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J.D. Tippit that CTers never knew

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Christoph Messner:
Witness Frank Wright, who lived in a ground floor apartment on 10th Street, about half a block east of the murder site:

        ďI was sitting watching television with my wife. I was sitting in a chair next to the door. I wasnít but two steps from the door. I heard shots. I knew it wasnít backfire. I knew it was shots. As soon as I heard them, I went out the door. I could see a police car in the next block. It was toward the end of the next block. I could see it clearly. The police car was headed toward me. It was parked on the south side of the street. In other words, it was parked across the street from our apartment house. I saw a person right by the car. He had fallen down. It seems as if he had just fallen down. He was on the ground, and then he turned over face down. Part of him was under the left front fender of the car. It seems to me that I saw him just as he hit the ground. I saw him turn over and he didnít move any more.
        ďI looked around to see what had happened. I knew there had been a shooting. I saw a man standing right in front of the car. He was looking toward the man on the ground. He stood there for a while and looked at the man. The man who was standing in front of him was about medium height. He had on a long coat. It ended just above his hands. I didnít see any gun. He ran around on the passenger side of the police car. He ran as fast as he could go and he got into his car. His car was a grey, little old coupe. It was about a 1950Ė1951, maybe a Plymouth. It was a grey car, parked on the same side of the street as the police car but beyond it from me. It was heading away from me. He got in that car and he drove away as quick as you could see. He drove down 10th Street, away from me. I donít know how far he drove. After he got into the middle of the next block between Patton and Crawford, I didnít look at him any more.
        ďI looked at the car where the man was. I looked to see what had happened there. About the same time as I came out, or maybe a little while after, a woman came down from her porch. She was at the house about three or four doors from the intersection of 10th and Patton. The house was on the same side of the street as the police car. Just as the man in the car pulled away she came toward the police car and then she stepped back. I heard her shout, ĎOh, heís been shot!í throwing up her hands. Then she went back toward the house. There was no one out there except me and that woman when I got there, except for the man I described earlier. I couldnít figure out who did the shooting. I didnít see a gun on the man who was standing in front of the car. There wasnít anyone else but the man who drove away and the woman who came down from her porch. I was the first person out. I knew there wasnít anyone else there at all. It wasnít any time at all until the ambulance got there. By the time the ambulance got there, there were maybe 25 more people outside. Then after a while, the police came up. I tried to tell two or three people what I saw. They didnít pay any attention. Iíve seen what came out on television and in the papers but I know thatís not what happened. I know a man drove off in a grey car. Nothing in the worldís going to change my opinion. I saw that man drive off in a grey coupe just as clear as I was born. I know what I saw The can say all they want about a fellow running away, but I canít accept this because I saw a fellow get in a car and drive away."
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Another quote from Wikipedia You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login:

Only two Commission witnesses were identified as actually having seen the shooting, Helen Markham and Domingo Benavides. Joseph Ball, senior counsel to the Commission, has referred to Markham's testimony as "full of mistakes," and characterized her as "utterly unreliable."[29] Markham made numerous false statements before the Commission, such as claiming to have been alone with Tippit's body for twenty minutes after the killing.[30]
Benavides was not taken to a police lineup. He later testified that he had told police after the killing that he did not think he could identify the assailant,[31] but he did say that the killer resembled pictures he had seen of Oswald.
Additionally, certain witnesses who did not appear before the Commission identified an assailant who was not Oswald. Both Acquilla Clemons and Frank Wright witnessed the scene from their respective homes within one block of the murder. Clemons saw two men near Tippitís car just before the shooting. After the shooting she ran outside and saw a man with a gun, whom she described as "kind of heavy". He waved to the second man, urging him to "go on".[32] Frank Wright also emerged from his home and observed the scene seconds after the shooting. He described a man standing by Tippitís body who had on a long coat, and who immediately ran to a car and left the scene.[33]
There is also evidence to indicate that the cartridge shells recovered from the scene may not have been those subsequently entered into evidence. Two of the shells recovered at the scene were given to police officer J.M. Poe. Poe testified to the Commission that he believed that he had marked the shells with his initials, although he couldnít "swear to it".[34] However, no initials were found on the shells later produced by the police.[35] Poe later told researchers that he was absolutely certain that he had marked the shells.[36] Further the appearance of cartridge shells at the crime scene raises question for some because, according to Officer Hill, who took possession of Oswald's revolver at his arrest, the gun's six chambers were fully loaded with unspent cartridges and that Oswald had no loose ammunition on his person.[37]
Jim Garrison stated in his book 'On the trail of the Assassins' that 3 of the bullets came from a side ejector pistol (due to the markings left on the casings) proven markings as per any side ejector pistol; and one came from a revolver (no ejector markings).
About Tippit's connection to the Chicago mafia policeman and most possible TSBD shooter Richard Cain I still have to study. So far I know that it is quite unlikely that these two men were unaquainted with one another. Tippit had been working security for Club 80, which was owned by Ruby maybe. In any case, if it wasn't ruby, it seems if Tippit worked one club, he'd certainly work another. Tippit did have some Chicago history. Let me find out which.

