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Author Topic: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo  (Read 61749 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #88 on: August 28, 2018, 10:26:18 PM »
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Some here think their opponents require Trek's time-travel wrap-holes in order to "prove" things. :D

Some people think that all that's necessary to prove that something happened is that somebody said so.

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #88 on: August 28, 2018, 10:26:18 PM »


Online Royell Storing

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #89 on: August 28, 2018, 10:53:54 PM »
Some here think their opponents require Trek's time-travel wrap-holes in order to "prove" things. :D

           Jerry - "Live Long and Prosper".

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #90 on: August 29, 2018, 02:50:03 AM »
And that is supposed to prove what, exactly?

I can't solve your reading comprehension issues.

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #90 on: August 29, 2018, 02:50:03 AM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #91 on: August 29, 2018, 05:53:12 AM »
Frazier
"I am a special agent assigned to the FBI laboratory, the firearms identification unit in Washington, D.C., where I make examinations of bullets, cartridges, gunpowder tests, bullet holes, examinations of clothing, and other similar types of examinations."

'Special Agent" Hardly an unbiased investigator.  :D

Explain that, and read this:

Special Agent
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_agent
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 06:02:54 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Allan Fritzke

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #92 on: August 29, 2018, 06:06:09 AM »
The Warren Commission (WC) said Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) fired three shots from BEHIND the limousine that carried President John F. Kennedy (JFK) in it, and that these were the ONLY shots fired that day. Period. That is why there has been much discussion regarding what quite a few witnesses saw on November 22, 1963, when they viewed the limousine up close at Parkland Hospital (PH). They saw a bullet hole in the limousine?s windshield which was a through-and-through hole, which means it had to be fired from the FRONT of the limousine since the WC could NOT account for a shot in the three shot scenario that could have done this damage.

Let?s look at this issue in more detail in this post.


***********************************************

After arriving at PH the Presidential limousine was parked  in front of the hospital for a short while in order to have JFK removed from it and taken inside. Also, it appears something was done to the limousine as we see some men with a bucket next to the car and after several witnesses commented on the hole in the windshield the limousine was driven away.

Richard Dudman - reporter for the St. Louis Dispatch - wrote in an article entitled "Commentary of an Eyewitness" that appeared in the "New Republic" on December, 21, 1963, which stated: "A few of us NOTICED the hole in the windshield when the limousine was standing at the emergency entrance after the President had been carried inside.  I could not approach close enough to see which side was the cup-shaped spot that indicates a bullet has PIERCED the glass from the opposite side." (Emphasis mine)  Dudman went on to say he and other reporters were SHOVED away by Secret Service (SS) agents when they tried to examine the hole to determine from which direction the bullet had been fired from. (Mark Lane, Amherst speech, 1964)

Dudman will receive corroboration from others in this matter. Two Dallas Police Department (DPD) police officers will see a hole in the presidential limousine as well. Sergeant Starvis Ellis will say he saw a hole in the windshield of the limousine when he saw the limousine at PH. Ellis would tell interviewer Gil Toff in 1971: ?There was a hole in the left front windshield?You could put a pencil through it?you could take a regular standard writing pencil?and stick [it] through there.? Ellis said a SS agent tried to persuade him that it was a ?fragment? and not a hole, but Ellis remained adamant and said, ?It wasn?t a damn fragment. It was a HOLE.? (David Lifton, Best Evidence, 1980)

He would tell researcher Vincent Palamara the following in a letter.


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Yes, I did see a hole in the limousine windshield at Parkland Hospital. I did not see the bone fragment. That officer on the escort with me said there was one fragment, approximately six or seven inches around. (Starvis Ellis letter to Vince Palamara, 9/8/98)

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Ellis? partner was H.R. Freeman and he said, "I was right beside it.  I could of [sic] touched it.  It was a bullet hole.  You could tell what it was.? (David Lifton, Best Evidence, 1980) This gives us two police officers and a reporter so far saying they saw a bullet hole in the windshield.

Another witness to this incident was Dr. Evalea Glanges and she was a second year medical student at Southwestern Hospital, which was right next to PH. When she heard of the shooting she knew the President would be taken to PH so she ventured out there for a look.  She wound up standing RIGHT NEXT TO THE LIMOUSINE!  She leaned against the fender and looked at the windshield up close and saw a HOLE in it.  Looking from her outside position she noted it "was a real clean hole? and told this to researcher Douglas Weldon many years later. Mr. Weldon had this interview taped and it was included in the The Men Who Killed Kennedy (TMWKK) episode seven titled ?The Smoking Guns.? This is the episode that was pretty much banned due to pressure. In the interview she said the following to Mr. Weldon.


