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Author Topic: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.  (Read 47845 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.
« Reply #144 on: October 28, 2019, 12:48:52 AM »
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The facts and evidence in this case have been well established for many decades and the fact that you are still trying to argue otherwise 55 years later just proves my point. Thanks for your participation.

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Thanks for your participation.

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Re: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.
« Reply #144 on: October 28, 2019, 12:48:52 AM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.
« Reply #145 on: October 28, 2019, 12:53:09 AM »
The April advertisment had not even been published at that time, so why is Klein's sending a 40" rifle to a client who ordered a 36" rifle?

Also, Klein’s was still advertising a 36” rifle as late as November, 1963 in Field and Stream.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.
« Reply #146 on: October 28, 2019, 01:14:20 AM »
If Kleins themselves differentiated between different Carcano models then they would have used two catalogue numbers but both the 36inch and the 40inch models had the exact same catalogue number.
Department 358 is not a specific department within Kleins but is merely a way of tracking where the ads are coming from, Kleins received Oswald's order and gave him the C20-T550 rifles that they had in stock, it's not rocket science!

JohnM

JM copy and pasted due to a formatting error.


JohnM
Weidmann
JohnM

If Kleins themselves differentiated between different Carcano models then they would have used two catalogue numbers

Pure speculation, you have no clue what Klein's would or would not have done.

We know exactly what they did because they advertised the same catalogue number for two rifles.

but both the 36inch and the 40inch models had the exact same catalogue number.

That may be the case, but the coupons from the February and April issues of A.R.M. had different department numbers, which is how they differentiated!

Every Kleins ad in every magazine had a different Dept number which would be a logistical nightmare to cross reference every order with every Dept number and then that is multiplied by all the different products and their slight differences in each ad. That makes absolutely no sense, the catalogue number is what they use to find items in the factory, if Kleins gave a stuff about a "5.5 pound" rifle they would have given a different catalogue number for the 36 inch model and the 40 inch model but they just lumped them together in the same group.

Department 358 is not a specific department within Kleins but is merely a way of tracking where the ads are coming from

Exactly, that's how Waldman knew it came from the February issue of A.R.M.....

Yes.

and that's how they knew which rifle they needed to send.

No, adding an unnecessary step in the order process is a waste of time, the catalogue number defines the item.

Kleins received Oswald's order and gave him the C20-T550 rifles that they had in stock, it's not rocket science!

Indeed... it's not rocket science, it's idiotic. You don't send a 40" rifle, which was not even advertised yet, to a client who ordered a 36".

As I said above if Kleins gave a stuff about a 13 dollar second hand war surplus rifle then they would have given both models different catalogue numbers but they didn't, there is nothing to argue, you can say what you believe that should have done but it was their business and they conducted it their way, sorry but that's business.
And btw why would anybody complain about receiving more rifle for the same price?, only a desperate CT.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.
« Reply #146 on: October 28, 2019, 01:14:20 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.
« Reply #147 on: October 28, 2019, 01:20:14 AM »
What you keep leaving out is that the alleged Klein’s order wasn’t made in April either.

So what, the stock was received in February and the Kleins warehouse just filled out Oswald's order according to their catalogue number(C20-T750)



JohnM

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.
« Reply #148 on: October 28, 2019, 02:00:57 AM »

JohnM
Weidmann
JohnM

If Kleins themselves differentiated between different Carcano models then they would have used two catalogue numbers

Pure speculation, you have no clue what Klein's would or would not have done.

We know exactly what they did because they advertised the same catalogue number for two rifles.



My remark was not about what "we know", but what you claimed they would have done if they wanted to differentiate between two rifles. That was pure speculation!

Quote

but both the 36inch and the 40inch models had the exact same catalogue number.

That may be the case, but the coupons from the February and April issues of A.R.M. had different department numbers, which is how they differentiated!

Every Kleins ad in every magazine had a different Dept number which would be a logistical nightmare to cross reference every order with every Dept number and then that is multiplied by all the different products and their slight differences in each ad. That makes absolutely no sense, the catalogue number is what they use to find items in the factory, if Kleins gave a stuff about a "5.5 pound" rifle they would have given a different catalogue number for the 36 inch model and the 40 inch model but they just lumped them together in the same group.


Every Kleins ad in every magazine had a different Dept number which would be a logistical nightmare to cross reference every order with every Dept number and then that is multiplied by all the different products and their slight differences in each ad.

That's only your opinion. The fact of the matter is that Klein's did use different department number for each advert as a way of telling where the coupon came from and thus which rifle was ordered.

Quote

That makes absolutely no sense, the catalogue number is what they use to find items in the factory,

Nevertheless, that's what they did, regardless if it makes sense to you or not. If it wasn't why would the use those department numbers at all?

if Kleins gave a stuff about a "5.5 pound" rifle they would have given a different catalogue number for the 36 inch model and the 40 inch model but they just lumped them together in the same group.

Again, pure speculation..... If not for pin pointing the exact rifle ordered, what was the purpose of the entire department system?

Quote

Department 358 is not a specific department within Kleins but is merely a way of tracking where the ads are coming from

Exactly, that's how Waldman knew it came from the February issue of A.R.M.....

Yes.

and that's how they knew which rifle they needed to send.