Christoph Messner:
Pretty interesting this thread "Was J.D. Tippit part of the conspiracy?" on educationforum:
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I think post #7 from Dixie Dea is most interesting:

"According to the Dallas Underground, by several reserchers.......

Tippit was most likely involved in the conspiracy and knew both Ruby and Oswald. Tippit was what is referred to, as a redneck and also a corrupt cop. Although Tippit was also a womanizer, I will leave out the possible repercussions to Tippit in this regards.

An undercover narcotics officer working for Sheriff Bill Decker, was also working as a musician in various night clubs, including Jack Ruby's. He claims that Tippit was one of the Dallas Police Officers closest to Ruby and who performed tasks for him.

Mack Pate, owner of a garage, who knew a large number of the Dallas police heard from several of them who took their cars to him, that Tippit was a "dirty cop." A friend of Tippit's own mother also confirms this.

Mack Pate's mechanic, T. F. White, who was interviewed by the FBI, spotted a car parked at the El Chico restaurant, across from their garage, just after the shooting at Dealey Plaza. White insisted the man sitting in the car was Oswald.

Mack Pate and Wes Wise checked around Oak Cliff for some time and found quite a number of people who had seen Ruby and Oswald together on many occasions during the weeks preceding the assassination. (Wes Wise later became Mayor of Dallas.)

Earl Crater of the Pig and Whistle restaurant said that LHO, Ruby and Tippit had breakfast there on a number of occasions at 7:00 A.M. Crater said that LHO never had more then a cup of coffee.

It is believed that Tippit went home for lunch on the 22nd. Then, about 12:45, 15 minutes after JFK was shot, Tippit was parked at the south end of the Houston Street Viaduct, in North Oak Cliff, facing the cars coming off the viaduct....presumably watching for someone.

Several employees of the Good Luck Gas Station saw Tippit sitting there for several minutes. Then he was observed driving away from the gas station at a high rate of speed, at about 12:50 and headed south. Tippits radio call at 12:54 places him at E. 8th and Lancaster, a few blocks south of the service station

At no time that afternoon was Tippit in his assigned district and he was always in North Oak Cliff. That district was assigned to Officer William D. Mentzel.

Tippit made a call from Top Ten Records on Jefferson, a few blocks west of 12th and Marsalis, around 1:00 P.M. When he came out, he was agitated and drove off fast. Tippits movements and actions appeared to be as though frantically looking for someone.

Tippit then, cut off a car driven by an Insurance salesman, James Andrews, who was headed west on 10th Street about eight blocks west of where Tippit would be killed. Tippit, also driving west behind the salesman's car passed him, pulled to the right in front of him, blocking him in. Tippit then rushed to the drivers side of the car and looked at the floor between the seats. Tippit apparently did not see what he was looking for, jumped back in his patrol car and drove away quickly, reversing his direction and heading back east.