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?it [bullet hole in windshield] was very clear, it was a through-and-through bullet hole through the windshield of the car, from the front to the back?it seemed like a high-velocity bullet that had penetrated from front-to-back in that glass pane.

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Dr. Glanges was not alone when she noticed this hole in the windshield, but her friend would not discuss this issue  (or allow Dr. Glanges to say their name) when she met with Douglas Weldon in 1999!  She was very afraid of speaking about what she saw and perhaps Dr. Glanges should have been too as Dr. Glanges would die in February 1999 after meeting with Weldon in January 1999 for an interview about the hole. Glanges told Weldon that she talked about the hole in a loud voice at PH, this caused someone to get into the car and speed away with it. Glanges said it happened so fast they "almost took my arm off." She said she knew the official story was "phony", and that she should "keep her mouth shut", but with retirement on the horizon and so many years gone by I guess she thought it was safe. What was odd about her sudden demise was that she had told him about a vacation she was taking in a month, and did NOT mention any serious illnesses so the fact she was dead that fast after the interview has to make the normal person believe she had seen something she should not have seen.

Another witness to this hole was SS Agent Charles Taylor, Jr., who noted the following in a report he wrote on November 27, 1963.


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Mr. Orin Bartlett drove the Presidential vehicle out of the bin.  The team of FBI Agents, assisted by the Secret Service Agents on duty, removed the leatherette convertible top and the plexi-glass bubbletop; also the molding strips that secure the floor matting, and the rear seat.  What appeared to be bullet fragments were removed from the windshield and the floor rug in the rear of the car.

In addition, of particular note was the small hole just to the left of center in the windshield from which what appeared to be bullet fragments were removed.

http://jfkthefrontshot.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-entrance-hole-in-windshield.html

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Whatever happened to these bullet fragments taken from the windshield? They are not part of the evidence we have to use currently. He also mentions the small hole in the windshield. Of course Agent Taylor would be forced to recant this report as a hole in the windshield did NOT support the official conclusion.

Another witness was George Whitaker who was a senior manager Ford Motor Company?s Rouge Plant in Detroit, Michigan. He would tell Mr. Weldon in a taped interview that on November 25, 1963, he saw the presidential limousine (a unique, one-of-a-kind automobile) in building B of the Rogue Plant when he reported for work. He said the interior had been stripped out and the windshield had been removed as well. Let?s pick up the interview as seen in TMWKK episode seven in this quote.


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He was then contacted by one of the Vice Presidents of the division for which he worked, and directed to report to the glass plant lab, immediately. After knocking on the locked door (which he found most unusual), he was let in by two of his subordinates and discovered that they were in possession of the windshield that had been removed from the JFK limousine. They had been told to use it as a template, and to make a new windshield identical to it in shape ? and to then get the new windshield back to the B building for installation in the Presidential limousine that was quickly being rebuilt. Whitaker told Weldon (quoting from the audiotape of the 1993 interview): "And the windshield had a bullet hole in it, coming from the outside through...it was a good, clean bullet hole, right straight through, from the front. And you can tell, when the bullet hits the windshield, like when you hit a rock or something, what happens? The back chips out and the front may just have a pinhole in it...this had a clean round hole in the front and fragmentation coming out the back." Whitaker told Weldon that he eventually became superintendent of his division and was placed in charge of five plant divisions. He also told Weldon that the original windshield, with the bullet hole in it, had been broken up and scrapped ? as ordered ? after the new windshield had been made.

When Doug Weldon interviewed Whitaker in August of 1993, his witness insisted on anonymity. Weldon reported on the story without releasing Whitaker's name in his excellent and comprehensive article titled: "The Kennedy Limousine: Dallas 1963," which was published in Jim Fetzer's anthology Murder in Dealey Plaza, in 2000. After Weldon interviewed Whitaker in August of 1993, Mr. Whitaker subsequently ? on November 22, 1993 (the 30th anniversary of President Kennedy's assassination) ? wrote down all he could remember about the events he witnessed involving the Presidential limousine and its windshield. After George Whitaker's death in 2001, his family released his written testament to Nigel Turner, who with their permission revealed Mr. Whitaker's name, as well as the text of his "memo for history," in episode 7 of The Men Who Killed Kennedy, "The Smoking Guns."

http://jfkthefrontshot.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-entrance-hole-in-windshield.html

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Further confirmation of the frontal shot comes from SS Agent Roy Kellerman (although he probably was referring to the first replacement windshield) when he testified before the WC about what he felt on the windshield.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to feel the outside of the windshield?

