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Author Topic: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence  (Read 6668 times)

Online Ross Lidell

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2018, 11:56:10 PM »
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It's not splitting hairs.  You claimed that "several witnesses saw a man firing a rifle from the TSBD".  That's just flat out false.

John,

Pleeeease! Rifles don't fire themselves. The witnesses who saw the rifle had just heard gunshots.

-- Howard Brennan saw the shooter firing the rifle. Whether or not he could accurately describe the appearance of the shooter is immaterial... in this debate.

-- Amos Euins saw the rifle which he assumed was fired by a person (likely a man).

-- Bob Jackson saw the rifle which he assumed was fired by a person (likely a man).

Why likely a man? Previous assassins of US Presidents were men. In 1963: people considered women as less criminally inclined than men. Odds were: the shooter in the TSBD was a man.

You're unquestionably nitpicking, John. Why is the question?

Note: I addressed the matter of "man or woman" because I anticipated more hair-splitting from you. Something like: "It could have been a woman shooter... you lied!!!".
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 09:39:16 AM by Ross Lidell »

Online Matt Grantham

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2018, 12:13:41 AM »
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John,

Pleeeease! Rifles don't fire themselves. The witnesses who saw the rifle had just heard gunshots.

-- Howard Brennan saw the shooter firing the rifle. Whether or not he could accurately describe the appearance of the shooter is immaterial--in this debate)

-- Amos Euins saw the rifle which he assumed was fired by a person (likely a man).

-- Bob Jackson saw the rifle which he assumed was fired by a person (likely a man).

Why likely a man? Previous assassins of US Presidents were men. In 1963: people considered women as less criminally inclined than men. Odds were: the shooter in the TSBD was a man.

You're unquestionably nitpicking, John. Why is the question?

Note: I addressed the matter of "man or woman" because I anticipated more hair-splitting from you. Something like: "It could have been a woman shooter... you lied!!!".

 Maybe it is just me but if I see a gun in a window I don't take my eyes off of him

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2018, 12:13:41 AM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2018, 01:04:34 AM »
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John,

Pleeeease! Rifles don't fire themselves. The witnesses who saw the rifle had just heard gunshots.

Please, Ross.  These people either saw a man firing a rifle or they did not.  Why do you need to embellish the evidence to make your arguments?

Quote
-- Howard Brennan saw the shooter firing the rifle. Whether or not he could accurately describe the appearance of the shooter is immaterial... in this debate)

Brennan said very specifically that he did not see the rifle discharge.

Quote
Why likely a man? Previous assassins of US Presidents were men. In 1963: people considered women as less criminally inclined than men. Odds were: the shooter in the TSBD was a man.

That's lying with vague statistics.  Two words:  Squeaky Fromme.

Quote
You're unquestionably nitpicking, John. Why is the question?

No, you're making claims that aren't true and trying to rationalize it with rhetoric -- which is pretty much par for the entire case against Oswald.

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2018, 01:05:56 AM »
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Maybe it is just me but if I see a gun in a window I don't take my eyes off of him

Brennan somehow managed to see the shooter fire the rifle and see JFK's head explode nearly simultaneously.

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2018, 01:05:56 AM »

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2018, 03:47:00 PM »
The Warren Commission?s Case Against Oswald
By Leo Sauvage
The New Leader, 22 November 1965, pages 16?21

"...Howard L. Brennan?one of the Commission?s star witnesses, along with Marina Oswald and Helen
 Markham?was presented as an apparent discovery of the Commission.

Yet Brennan?s statements had appeared in the press from the start of the investigation in Dallas.

Nobody at that time took him seriously, and it was necessary to await the Warren Report to learn
that ?Howard L. Brennan made a positive identification of Oswald as being the person at the window.?

Leafing back in the Report to the chapter on ?The Assassin,? and its section titled ?Eyewitness
Identification of Assassin,? we learn that ?Brennan testified that the man in the window was standing
when he fired the shots,? while the Report is obliged to recognize that ?the half-open window, the
arrangement of the boxes, and the angle of the shots virtually preclude a standing position.?

The conclusion of the Commission is that Brennan was mistaken in saying that the man was standing,
but not mistaken in identifying (from the sidewalk opposite the building) the man sitting behind a
half-open sixth-floor window..."


Online Matt Grantham

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2018, 04:08:17 PM »
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The Warren Commission?s Case Against Oswald
By Leo Sauvage
The New Leader, 22 November 1965, pages 16?21

"...Howard L. Brennan?one of the Commission?s star witnesses, along with Marina Oswald and Helen
 Markham?was presented as an apparent discovery of the Commission.

Yet Brennan?s statements had appeared in the press from the start of the investigation in Dallas.

Nobody at that time took him seriously, and it was necessary to await the Warren Report to learn
that ?Howard L. Brennan made a positive identification of Oswald as being the person at the window.?

Leafing back in the Report to the chapter on ?The Assassin,? and its section titled ?Eyewitness
Identification of Assassin,? we learn that ?Brennan testified that the man in the window was standing
when he fired the shots,? while the Report is obliged to recognize that ?the half-open window, the
arrangement of the boxes, and the angle of the shots virtually preclude a standing position.?

The conclusion of the Commission is that Brennan was mistaken in saying that the man was standing,
but not mistaken in identifying (from the sidewalk opposite the building) the man sitting behind a
half-open sixth-floor window..."