The salesman who experienced this incident, James Andrews, worked for American National LIfe Insurance, which had not long before also employed Roscoe White, until he began at the Police Dept. Roscoe White and Tippit knew each other.lived near each other and their families were connected. Mrs Tippit had been a bridesmaid at Whites wedding to Geneva.

According to DPD personnel records, starting in 1956, Tippit worked security at the Stevens Park Theater, which showed both English and Spanish speaking films. The owner, Manuel Avila, was allegedly involved in prostitution, in the hispanic community and ran a well-known Latin Club. Avila had ties to anti-Castro Cubans. Before coming to Dallas, Avila had been a CBS correspondent in Mexico and was the Dallas Spanish Language Voice of America correspendent.

Dallas researcher, Prof. Bill Pulte says:

"There can be little doubt that Avila knew Ruby, given the proximity of Avila's theater to downtown Dallas, where Ruby's clubs were located plus given the mutual interest in prostitution of Avila and Ruby. Tippit worked for Avila for several years. Ralph Paul owned the Miramar Restaurant, catty-corner to Avila's theater and Tippit got to know Paul.

A good friend of Paul's was Austin Cook owner of Auston's Barbeque. This may have been how Tippit took a second part-time moonlighting job, at Austins. In addition, Ralph Paul was Ruby's backer and silent partner. The Warren Commission also raised quesations about the possibility that Tippit was involved with drugs."

Little has been mentoned or known about Tippit working for Avila. The focus has been on his moonlighting as security at Austin's Barbeque.

Tippit had a close friend, Officer Billy Anglin, and both had adjoining patrol areas which included Harendale--the sreet in East Oak Cliff where a house full of violent Cuban conspirators involved in the anti-Castro movement (SNFE/Alpha 66) and arms smuggling was located.

Anglin last saw Tippit on the morning he was killed, having had coffee at "The Old Drive-In" about 11:30-11:45. The Warren Commission never called any relative, associate or police officer who worked with Tippit to testify. Even the HSCA wondered why not!

What was Tippit doing in the section of North Oak Cliff where Ruby and Oswald both lived--not his assigned district--when most other police were concerned with the assassination and in Dealey Plaza? Oak Cliff was Tippits district, although three miles away and primarily the downtown police officers were called to Dealey Plaza. Dispatcher, Jim Bowles (later Sheriff) said that Tippit was in his assigned district. Although he didn't seem to be, he was apparently several miles from where he was supposed to be. He was ordered to move into "Central Oak Cliff" at 12:45 p.m.This order was not in the first transcript produce by the DPD and then suddenly appeared in a later transcript. This has caused many reserchers to speculate this order was later dubbed into the tape by the police friends of Tippit.

There was no reason for Tippit to be moved to that area, which was far from his assigned area. Yet it is believed he strayed over to that area many tiimes. Many witnesses say they saw Tippit in that area quite often, and in fact some thought he even lived in that area....particularly around the area where he was killed.
It is quite possible that the Cubans were directed to rent a house in Tippit's or Anglin's district to provide them with protection and a blind eye to the arms going in and out. If perhaps as some believe, Oswald was an undercover agent reporting on illegal arms to law enforcement agents or perhaps to the Dodd Committee, then Oswald would be targeted by the Cubans, if perhaps they were on to him. There is some belief that Oswald had been to the house at 3126 Harlendale too.

A group of Mexican-Americans were involved with the Cubans and acted as translators, some provided by Manuel Avila, who most probbaly knew Jack Ruby, also involved in ilegal arms sales. Avila was a honcho in the Mexican-Americamn community, and he employed J D Tippit, in a part-time security job.

Working for Avila gave Tippit knowledge of the Latin underworld and the fringe of the Cuban undergound. The Mexican-American group moved into the 3200 block of Harlendale about the same time that the Cubans moved into 3126 Harlendale.
Compiled from information in Harrison Livingstone's, The Radical Right and the Murder of John F. Kennedy....(2004)"

And post #12:

"A woman by the name of Mrs. Doris Holan, lived at 409 E Tenth Street, She lived upstairs directly across the street and her windows looked directly on Tippit's Patrol car and the murder scene.