No, adding an unnecessary step in the order process is a waste of time, the catalogue number defines the item.


No, adding an unnecessary step in the order process is a waste of time, the catalogue number defines the item.

It's only an unnecessary step to you and no the catalogue number doesn't define the item, because - a we know - two different items (advertised in different magazines) had the same catalogie number, making your point invalid.

It's the department number on the order coupon that makes each item unique and identifiable!

Quote

Kleins received Oswald's order and gave him the C20-T550 rifles that they had in stock, it's not rocket science!

Indeed... it's not rocket science, it's idiotic. You don't send a 40" rifle, which was not even advertised yet, to a client who ordered a 36".

As I said above if Kleins gave a stuff about a 13 dollar second hand war surplus rifle then they would have given both models different catalogue numbers but they didn't, there is nothing to argue, you can say what you believe that should have done but it was their business and they conducted it their way, sorry but that's business.

As I said above if Kleins gave a stuff about a 13 dollar second hand war surplus rifle then they would have given both models different catalogue numbers but they didn't, there is nothing to argue, you can say what you believe that should have done but it was their business and they conducted it their way, sorry but that's business.

This is hilarious. First you, once again, say that Klein's would have used different catalogue numbers (which you have no way of knowing) and then you complain about what I "believe that should have been done" when in fact all I have stated is that Klein's conducted their business in such a way that they used the Department number on the order form to determine which article was ordered!

The stupidity of your argument is amazing. Did you ever think about the possibility that a client ordered a 40" without a scope and received a 36" with a scope? Using only the article number and not the department number would make something like that equally possible, right? Do you really think Klein's would want to be known as a company that sends clients the wrong articles simply because they have the same article number?

Quote

And btw why would anybody complain about receiving more rifle for the same price?, only a desperate CT.[/u]

Totally beside the point.


« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 02:07:00 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.
« Reply #148 on: October 28, 2019, 02:00:57 AM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.
« Reply #149 on: October 28, 2019, 02:13:47 AM »
So what, the stock was received in February and the Kleins warehouse just filled out Oswald's order according to their catalogue number(C20-T750)



JohnM

Now you'll have to provide a never-ending list of witnesses with film of the warehouse guy actually signing the order... on film, of course. Then do entire background stories of each individual, including Genealogy Man doing a complete, never ending search connecting everybody on the planet to some sort of conspiracy.. except Oswald of course.

@Lurkers:

Five Stupid Things About JFK Conspiracy Theories
-Steve Shives


« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 02:25:41 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.
« Reply #150 on: October 28, 2019, 02:43:56 AM »


My remark was not about what "we know", but what you claimed they would have done if they wanted to differentiate between two rifles. That was pure speculation!

Every Kleins ad in every magazine had a different Dept number which would be a logistical nightmare to cross reference every order with every Dept number and then that is multiplied by all the different products and their slight differences in each ad.

That's only your opinion. The fact of the matter is that Klein's did use different department number for each advert as a way of telling where the coupon came from and thus which rifle was ordered.

Again, pure speculation..... If not for pin pointing the exact rifle ordered, what was the purpose of the entire department system?

No, adding an unnecessary step in the order process is a waste of time, the catalogue number defines the item.

It's only an unnecessary step to you and no the catalogue number doesn't define the item, because - a we know - two different items (advertised in different magazines) had the same catalogie number, making your point invalid.

It's the department number on the order coupon that makes each item unique and identifiable!

As I said above if Kleins gave a stuff about a 13 dollar second hand war surplus rifle then they would have given both models different catalogue numbers but they didn't, there is nothing to argue, you can say what you believe that should have done but it was their business and they conducted it their way, sorry but that's business.

This is hilarious. First you, once again, say that Klein's would have used different catalogue numbers (which you have no way of knowing) and then you complain about what I "believe that should have been done" when in fact all I have stated is that Klein's conducted their business in such a way that they used the Department number on the order form to determine which article was ordered!

The stupidity of your argument is amazing. Did you ever think about the possibility that a client ordered a 40" without a scope and received a 36" with a scope? Using only the article number and not the department number would make something like that equally possible, right? Do you really think Klein's would want to be known as a company that sends clients the wrong articles simply because they have the same article number?

Totally beside the point.

Sorry Martin but the following Feb/Apr Kleins ads shows that they used the same catalogue number for the Carcano and that's it, we don't need to second guess because the evidence was printed in thousands of magazines across America.



JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.
« Reply #150 on: October 28, 2019, 02:43:56 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Oswald's lies proves his guilt.
« Reply #151 on: October 28, 2019, 02:57:09 AM »
Now you'll have to provide a never-ending list of witnesses with film of the warehouse guy actually signing the order... on film, of course. Then do entire background stories of each individual, including Genealogy Man doing a complete, never ending search connecting everybody on the planet to some sort of conspiracy.. except Oswald of course.

@Lurkers:

Five Stupid Things About JFK Conspiracy Theories
-Steve Shives


Thanks Bill, these CT's are mostly just a bunch of angry old men who have failed at life and are now desperately clinging to some sort of demented Conspiracy religion.
It's ironic that Iacoletti argues against religion but fully embraces some unknown entity and worships at the feet of Oswald.



JohnM