Mr. KELLERMAN. I did on that day [November 27]; yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you feel, if anything?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Not a thing; it was real smooth.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to feel the inside of the windshield?

Mr. KELLERMAN. I did.

Mr. SPECTER. How did that feel to you?

Mr. KELLERMAN. My comparison was that the broken glass, broken windshield, there was enough little roughness in there from the cracks and split that I was positive, or it was my belief, that whatever hit it came into the inside of the car.

Safety glass show damage on the OTHER SIDE of impact, thus, the fact it was smoothed on the outside and rough on the inside shows a frontal shot hit it (albeit this was the first false new windshield). Since it was probably not the original windshield that was on the limousine on November 22, 1963, this shows even in this area the conspirators were not very competent as they created a new windshield that showed it was hit from the front. This would lead to a second replacement that showed a shot from the back hit it.

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Researcher Robert P. Smith (as reported by David Lifton in Best Evidence) interviewed a Mr. Bill Ashby, crew leader at the Arlington Glass Company, who told Smith he removed the limousine?s windshield in Washington, D.C. on November 27th; this occurred after Roy Kellerman had felt the interior surface earlier that day and determined it to be damaged on the inside, and smooth on the outside.

But the windshield at the National Archives today exhibits long cracks ? not a through-and-through bullet hole ? and is damaged on the outside, which is the opposite of what Kellerman noted by physical examination on November 27th.

Co-owner Willard Hess of the automotive firm Hess and Eisenhardt in Cincinnati, Ohio told Doug Weldon that his company also replaced the windshield in the Presidential limousine, and that the glass removed was standard safety glass ? consistent with what George Whitaker said his team reinstalled in the limousine in Detroit, immediately after the assassination. Hess and Eisenhardt replaced the standard safety glass with special bullet resistant glass made by the Pittsburgh Plate Glass Company. (Presumably, the windshield removed by Hess and Eisenhardt was the second new windshield installed ? by the Arlington Glass Company ? on November 27th, 1963, and is the one in the National Archives today.) Mr. Hess told Weldon that the windshield his company removed was not damaged at the time it was removed.

The clear implication here is that the windshield in the Archives today, which exhibits cracks but not a bullet hole, was intentionally damaged by someone involved in the cover-up AFTER its removal by Hess and Eisenhardt.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/06/douglas-p-horne/photographic-evidence-of-bullet-hole-in-jfk-limousine-windshield-hiding-in-plain-sight/

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We see that the windshield was replaced yet again on November 27, 1963, after Roy Kellerman had felt it and that is the current one in the National Archives. Why would this be necessary if the original had either NO hole in it or did NOT reflect a shot from the front? Another disturbing incident occurred outside of PH on November 22, 1963, as well.

Sergeant Ellis said he saw a SS agent take the camera away from a small boy and expose the film to the sun after he had taken a few photographs of the limousine outside of PH. Why would the SS act like bullies with a small boy and take the undeveloped film out of his camera if there was NO hole in the windshield and other damage seen on the limousine that differed with the official conclusion? Ellis? account of this event was corroborated by another DPD officer, James W. Courson, so it is NOT just Ellis's word for it.

Finally, in Douglas Horne?s look at this issue we see he studied the film in the DVD version of the TMWKK episode seven and wrote about what he saw.


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The Stunning Content of ?The Smoking Guns?

This ?B-roll? footage appears between the times of 14:02 and 14:04 on the DVD, and consists of a total of 84 video frames (there are 30 video frames per second in a U.S. television broadcast). The black-and-white images appear to come from standard 16 mm B & W newsreel footage, taken by a stocky man wearing a hat who had approached the Presidential limousine as it was parked outside the Parkland Hospital emergency room (and before the bubble top was installed). The point of view (POV) of the camera was that of someone sitting in the limousine, or rather standing just beside it and to the right side. The camera is pointed at the inside surface of the windshield from behind ? that is the POV. One man in a suit and tie can be seen standing on the front side, or forward of, the windshield, and two DPD motorcycle patrolmen (are they Ellis and Freeman?) can be seen leaning in and examining the windshield. What looks to me like a through-and-through bullet hole is visible in all 84 video frames, left of center on the windshield (adopting the POV of the camera) and approximately halfway down from the top, although these are only rough approximations. The location appears to be entirely consistent with that described by Charles Taylor and George Whitaker (above).

