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Author Topic: A handful of Dallas authorities seemed like they were all over the place.  (Read 1387 times)

Offline Mark Valenti

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Not proof of anything on its face -- but there were a few cops and other folks who seemed like they were every place where something big was happening that weekend.

Harry Holmes, Buddy Walthers, Jack Ruby, etc.

With hundreds of available police personnel who could have shown up at any given location (Tippit murder, Texas Theater, Irving), the same names crop up.

I wonder if anyone has ever compiled a list of multiple appearances by various people.

For example, there were several witnesses who were at Love Field to watch JFK's arrival AND somehow found their way to Dealey Plaza to witness the assassination - among them Worrell and Powell.

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Online Martin Weidmann

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Not proof of anything on its face -- but there were a few cops and other folks who seemed like they were every place where something big was happening that weekend.

Harry Holmes, Buddy Walthers, Jack Ruby, etc.

With hundreds of available police personnel who could have shown up at any given location (Tippit murder, Texas Theater, Irving), the same names crop up.

I wonder if anyone has ever compiled a list of multiple appearances by various people.

For example, there were several witnesses who were at Love Field to watch JFK's arrival AND somehow found their way to Dealey Plaza to witness the assassination - among them Worrell and Powell.

Let's not forget the omni present Captain Westbrook, the personnel officer, who happened to be filmed at the Tippit scene looking at a wallet held by a police man and who asked FBI agent Barrett if he had ever heard of Oswald or Hidell.

That same Captain Westbrook then showed up at a parking lot where somebody (he doesn't know who) showed him a jacket under a car. The jacket is described on police radio as being white. He allegedly picks it up and gives it to another officer who he also doesn't know. Then he somehow gets the jacket, which by then amazingly had turned grey, back at the police station (from whom we don't know) where he gives it to the evidence room after first collecting markings from several officers (who were not part of the chain of custody) and forgetting to mark it himself.

That same Captain Westbrook who was too busy moving to the Texas Theater to apparently pay much attention to the jacket, yet who managed to "identify" without any difficulty the jacket in his WC testimony months later...

No, let's not forget Westbrook....

Offline Brian Walker

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Let's not forget the omni present Captain Westbrook, the personnel officer, who happened to be filmed at the Tippit scene looking at a wallet held by a police man and who asked FBI agent Barrett if he had ever heard of Oswald or Hidell.

That same Captain Westbrook then showed up at a parking lot where somebody (he doesn't know who) showed him a jacket under a car. The jacket is described on police radio as being white. He allegedly picks it up and gives it to another officer who he also doesn't know. Then he somehow gets the jacket, which by then amazingly had turned grey, back at the police station (from whom we don't know) where he gives it to the evidence room after first collecting markings from several officers (who were not part of the chain of custody) and forgetting to mark it himself.

That same Captain Westbrook who was too busy moving to the Texas Theater to apparently pay much attention to the jacket, yet who managed to "identify" without any difficulty the jacket in his WC testimony months later...

No, let's not forget Westbrook....

All you are missing is sinister music.

Offline Steve Thomas

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No, let's not forget Westbrook....

Martin,

Or Gerald Hill, who said he was present when the three shells were found at the TSBD, responded to the Tippit shooting, and was present when Oswald was arrested. The same Gerald Hill who told the WC that on the ride back downtown, Oswald had an identification card on him that had an Irving address.

Steve Thomas

Online Tom Sorensen

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Martin,

Or Gerald Hill, who said he was present when the three shells were found at the TSBD, responded to the Tippit shooting, and was present when Oswald was arrested. The same Gerald Hill who told the WC that on the ride back downtown, Oswald had an identification card on him that had an Irving address.

Steve Thomas

...and forgot to hand in "Oswald's" .38 pistol.

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Offline Robert Reeves

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Marvin Wise. The cop with the 'ear infection' in the photos and not an earpiece, who lead the Three Tramps, the cop that admitted he never booked the tramps in, he was also supposed to be guarding the basement during Oswald's assassination. He claimed he was told instead to guard the corner of Elm and await the armoured truck  arrival that was to transport Oswald. Wise then guarded the operating room as Oswald was treated at Parkland.Wise admitted he knew Ruby before he joined the Dallas Police in 1959. That he and his wife would regularly attend Ruby's nightclub.







These are an interesting bunch.

At the Trade Mart sometime in the morning. And then in the plaza as the tramps do their thing in the afternoon.



If this guy is a reporter, would he really have his back to the action, just as these tramps are being led across the plaza. Same hands in pockets looking like he doesn't want to be seen, below



She seems to be concerned with covering her face in the tramp pics, and as she walks by on film, below



And she makes a brief appearance with the shady coming together in the bottom right hand corner. spotted by Mary Jo, below



Smaller guy possibly outside TSBD, below






Offline Matt Grantham

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 If I understand correctly Hill reported to Westbrook so that would put very few connected players from the DPD at crucial positions in the investigation Namely Westbrook Hill and Croy claims an unknown man handed him the wallet at the scene Similar to Westbrook's claim that he is not sure what officer told him to look for the grey jacket at the gas station These individual ambiguity of these key facts is pretty troubling

Offline Steve Thomas

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Martin,

Or Gerald Hill, who said he was present when the three shells were found at the TSBD,...
Steve Thomas

I hadn't thought too much about this until I looked at hill's testimony again.

It's been my suspicion that somebody planted the wrong shells at the TSBD. They were bagged and tagged about a half an hour before the rifle was found. They had been identified as 6.5 mm shells, but the three Sheriff's Deputies who found the rifle all identified it as a 7.65 cal rifle.