Mrs Holan has been an unreported witness all these years. Yet she was dying of terminal cancer and talked to Dallas Researcher Michael Brownlow prior to her death in 2000. She met with Brownlow twice and once accompanied with reseracher Prof. BIll Pulte.

Mrs Holan had just returned home from her job that morning, a few minutes after 1:00, then she heard gun shots. She hurried to her window and saw Tippit's patrol car, across the street and parked in front of the driveway between 404 and 410 E. Tenth Sreet. Tippit was lying on the street, near the left front of the car. She saw a man leaving the scene, moving westward towards Patton.

Mrs Holan also noticed something else that had not previously, ever been reported. A second police car in the driveway, which went all the way back to the alley, moving forward slowly towards Tippit's car on Tenth. Near the police car she also saw a man in the driveway walking toward the street where Tippit was parked.

She went downstairs at once and over to Tippit. The man in the driveway continued to the street, walked in front of Tippit's patrol car, paused and looked down at Tippit's head, and retraced his path up the driveway. At the same time, the police car changed direction and backed up in the driveway to the alley running parallel to Tenth, behind the houses on 404 and 410.

In 1963, the driveway could be entered from the alley from the rear, as well as from Tenth. Because Tippit's car was parked in front of the Tenth Street entrance, the alley provided the only passage from the driveway for the driver of the police car.

Mrs. Holan's account of a second police car is supported by the comments of Sam Guinyard, who told Brownlow in 1970 that he saw a police car in the alley shortly after the police shooting. The man in the driveway was apparently also seen by others: a resident of the neighborhood, who wishes to remain anonymous, told Prof Pulte, in 1990, that he had heard about a man in the driveway who approached Tippit's car.

Another thought...Earlene Roberts saw a police car stop and honk in front of the boarding house on 1026 N Beckley, where LHO lived.... at around 1:03. Tippit was shot at around 1:10 to 1:15 at the latest. This could possibly have been the police car she saw."

Bill Brown:
Christoph said:  "According to the Dallas Underground, by several researchers......."

Key words there, "according to the Dallas Underground".   This is simply more hearsay, and nothing more.

Christoph Messner:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login Christoph said:  "According to the Dallas Underground, by several researchers......."
--- End quote ---
Where or when did I say that?
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login Key words there, "according to the Dallas Underground".   This is simply more hearsay, and nothing more.

--- End quote ---
How do you know, that it is nothing more?

Mrs. Kilgallen's reporting brought her into contact with Mark Lane who had himself received an amazing story from the journalist Thayer Waldo. He had discovered that Jack Ruby, J. D. Tippet and Bernard Weismann had a meeting at the Carousel Club eight days before the assassination. Waldo, who worked for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, was too scared to publish the story. He had other information about the assassination. However, he believed that if he told Lane or Kilgallen he would be killed. Kilgallen's article on the Tippit, Ruby and Weissman meeting appeared on the front page of the Journal American. Later she was to reveal that the Warren Commission were also tipped off about this gathering. However, their informant added that there was a fourth man at the meeting, an important figure in the Texas oil industry.
Mark Lane testified before that Warren Commission that Thayer Waldo, a journalist on the staff of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, had told him that Weissman was involved in a two-hour meeting with Jack Ruby and J. D. Tippit at the Carousel Club on 14th November, 1963. According to Joachim Joesten (How Kennedy Was Killed), "a rich oil man" was also at this meeting. Weissman denied he had ever been to the Carousel Club and had never met Ruby or Tippit.
George Senator told reporters that Jack Ruby had tried to contact Weissman after the assassination. According to Seth Kantor (Who Was Jack Ruby): "He (Ruby) couldn't get to Bernard Weissman. There was no such person in the Dallas phone book."

John Beckham:


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