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Author Topic: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence  (Read 3617 times)

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #70 on: May 11, 2018, 10:25:04 PM »
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 I am a little unclear on the last paragraph The WC is just asserting that the man was half sitting and ignoring the discrepancy while still ascribing the complete significance of a reliable ID of Oswald? Sounds about right

LBJ's Special Select Cover Up committee (aka The Warren Commission) knew full well that Howard Brennan was a key witness who had to be discredited...and those of you who sneer at Howard Brennan are playing right into the WC hands, just as they planned.

Howard Brennan had gave a a sworn affidavit about an hour after the coup d e'tat and in that affidavit he reported that the man he had seen with a "HIGH POWERED RIFLE"  ( aka hunting rifle) not an old military rifle, and the man was dressed in light colored khaki clothing.   Lee Oswald didn't even own any light colored khaki clothing.....and he certainly didn't own a big game hunting rifle.   

On that basis alone LBJ's cover up committe needed to discredut Howard Brennan....but in addition to Brennan describing a man who clearly was NOT Lee Oswald ...He also described the man as STANDING and aiming the hunting rifle ( He thought it could have been a 30-30 Winchester) out of a window that could NOT have been the SE corner window.....because that SE window was not open far enought tp allow a man to stand behind it and aim a rifle down onto Elm street.   

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #70 on: May 11, 2018, 10:25:04 PM »


Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #71 on: May 11, 2018, 10:36:14 PM »
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 I am a little unclear on the last paragraph The WC is just asserting that the man was half sitting and ignoring the discrepancy while still ascribing the complete significance of a reliable ID of Oswald? Sounds about right

The WC NEEDED someone, anyone, to ID the gunman as LHO. Hence the critical importance of Brennan. So, if he was EVENTUALLY able to make a positive ID, when Lee was stone cold dead, it meant the WC was able to bypass every issue of the found evidence. In their thinking, Lee was the assassin, and hence he brought in CE 139 in CE 142, fired the weapon, then ran down the NW stairwell and ended up in the second floor lunch room. What was the problem? No one saw Lee do any of those things.
Brennan saw somone stick a rifle out the window. He didn't even see the rifle discharge.
His description of the gunman would of fitted half the men in Dallas. At least he told the truth at the line up. Then, the back peddling commenced.

Shameful.

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2018, 10:51:28 PM »
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Simply disgraceful. I believe his book was published after he passed away so it is difficult to determine if he actually wrote that or a ghost writer.

Just have a read of DVP's review of his book

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Keep in mind the difference in the way the WC treated Brennan in comparison to Rowland.

If Rowland was able to ID the gunman as LHO he would have been THE star witness for the WC. We all know how it ended up.

LOL, DVP exaggerates almost as much as Brennan!

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2018, 11:47:25 PM »
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The WC NEEDED someone, anyone, to ID the gunman as LHO. Hence the critical importance of Brennan. So, if he was EVENTUALLY able to make a positive ID, when Lee was stone cold dead, it meant the WC was able to bypass every issue of the found evidence. In their thinking, Lee was the assassin, and hence he brought in CE 139 in CE 142, fired the weapon, then ran down the NW stairwell and ended up in the second floor lunch room. What was the problem? No one saw Lee do any of those things.
Brennan saw somone stick a rifle out the window. He didn't even see the rifle discharge.
His description of the gunman would of fitted half the men in Dallas. At least he told the truth at the line up. Then, the back peddling commenced.

Shameful.

The WC NEEDED someone, anyone, to ID the gunman as LHO. Hence the critical importance of Brennan. So, if he was EVENTUALLY able to make a positive ID, when Lee was stone cold dead,

Initially Brennan REFUSED to cooperate with the DPD when they insisted that it was Lee Oswald that he saw with a rifle behind a TSBD window.  But after the DPD warned him ( threatened)  that he had been seen on TV and his name and address given and therefore the commies who were part of Lee Oswald's band of commies might harm his family if he didn't keep his mouth shut....and it would be prudent for him to ID Lee Oswald and keep him in jail.  Then Brennan saw Lee oswald shot to death while being escorted by the very cops who he had informed that the man with the rifle that he saw was NOT present in the line up....that's when Brennan came to realize that he and his family  were in serious danger....

Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2018, 11:51:42 PM »
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LOL, DVP exaggerates almost as much as Brennan!