I got to wondering if it's possible that Gerald Hill, who couldn't seem to get his shells straight might have been the one who planted the TSBD shells.

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Mr. Hill. Jumped out of the car and Inspector Sawyer was there.
I asked him did he have enough men outside to cover the building properly, and he said, "Yes; I believe so."
And I said, "Are you ready for us to go in and shake it down?"
And he said, "Yes, let's go in and check it out."
About this time Captain Fritz and two or three more detectives from homicide. a boy named Roy Westphal, who works for the special service bureau, and a couple of uniformed officers, and a couple of deputy sheriffs came up.
Now you identified them to me the other day, the two boys that were on the sixth floor from the sheriff's office.
Mr. BELIN. I think when we chatted briefly the other day, I believe I said Boone and Mooney. Does that sound familiar?
Mr. HILL. I wouldn't know, but I know they identified themselves to us as deputy sheriffs, and some more people knew them. We went up to the seventh floor on the elevator and I believe the elevator ran to the sixth, and we cut around the stairway and got to seven and shook it down.
At this time there were the two deputy sheriffs and I and one uniformed officer up there.
Mr. HILL. Left the uniformed officer there, and these two deputies and I went down to sixth. I started to the right side of the building.
Mr. BELIN. When you say the right side, you mean----
Mr. HILL. Well, it would have been the west side.
Mr. BELIN. All right, they moved over to the east side?
Mr. HILL. We hadn't been there but a minute until someone yelled, "Here it is," or words to that effect. I moved over and found they had found an area where the boxes had been stacked in sort of a triangle shape with three sides over near the window.
Two small boxes with Roller books on the side of the carton were stacked near the east side of the window.
Then, on the floor near the baseboard or against the baseboard of the south wall of the building, in front of the second window, in front of the, well, we would have to say second window from the east corner, were three spent shells.
This is actually the jacket that holds the powder and not the slug. At this point, I asked the deputy sheriff to guard the scene, not to let anybody touch anything, and I went over still further west to another window about the middle of the building on the south side and yelled down to the street for them to send us the crime lab. Not knowing or not getting any indication from the street that they heard me, I asked the deputies again to guard the scene and I would go down and make sure that the crime lab was en route.
When I got toward the back, at this time I heard the freight elevator moving, and I went back to the back of the building to either catch the freight elevator or the stairs, and Captain Fritz and his men were coming up on the elevator.
I told him what we found and pointed out the general area, pointed out the deputies to them, and told him also that I was going to make sure the crime lab was en route.
About the time I got to the street, Lieutenant Day from the crime lab was arriving and walking up toward the front door. I told him that the area we had found where the shots were fired from was on the sixth floor on the southeast corner, and that they were guarding the scene so nobody would touch anything until he got there. And he said, "All right."
And he went on into the building, and I went over to tell Inspector Sawyer, who was standing almost directly in front of the building across the little service drive there at what would actually be Elm and Houston.
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But I kept going up. And how come I get off the sixth floor, I don't know yet. But, anyway, I stopped on six, and didn't even know what floor I was on.
Mr. BALL - You were alone?
Mr. MOONEY - I was alone at that time.

And the minute I squeezed between these two stacks of boxes, I had to turn myself sideways to get in there that is when I saw the expended shells and the boxes that were stacked up looked to be a rest for the weapon. And, also, there was a slight crease in the top box. Whether the recoil made the crease or it was placed there before the shots were fired, I don't know. But, anyway, there was a very slight crease in the box, where the rifle could have lain--at the same angle that the shots were fired from.
So, at that time, I didn't lay my hands on anything, because I wanted to save every evidence we could for fingerprints. So I leaned out the window, the same window from which the shots were fired, looked down, and I saw Sheriff Bill Decker and Captain Will Fritz standing right on the ground.
Well, so I hollered, or signaled I hollered, I more or less hollered. I whistled a time or two before I got anybody to see me. And yet they was all looking that way, too except the sheriff, they wasn't looking up.

And I told him to get the crime lab officers en route, that I had the location spotted.

From Mooney's Sheriff's Report

I then went on back to the 6th floor and went direct to the far corner and then discovered a cubby hole which had been constructed out of cartons which protected it from sight and found where someone had been in an area of perhaps 2 feet surrounded by cardboard cartons of books. Inside this cubby hole affair was three more boxes so arranged as to provide what appeared to be a rest for a rifle. On one of these cartons was a half-eaten piece of chicken. The minute that I saw the expended shells on the floor, I hung my head out of the half opened window and signaled to Sheriff Bill Decker and Captain Will Fritz who were outside the building and advised them to send up the Crime Lab Officers at once that I had located the area from which the shots had been fired. At this time, Officers Webster, Victory, and McCurley came over to this spot and we guarded this spot until Crime Lab

Neither Fritz, nor Day, nor Mooney make any mention of Hill being there.

Gerald Hill, who at 1:34 PM radioed in to Headquarters that, “The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic 38, rather than a pistol.”

Steve Thomas

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Offline John Iacoletti

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All you are missing is sinister music.

All you're missing is the "trust us, we're from the government" jingle.

Offline Steve Thomas

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I hadn't thought too much about this until I looked at hill's testimony again.


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 At this point, I asked the deputy sheriff to guard the scene, not to let anybody touch anything, and I went over still further west to another window about the middle of the building on the south side and yelled down to the street for them to send us the crime lab. Not knowing or not getting any indication from the street that they heard me, I asked the deputies again to guard the scene and I would go down and make sure that the crime lab was en route.

Something else just occurred to me. Don't pictures of the south side of the TSBD show all those windows as being closed?

Steve Thomas

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