock reported "official" time.

Official time that affected the entire city government, including the mayor’s office, etc. Do you really believe that the city would not frequently sync their official time with the rest of the world?!

Nobody suggested they didn't. But, as usual, your reply fails to address the obvious point being made about the reliability of the voice activated recordings and the transcripts derived thereof when it comes down to determining the exact time an event took place.

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1619 on: October 23, 2019, 10:13:35 PM »
Nobody suggested they didn't. But, as usual, your reply fails to address the obvious point being made about the reliability of the voice activated recordings and the transcripts derived thereof when it comes down to determining the exact time an event took place.

Do you believe that the clocks magically got off between the 12:30 time check and the time of Tippit’s shooting?

 

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