When a CTer does the same - it is called "cherry picking", when a LNer does it, it is called "enhancement"  ;D

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2018, 11:51:42 PM »


Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2018, 12:05:43 AM »
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The WC NEEDED someone, anyone, to ID the gunman as LHO. Hence the critical importance of Brennan. So, if he was EVENTUALLY able to make a positive ID, when Lee was stone cold dead,

Initially Brennan REFUSED to cooperate with the DPD when they insisted that it was Lee Oswald that he saw with a rifle behind a TSBD window.  But after the DPD warned him ( threatened)  that he had been seen on TV and his name and address given and therefore the commies who were part of Lee Oswald's band of commies might harm his family if he didn't keep his mouth shut....and it would be prudent for him to ID Lee Oswald and keep him in jail.  Then Brennan saw Lee oswald shot to death while being escorted by the very cops who he had informed that the man with the rifle that he saw was NOT present in the line up....that's when Brennan came to realize that he and his family  were in serious danger....

Walt,

Howard was in a terrible position - damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

However, once committed, he had to carry the consequences. Did he seriously think a "Commie Conspiracy" was suddenly going to disappear once Lee was murdered in front of ~70 Law enforcement Officers on National TV?

I actually feel very sorry for him.

"Brennan, however, turned out to be unreliable and unhelpful. He claimed that the gunman had been standing up when firing, although the half– open window required any gunman to have crouched or kneeled. He claimed to have seen the gunman’s trousers, which would not have been visible from Brennan’s viewpoint on the street 60 feet or 18 metres below. When asked whether he had actually seen the firing of the rifle, he replied, “No.” He claimed that on hearing the first shot, “I looked up at the building. I then saw this man I have described in the window and he was taking aim with a high powered rifle. I could see all of the barrel of the gun.” Brennan’s reaction to the first shot is visible on the Zapruder film: standing directly opposite the sixth– floor window, he watches Kennedy’s car go past him to his left, then from about frame 204 he in fact turns his head sharply to his right, away from the TSBD, rather than up toward the sixth floor. He attended a line– up on the day of the assassination, but “said he was unable to make a positive identification,” despite already having seen Oswald’s picture on television. A few weeks later, his memory improved and he informed the FBI that he could identify Oswald. The next month, he changed his mind again and “appeared to revert to his earlier inability to make a positive identification.” In the absence of any other plausible candidates, the Commission nominated Brennan as the source of the Dallas police radio despatcher’s description of the gunman, but his limited credibility as a witness raises uncomfortable questions about the actual source. The House Select Committee on Assassinations declined to use Howard Brennan’s testimony. 18

Bojczuk, Jeremy. 22 November 1963: A Brief Guide to the JFK Assassination (Kindle Locations 422-435). Boxgrove Publishing. Kindle Edition.

What did the WR say?

Although the record indicates that Brennan was an accurate observer, he declined to make a positive identification of Oswald when he first saw him in the police lineup. 286 The Commission, therefore, does not base its conclusion concerning the identity of the assassin on Brennan's subsequent certain identification of Lee Harvey Oswald as the man he saw fire the rifle. Immediately after the assassination, however, Brennan described to the police the man he saw in the window and then identified Oswald as the person who most nearly resembled the man he saw. The Commission is satisfied that, at the least, Brennan saw a man in the window who closely resembled Lee Harvey Oswald, and that Brennan believes the man he saw was in fact Lee Harvey Oswald.

Commission, Warren; House Select Committee on Assassinations; Assassination Records Review Board; U.S. Government. Complete Guide to the 1963 JFK Assassination: The Full Text of Three Major Reports - Warren Commission, House Select Committee, and the Assassination Records Review Board - President John F. Kennedy (Kindle Locations 2690-2695). Progressive Management. Kindle Edition.

Maybe Brennan saw Michael Paine?  ;D



or this guy?

« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 12:35:42 AM by Tony Fratini »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2018, 12:57:20 AM »
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Walt,

Howard was in a terrible position - damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

However, once committed, he had to carry the consequences. Did he seriously think a "Commie Conspiracy" was suddenly going to disappear once Lee was murdered in front of ~70 Law enforcement Officers on National TV?

I actually feel very sorry for him.