I wish to make something very clear here: you cannot access the images I am describing above in the U-Tube segment in which this episode has been put up on the internet. First, the timing is different in the U-Tube segment (13:08, vice 14:02), because the U-Tube segment was copied from the broadcast. [The factory DVD location of the clip is at a later point in the program, at 14:02, because of advertising material inserted at the beginning of the DVD.] Second, the size of the U-Tube presentation is so small on one?s computer screen, and the resolution so poor in comparison with a big screen HD television, that you can forget seeing this windshield bullet hole on U-Tube. The viewer needs the factory-produced DVD; a good DVD player with functioning frame-by-frame advance; and a big screen, High Definition (1080p) TV. The bullet hole shows up clearly on my 52″ SONY Bravia television. So anyone concerned with doing research here simply must obtain the factory-produced DVD.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/06/douglas-p-horne/photographic-evidence-of-bullet-hole-in-jfk-limousine-windshield-hiding-in-plain-sight/

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Dr. Horne also gives great advice regarding the WC defenders too.

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Now, no doubt the ?lone-nutter? crowd ? both those who are in denial of the reality of an American coup in 1963 (because they can?t handle the truth), and the U.S. government?s third-party surrogates in the midst of the research community (whose job it is to cast doubt on all new research pointing to conspiracy and cover-up) ? will react violently to this essay, and that is predictable. But you don?t have to listen to their opinions?EXAMINE THE EVIDENCE YOURSELF AND MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND.

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He is exactly right, don?t listen to anyone?examine the evidence for yourself. It is clear that a conspiracy occurred and that is why the WC defenders don?t want to discuss it very often.

Here is a link to Mr. Weldon?s very good article on this issue:


http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=226698

I think we see again there is an abundance of evidence that show the official conclusion of the WC is incorrect, and thus, it is sunk by the evidence.
I think you summed it up fairly accurately!!   Now you have to go one step further and figure out who could have passed in front of the car at the very instant that this hole formed!    Altgens remained stationary throughout this period -  however you can see a man in the Zapruder film "roll" in the grass alongside of him.   So many have tried to say years later that this was Malcom Summers - I beg to differ as he was not there!   This man appeared to be in motion and coming across the front of the limousine. 

I have 2 or 3 people that I believe where the shooters.   I am not sure if the man coming across the front did the final 2 shots or just the one and the other one came from the guy on the steps on the grassy knoll.   The neck shot/1st shot appears to me to come from the person standing on the island on the driver's side.  Why?   Because the hand goes from being stretched out in a clap and then goes behind the back fairly promptly.   The motion coincides with President reaching for his neck.  Who is that person and the one standing right behind him/her?   
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg

Next we see President's move back in his seat and drop his arm at frame Z-323, just after light aberration at Z-322.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z322.jpg

Then we see major light aberration in windshield at z330.   Which certainly looks like glass splinters being picked up by Zapruder's Camera.
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z330.jpg

https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z331.jpg

Then we get to see the man who looks to be responsible for this deed!  Everyone else around him is motionless - he is NOT!!
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z346.jpg

I don't have an image for the 3rd guy, but he is doing the sidestep on the grassy knoll steps which appears to be a "lead in move" to get timing right while lining up for a shot .   That can be seen in the Muchmore Film. His right hand was stretched out and then retracted. The guy behind him remains motionless while the other starts to take off at a run - very strange reaction by all 3, all so different which makes it bizarre!

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #92 on: August 29, 2018, 06:06:09 AM »


Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #93 on: August 29, 2018, 06:27:38 AM »
I can't solve your reading comprehension issues.

So you agree then that what you posted has no meaning.

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2018, 01:38:12 AM »
So you agree then that what you posted has no meaning.

You wish. It was clear to everyone who doesn't have a reading comprehension issue like you.

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2018, 01:38:12 AM »


Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #95 on: August 30, 2018, 06:07:25 PM »
You wish. It was clear to everyone who doesn't have a reading comprehension issue like you.

Okay then.  Explain it to me.

What are you trying to say by posting the portion of Kellerman's testimony (below)?

Kellerman did not see the tiny shell fragments in the limo as the limo was speeding to Parkland.  So what?

Cool, where can I find the photos showing the bullet fragments in place?

Is a lack of photos showing the fragments in place supposed to prove that the fragments truly were not found inside the limo?

Mr. SPECTER. And did you ever observe any bullet fragments in the car at rest after the shooting?

Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 06:09:13 PM by Bill Brown »