 I am a little unclear on the last paragraph The WC is just asserting that the man was half sitting and ignoring the discrepancy while still ascribing the complete significance of a reliable ID of Oswald? Sounds about right

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2018, 04:08:17 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2018, 10:25:04 PM »
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 I am a little unclear on the last paragraph The WC is just asserting that the man was half sitting and ignoring the discrepancy while still ascribing the complete significance of a reliable ID of Oswald? Sounds about right

LBJ's Special Select Cover Up committee (aka The Warren Commission) knew full well that Howard Brennan was a key witness who had to be discredited...and those of you who sneer at Howard Brennan are playing right into the WC hands, just as they planned.

Howard Brennan had gave a a sworn affidavit about an hour after the coup d e'tat and in that affidavit he reported that the man he had seen with a "HIGH POWERED RIFLE"  ( aka hunting rifle) not an old military rifle, and the man was dressed in light colored khaki clothing.   Lee Oswald didn't even own any light colored khaki clothing.....and he certainly didn't own a big game hunting rifle.   

On that basis alone LBJ's cover up committe needed to discredut Howard Brennan....but in addition to Brennan describing a man who clearly was NOT Lee Oswald ...He also described the man as STANDING and aiming the hunting rifle ( He thought it could have been a 30-30 Winchester) out of a window that could NOT have been the SE corner window.....because that SE window was not open far enought tp allow a man to stand behind it and aim a rifle down onto Elm street.   

Online Ross Lidell

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2018, 11:43:53 PM »
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Please, Ross.  These people either saw a man firing a rifle or they did not.  Why do you need to embellish the evidence to make your arguments?

Brennan said very specifically that he did not see the rifle discharge.

That's lying with vague statistics.  Two words:  Squeaky Fromme.

No, you're making claims that aren't true and trying to rationalize it with rhetoric -- which is pretty much par for the entire case against Oswald.

Still with the hair-splitting John!!!

You reveal a lack of "an honest search for the truth" in your absurd ripostes. There is a difference between a description that does not fit your idea of accuracy and intentionally making a deceitful statement.

Brennan said very specifically that he did not see the rifle discharge.

Brennan saw a man shooting. He provided a description to law enforcement in Dealey Plaza.

That's lying with vague statistics.  Two words:  Squeaky Fromme.


My statement about people assuming that an assassin would most likely be a man mentioned women circa 1963. The evil Ms Fromme attempted to assassinate President Gerald Ford in 1975--more than a decade later than '63. Really John: you must be more accurate in your statements or people will accuse you of lying.

The fact is: Howard Brennan, Amos Euins and Bob Jackson saw "someone" shooting a rifle from an upper floor of the TSBD.

-- Brennan described a man.
-- Euins thought it was man.
-- Jackson would have assumed it was man*.

* All previous assassins (and those whom attempted assassinations) of US Presidents were men. Assassinating US President's was a "man" thing.

Man-up John and admit you are wrong.

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2018, 11:43:53 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #58 on: May 14, 2018, 11:28:37 PM »
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Brennan told them that Lee Oswald WAS NOT the man.....(Brennan knew that before he went to the line up because he'd seen Lee on TV and knew that lee was not the man that he'd seen.)   The police tried to twist his arm and threaten him into putting the finger on Lee but he refused....The police became frustrated and wanted to know how he could be so certain that Lee wasn't the man and Brennan told them he knew that Lee was not the man because the man was dressed differently than Lee Oswald.   He said the man that he saw was wearing light colored khaki clothing but definitely not a suit.  The cops then told Brennan that Lee had gone home and changed his clothes...which was true ...but what the cops didn' ell Brennan was the fact that the clothes they had recovered wer NOT ligh colored khaki clothes.

Cool story, bro.


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #59 on: May 14, 2018, 11:36:57 PM »
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Still with the hair-splitting John!!!

You reveal a lack of "an honest search for the truth" in your absurd ripostes. There is a difference between a description that does not fit your idea of accuracy and intentionally making a deceitful statement.

Brennan said very specifically that he did not see the rifle discharge.

Brennan saw a man shooting. He provided a description to law enforcement in Dealey Plaza.

No he didn't.  He said he saw a man taking aim with a rifle.  Even that much is doubtful, but if he didn't see a rifle discharge, he didn't see a man shooting.

Quote
My statement about people assuming that an assassin would most likely be a man mentioned women circa 1963.
The evil Ms Fromme attempted to assassinate President Gerald Ford in 1975--more than a decade later than '63. Really John: you must be more accurate in your statements or people will accuse you of lying.

Do you have some actual data that shows that people would assume in 1963 that an assassin would most likely be a man, or did you just pull that out of your azz?  It doesn't matter anyway.  Jackson either saw a man shooting a rifle or he did not.

And he did not.

Mr. JACKSON - Right here approximately. And as we heard the first shot, I believe it was Tom Dillard from the Dallas News who made some remark as to that sounding like a firecracker, and it could have been somebody else who said that. But someone else did speak up and make that comment and before he actually the sentence we heard the other two shots. Then we realized or we thought it was gunfire, and then we could not at that point see the President's car. We were still moving slowly, and after the third shot the second two shots seemed much closer together than the first shot, than they were to the first shot. Then after the last shot, I guess all of us were just looking all around and I just looked straight up ahead of me which would have been looking at the School Book Depository and I noticed two Negro men in a window straining to see directly above them, and my eyes followed right on up to the window above them and I saw the rifle, or what looked like a rifle approximately half of weapon, I guess I saw. and just looked at it, it was drawn fairly slowly back into the building, and I saw no one in the window with it. I didn't even see a form in the window.

You're wrong, Ross. Admit it.

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Re: Three Tests Proved Oswald's Innocence
« Reply #59 on: May 14, 2018, 11:36:57 PM »

 

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