"Brennan, however, turned out to be unreliable and unhelpful. He claimed that the gunman had been standing up when firing, although the half– open window required any gunman to have crouched or kneeled. He claimed to have seen the gunman’s trousers, which would not have been visible from Brennan’s viewpoint on the street 60 feet or 18 metres below. When asked whether he had actually seen the firing of the rifle, he replied, “No.” He claimed that on hearing the first shot, “I looked up at the building. I then saw this man I have described in the window and he was taking aim with a high powered rifle. I could see all of the barrel of the gun.” Brennan’s reaction to the first shot is visible on the Zapruder film: standing directly opposite the sixth– floor window, he watches Kennedy’s car go past him to his left, then from about frame 204 he in fact turns his head sharply to his right, away from the TSBD, rather than up toward the sixth floor. He attended a line– up on the day of the assassination, but “said he was unable to make a positive identification,” despite already having seen Oswald’s picture on television. A few weeks later, his memory improved and he informed the FBI that he could identify Oswald. The next month, he changed his mind again and “appeared to revert to his earlier inability to make a positive identification.” In the absence of any other plausible candidates, the Commission nominated Brennan as the source of the Dallas police radio despatcher’s description of the gunman, but his limited credibility as a witness raises uncomfortable questions about the actual source. The House Select Committee on Assassinations declined to use Howard Brennan’s testimony. 18

Bojczuk, Jeremy. 22 November 1963: A Brief Guide to the JFK Assassination (Kindle Locations 422-435). Boxgrove Publishing. Kindle Edition.

Thank you for taking the time to write and present your views.....It makes it a bit easier to debate and discuss your views.

I actually feel very sorry for him.

At one time I too felt sorry for Brennan...... But I no longer pity him because he capitulated to the authorities and decided to fatten his banlkaccount by allowing his name as the author for a book that is a pack of lies.

"Brennan, however, turned out to be unreliable and unhelpful.

Not if you adhere to his sworn affidavit for 11/22/63...... That affidavit is the truth.......

 He claimed that the gunman had been standing up when firing, although the half– open window required any gunman to have crouched or kneeled.

Brennan was NOT referring to the half open window at the SE corner....  and he clarified that he saw the man behind that SE window BEFORE the motorcade arrived.

He claimed to have seen the gunman’s trousers, which would not have been visible from Brennan’s viewpoint on the street 60 feet or 18 metres below.

Brennan saw the man in the light colored khaki clothing on several occasions BEFORE the motorcade arrived....and he saw him STANDING behind a window during the shooting  So who knows at what pint he saw the mans trousers.  However He DID see them and reported that the trousers were nearly white....Lee's trousers were dark gray.

When asked whether he had actually seen the firing of the rifle, he replied, “No.” He claimed that on hearing the first shot, “I looked up at the building. I then saw this man I have described in the window and he was taking aim with a high powered rifle. I could see all of the barrel of the gun.”

I believe that trying to pinpoint things like the actual firing of the rifle are beyond debating....Who could remember exactly what happened at a precise moment during the event??  It not reasonable.   Brennan simply didn't know if he saw the rifle being fired...he said that he saw the man "aiming"   It's very common for a rifleman to use the rifle scope as a aid for observing something in the distance....  and I suspect that is what Brennan witnessed.


Brennan’s reaction to the first shot is visible on the Zapruder film: standing directly opposite the sixth– floor window, he watches Kennedy’s car go past him to his left, then from about frame 204 he in fact turns his head sharply to his right, away from the TSBD, rather than up toward the sixth floor.

Tony we're talking about mere seconds .......I doubt that anybody could pinpoint the exact second that something happened..... incidentally .....I doubt the Z film is accurate.   It's tainted....

He attended a line– up on the day of the assassination, but “said he was unable to make a positive identification,” despite already having seen Oswald’s picture on television.

That's correct as far as it goes.....   But the confrontation with the DPD was far more than a simple inability to be able to identify Lee Oswald as the man in the window....  Brennan told them that Lee Oswald WAS NOT the man.....(Brennan knew that before he went to the line up because he'd seen Lee on TV and knew that lee was not the man that he'd seen.)   The police tried to twist his arm and threaten him into putting the finger on Lee but he refused....The police became frustrated and wanted to know how he could be so certain that Lee wasn't the man and Brennan told them he knew that Lee was not the man because the man was dressed differently than Lee Oswald.   He said the man that he saw was wearing light colored khaki clothing but definitely not a suit.  The cops then told Brennan that Lee had gone home and changed his clothes...which was true ...but what the cops didn' ell Brennan was the fact that the clothes they had recovered wer NOT ligh colored khaki clothes.

A few weeks later, his memory improved and he informed the FBI that he could identify Oswald.

Yes that's true.....Funny how something like seeing the man that Brennan knew was being railroaded being shot down in cold blood while being escorted by the very men who he had argued with about the identity of the TSBD gunman....can cause an honest man to change his mind.


