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Author Topic: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence  (Read 3618 times)

Online Matt Grantham

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2018, 10:15:02 PM »
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Do you now understand ?

 Walt Yes thank you I assume close comparisons were done on the original police photo of what they called a Mauser and no expert has been able to prove it was such a Mauser?

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2018, 10:15:02 PM »


Offline Ross Lidell

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2018, 11:56:10 PM »
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It's not splitting hairs.  You claimed that "several witnesses saw a man firing a rifle from the TSBD".  That's just flat out false.

John,

Pleeeease! Rifles don't fire themselves. The witnesses who saw the rifle had just heard gunshots.

-- Howard Brennan saw the shooter firing the rifle. Whether or not he could accurately describe the appearance of the shooter is immaterial... in this debate.

-- Amos Euins saw the rifle which he assumed was fired by a person (likely a man).

-- Bob Jackson saw the rifle which he assumed was fired by a person (likely a man).

Why likely a man? Previous assassins of US Presidents were men. In 1963: people considered women as less criminally inclined than men. Odds were: the shooter in the TSBD was a man.

You're unquestionably nitpicking, John. Why is the question?

Note: I addressed the matter of "man or woman" because I anticipated more hair-splitting from you. Something like: "It could have been a woman shooter... you lied!!!".
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 09:39:16 AM by Ross Lidell »

Online Matt Grantham

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #62 on: May 11, 2018, 12:13:41 AM »
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John,

Pleeeease! Rifles don't fire themselves. The witnesses who saw the rifle had just heard gunshots.

-- Howard Brennan saw the shooter firing the rifle. Whether or not he could accurately describe the appearance of the shooter is immaterial--in this debate)

-- Amos Euins saw the rifle which he assumed was fired by a person (likely a man).

-- Bob Jackson saw the rifle which he assumed was fired by a person (likely a man).

Why likely a man? Previous assassins of US Presidents were men. In 1963: people considered women as less criminally inclined than men. Odds were: the shooter in the TSBD was a man.

You're unquestionably nitpicking, John. Why is the question?

Note: I addressed the matter of "man or woman" because I anticipated more hair-splitting from you. Something like: "It could have been a woman shooter... you lied!!!".

 Maybe it is just me but if I see a gun in a window I don't take my eyes off of him

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #63 on: May 11, 2018, 01:04:34 AM »
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John,

Pleeeease! Rifles don't fire themselves. The witnesses who saw the rifle had just heard gunshots.

Please, Ross.  These people either saw a man firing a rifle or they did not.  Why do you need to embellish the evidence to make your arguments?

Quote
-- Howard Brennan saw the shooter firing the rifle. Whether or not he could accurately describe the appearance of the shooter is immaterial... in this debate)

Brennan said very specifically that he did not see the rifle discharge.

Quote
Why likely a man? Previous assassins of US Presidents were men. In 1963: people considered women as less criminally inclined than men. Odds were: the shooter in the TSBD was a man.

That's lying with vague statistics.  Two words:  Squeaky Fromme.

Quote
You're unquestionably nitpicking, John. Why is the question?

No, you're making claims that aren't true and trying to rationalize it with rhetoric -- which is pretty much par for the entire case against Oswald.

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #64 on: May 11, 2018, 01:05:56 AM »
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Maybe it is just me but if I see a gun in a window I don't take my eyes off of him

Brennan somehow managed to see the shooter fire the rifle and see JFK's head explode nearly simultaneously.

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #64 on: May 11, 2018, 01:05:56 AM »


Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #65 on: May 11, 2018, 03:08:53 AM »
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Brennan somehow managed to see the shooter fire the rifle and see JFK's head explode nearly simultaneously.

Brennan didn't see the Presidential Limousine down Elm street from where he was sitting when the firing took place.

VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS
Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22 day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Howard Leslie Brennan, Address 6814 Woodard, Dallas, Texas Age 44 , Phone No. EV 1-2713
Deposes and says:

"I was looking at the man in this windows at the time of the last explosion."

WC testimony

Mr. DULLES. Could you see who or what he was aiming at? You testified as to the declination of the rifle, the angle of the rifle. But could you see what he was firing at?
Mr. BRENNAN. Subconsciously I knew what he was firing at. But immediately I looked towards where President Kennedy's car should be, and there was something obstructing my view. I could not see the President or his car at that time.
And I still don't know what was obstructing my view, because I was high enough that I should have been able to see it. I could not see it.



Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #66 on: May 11, 2018, 03:47:00 PM »
The Warren Commission’s Case Against Oswald
By Leo Sauvage
The New Leader, 22 November 1965, pages 16–21

"...Howard L. Brennan—one of the Commission’s star witnesses, along with Marina Oswald and Helen
 Markham—was presented as an apparent discovery of the Commission.

Yet Brennan’s statements had appeared in the press from the start of the investigation in Dallas.

Nobody at that time took him seriously, and it was necessary to await the Warren Report to learn
that “Howard L. Brennan made a positive identification of Oswald as being the person at the window.”

Leafing back in the Report to the chapter on “The Assassin,” and its section titled “Eyewitness
Identification of Assassin,” we learn that “Brennan testified that the man in the window was standing
when he fired the shots,” while the Report is obliged to recognize that “the half-open window, the
arrangement of the boxes, and the angle of the shots virtually preclude a standing position.”

The conclusion of the Commission is that Brennan was mistaken in saying that the man was standing,
but not mistaken in identifying (from the sidewalk opposite the building) the man sitting behind a
half-open sixth-floor window..."


Online Matt Grantham

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2018, 04:08:17 PM »
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The Warren Commission’s Case Against Oswald
By Leo Sauvage
The New Leader, 22 November 1965, pages 16–21

"...Howard L. Brennan—one of the Commission’s star witnesses, along with Marina Oswald and Helen
 Markham—was presented as an apparent discovery of the Commission.

Yet Brennan’s statements had appeared in the press from the start of the investigation in Dallas.

Nobody at that time took him seriously, and it was necessary to await the Warren Report to learn
that “Howard L. Brennan made a positive identification of Oswald as being the person at the window.”

Leafing back in the Report to the chapter on “The Assassin,” and its section titled “Eyewitness
Identification of Assassin,” we learn that “Brennan testified that the man in the window was standing
when he fired the shots,” while the Report is obliged to recognize that “the half-open window, the
arrangement of the boxes, and the angle of the shots virtually preclude a standing position.”

The conclusion of the Commission is that Brennan was mistaken in saying that the man was standing,
but not mistaken in identifying (from the sidewalk opposite the building) the man sitting behind a
half-open sixth-floor window..."



 I am a little unclear on the last paragraph The WC is just asserting that the man was half sitting and ignoring the discrepancy while still ascribing the complete significance of a reliable ID of Oswald? Sounds about right

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2018, 04:08:17 PM »


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #68 on: May 11, 2018, 06:49:47 PM »
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Mr. BRENNAN. Subconsciously I knew what he was firing at. But immediately I looked towards where President Kennedy's car should be, and there was something obstructing my view. I could not see the President or his car at that time.

By the time the serial embellisher wrote his book, that changed.

Simultaneous with the third shot, I swung my eyes back to the Presidential car which had moved on down to my left on Elm, and I saw a sight that made my whole being sink in despair. A spray of red came from around the President’s head. I knew the bullet had struck its intended target.

Another strange coincidence:  Brennan just happened to think the exact same words that John Connally said.

I saw Governor John Connally reacting to being wounded and the instinctive response of his wife to try and help him. I remember thinking, “Oh my God! He’s going to kill them, he’s going to kill them all!” The immensity and horror of what I was witnessing almost overwhelmed me. I wanted to cry, I wanted to scream, but I couldn’t utter a sound. I could only watch the whole monstrous drama unfold.

Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #69 on: May 11, 2018, 10:16:18 PM »
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By the time the serial embellisher wrote his book, that changed.

Simultaneous with the third shot, I swung my eyes back to the Presidential car which had moved on down to my left on Elm, and I saw a sight that made my whole being sink in despair. A spray of red came from around the President’s head. I knew the bullet had struck its intended target.

Another strange coincidence:  Brennan just happened to think the exact same words that John Connally said.

I saw Governor John Connally reacting to being wounded and the instinctive response of his wife to try and help him. I remember thinking, “Oh my God! He’s going to kill them, he’s going to kill them all!” The immensity and horror of what I was witnessing almost overwhelmed me. I wanted to cry, I wanted to scream, but I couldn’t utter a sound. I could only watch the whole monstrous drama unfold.

Simply disgraceful. I believe his book was published after he passed away so it is difficult to determine if he actually wrote that or a ghost writer.

Just have a read of DVP's review of his book

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Keep in mind the difference in the way the WC treated Brennan in comparison to Rowland.

If Rowland was able to ID the gunman as LHO he would have been THE star witness for the WC. We all know how it ended up.

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #69 on: May 11, 2018, 10:16:18 PM »