The next month, he changed his mind again and “appeared to revert to his earlier inability to make a positive identification.” In the absence of any other plausible candidates, the Commission nominated Brennan as the source of the Dallas police radio despatcher’s description of the gunman, but his limited credibility as a witness raises uncomfortable questions about the actual source. The House Select Committee on Assassinations declined to use Howard Brennan’s testimony. 18

Offline Ross Lidell

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2018, 11:43:53 PM »
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Please, Ross.  These people either saw a man firing a rifle or they did not.  Why do you need to embellish the evidence to make your arguments?

Brennan said very specifically that he did not see the rifle discharge.

That's lying with vague statistics.  Two words:  Squeaky Fromme.

No, you're making claims that aren't true and trying to rationalize it with rhetoric -- which is pretty much par for the entire case against Oswald.

Still with the hair-splitting John!!!

You reveal a lack of "an honest search for the truth" in your absurd ripostes. There is a difference between a description that does not fit your idea of accuracy and intentionally making a deceitful statement.

Brennan said very specifically that he did not see the rifle discharge.

Brennan saw a man shooting. He provided a description to law enforcement in Dealey Plaza.

That's lying with vague statistics.  Two words:  Squeaky Fromme.


My statement about people assuming that an assassin would most likely be a man mentioned women circa 1963. The evil Ms Fromme attempted to assassinate President Gerald Ford in 1975--more than a decade later than '63. Really John: you must be more accurate in your statements or people will accuse you of lying.

The fact is: Howard Brennan, Amos Euins and Bob Jackson saw "someone" shooting a rifle from an upper floor of the TSBD.

-- Brennan described a man.
-- Euins thought it was man.
-- Jackson would have assumed it was man*.

* All previous assassins (and those whom attempted assassinations) of US Presidents were men. Assassinating US President's was a "man" thing.

Man-up John and admit you are wrong.

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2018, 11:43:53 PM »


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #78 on: May 14, 2018, 11:28:37 PM »
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Brennan told them that Lee Oswald WAS NOT the man.....(Brennan knew that before he went to the line up because he'd seen Lee on TV and knew that lee was not the man that he'd seen.)   The police tried to twist his arm and threaten him into putting the finger on Lee but he refused....The police became frustrated and wanted to know how he could be so certain that Lee wasn't the man and Brennan told them he knew that Lee was not the man because the man was dressed differently than Lee Oswald.   He said the man that he saw was wearing light colored khaki clothing but definitely not a suit.  The cops then told Brennan that Lee had gone home and changed his clothes...which was true ...but what the cops didn' ell Brennan was the fact that the clothes they had recovered wer NOT ligh colored khaki clothes.

Cool story, bro.


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2018, 11:36:57 PM »
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Still with the hair-splitting John!!!

You reveal a lack of "an honest search for the truth" in your absurd ripostes. There is a difference between a description that does not fit your idea of accuracy and intentionally making a deceitful statement.

Brennan said very specifically that he did not see the rifle discharge.

Brennan saw a man shooting. He provided a description to law enforcement in Dealey Plaza.

No he didn't.  He said he saw a man taking aim with a rifle.  Even that much is doubtful, but if he didn't see a rifle discharge, he didn't see a man shooting.

Quote
My statement about people assuming that an assassin would most likely be a man mentioned women circa 1963.
The evil Ms Fromme attempted to assassinate President Gerald Ford in 1975--more than a decade later than '63. Really John: you must be more accurate in your statements or people will accuse you of lying.

Do you have some actual data that shows that people would assume in 1963 that an assassin would most likely be a man, or did you just pull that out of your azz?  It doesn't matter anyway.  Jackson either saw a man shooting a rifle or he did not.

And he did not.

Mr. JACKSON - Right here approximately. And as we heard the first shot, I believe it was Tom Dillard from the Dallas News who made some remark as to that sounding like a firecracker, and it could have been somebody else who said that. But someone else did speak up and make that comment and before he actually the sentence we heard the other two shots. Then we realized or we thought it was gunfire, and then we could not at that point see the President's car. We were still moving slowly, and after the third shot the second two shots seemed much closer together than the first shot, than they were to the first shot. Then after the last shot, I guess all of us were just looking all around and I just looked straight up ahead of me which would have been looking at the School Book Depository and I noticed two Negro men in a window straining to see directly above them, and my eyes followed right on up to the window above them and I saw the rifle, or what looked like a rifle approximately half of weapon, I guess I saw. and just looked at it, it was drawn fairly slowly back into the building, and I saw no one in the window with it. I didn't even see a form in the window.

You're wrong, Ross. Admit it.

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2018, 11:36:57 PM »