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Author Topic: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell  (Read 1623 times)

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2018, 02:16:04 PM »
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Both Barrett and Croy's recollections are based on 30 to 40 year old memories .

That may be, but why does Myers, on the one hand, accept Croy's recollection that there were 7 ID cards in the wallet with allegedly none in Oswald's name and, on the other hand, dismiss Barrett's recollection that Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell?

It's seems Myers is cherry-picking!

None of their contemporary reports or testimony mention the recovery of Oswald's wallet --- a highly curious oversight given the significance both men now attach to the discovery.

As far as I know, Croy never filed any report about anything and Barrett never actually found or handled the wallet. He was just asked a question about two names. Since when do questions being asked have to be mentioned in reports? Gus Rose, who did talk to Oswald and handled a wallet containing the Hidell ID never mentioned it in his report about his activities that day.

The wallet seen in the WFAA-TV news film is similar in style to Oswald's arrest wallet

That may well be, but how do we know the wallet now in the National Archives is actually "Oswald's arrest wallet"? And, comparing wallets doesn't tell us anything about their content.

Barrett claims Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell, which - if true - indicated those ID's were in the wallet. Paul Bentley, who allegedly took Oswald's wallet from him in the car, said on television the next day that he believed it contained a drivers license and a credit card. He does not mention the Hidell ID at all. In fact, none of the officers in the car, said anything about the Hidell alias in their reports, which is (to quote Myers) "a highly curious oversight".

Myers opinion is just that.... an opinion, and it seems a highly speculative one at that.

I believe the wallet was in the pocket of the white jacket.....   Which means that the cops knew the jacket did not belong to Lee Oswald...    But they desperately needed a link between Tippit and the man who ran in the direction of the Texas Theater so they refused to admit that they knew the Jacket was not Lee Oswalds.

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2018, 02:16:04 PM »


Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2018, 02:35:11 PM »
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The cop is running beside a 1960 Impala convertible.....At 1:39 and at 2:49  The tail lights of a light colored 1961 Chevrolet can be seen in the background behind the wallet in the cops hand.   That 1961 Chevy was parked in the parking lot behind Ballew's Texaco Station.  The 1961 Chevy was parked in the parking space to the right of the 1954 Oldsmobile that they claimed the white Jacket was found beneath. 

A person may have to be an old car buff like me to recognize the difference in the tail ights..... The 1960 Cheyy Impala had three lights  side by side on each side of the rear .....They were mounted on a sheet of machine finished aluminum..above the bumper and beneath the deck lid.

The 1961 Chevy was similar but definitely different....in that the machined aluminum had been deleted and the red lens were beehive shaped....as seen in the background behind the wallet....

I just read a book that was about a double murder in Nebraska.....   The crime was solved due to the sharp eye of a detective who spotted a tiny detail ( a ring) in a crime scene photo.  ( That small wedding band type ring on the floor  belonged to a young man who was 500 miles away from the murder site and had never been in Nebraska)

Those of you who believe a wallet was found at the scene of Tippit's murder should take the time to learn the difference between the tail lights on the 1960 and 1961 Chevrolet.  The tail lights that can be seen behind the wallet in the cops hand are the tail lights of a 1961 Chevy.  There was no 1961 Chevy near the Tippt murder scene on East 10th street.  That wallet may have been taken to the Tippit murder scene after it was found in the pocket of the white jacket which was found in the parking lot behind Ballew's Texaco Station...and there was a light colored 1961 Chevy parked there in the parking lot beside the Oldsmobile, beneath which they cops claimed the jacket was found.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 07:56:20 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2018, 03:42:27 PM »
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It's pretty simple all you have do is to imagine, or except in the abstract, that groups of people can or do conspire, yep I am going to use the forbidden term, to commit crime or intelligence operations Certainly you are not going to suggest that our own intelligence agencies do not plan for contingencies?

 Walt I did my best to search online for anything resembling the picture you are referring to Not much more I can do to address your claim

A contingency plan for what here?  What are you suggesting happened that caused them to change the plan?  That is not an explanation for the sequence of events.  There isn't any rational narrative for these POWERFUL people planting Oswald's wallet at the crime scene (great evidence to link him to the Tippit murder) to suppress it in favor of Oswald's arrest wallet.  Your fantasy conspirators would have known that it was likely that Oswald would have a wallet on him when arrested or killed that day.  So any plan that entails leaving a wallet at the Tippit scene must incorporate the likelihood of a second wallet being on Oswald's person upon his arrest/death and plan to suppress that wallet.  And imagine the plan of actually leaving a wallet at the Tippit scene, allowing it to be discovered, but then suppressing it.  LOL.  That makes no sense as a contingency plan or otherwise.  It is extremely risky and pointless.  If the plan was to frame Oswald for this crime, then all the incentives are to claim that Oswald's wallet was found at the Tippit scene.  Instead what is being suggested is that conspirators behind Oswald's frame up suppressed great evidence of his guilt!  It just doesn't add up that whoever discovered the wallet would not have radioed in the identity of the suspect and that this valuable evidence of Oswald's guilt would for some inexplicable reason then be covered up by the very folks who otherwise are alleged to be framing him.   It's a hodgepodge of nonsense.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2018, 03:58:27 PM »
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It's pretty simple all you have do is to imagine, or except in the abstract, that groups of people can or do conspire, yep I am going to use the forbidden term, to commit crime or intelligence operations Certainly you are not going to suggest that our own intelligence agencies do not plan for contingencies?

 Walt I did my best to search online for anything resembling the picture you are referring to Not much more I can do to address your claim

Walt I did my best to search online for anything resembling the picture you are referring to

Did you look at the background behind the wallet at the 4: 12 point in the video you posted?

« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 08:59:55 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Online Matt Grantham

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2018, 07:24:27 PM »
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A contingency plan for what here?  What are you suggesting happened that caused them to change the plan?  That is not an explanation for the sequence of events.  There isn't any rational narrative for these POWERFUL people planting Oswald's wallet at the crime scene (great evidence to link him to the Tippit murder) to suppress it in favor of Oswald's arrest wallet.  Your fantasy conspirators would have known that it was likely that Oswald would have a wallet on him when arrested or killed that day.  So any plan that entails leaving a wallet at the Tippit scene must incorporate the likelihood of a second wallet being on Oswald's person upon his arrest/death and plan to suppress that wallet.  And imagine the plan of actually leaving a wallet at the Tippit scene, allowing it to be discovered, but then suppressing it.  LOL.  That makes no sense as a contingency plan or otherwise.  It is extremely risky and pointless.  If the plan was to frame Oswald for this crime, then all the incentives are to claim that Oswald's wallet was found at the Tippit scene.  Instead what is being suggested is that conspirators behind Oswald's frame up suppressed great evidence of his guilt!  It just doesn't add up that whoever discovered the wallet would not have radioed in the identity of the suspect and that this valuable evidence of Oswald's guilt would for some inexplicable reason then be covered up by the very folks who otherwise are alleged to be framing him.   It's a hodgepodge of nonsense.

 So I must theorize? How about you comment on what is seemingly a fact, a picture with Oswald's wallet in Westbrook's hand, witness testimony etc. What would it be in the order of things that I need to comment on what exactly went wrong with a plan I have knowledge. It opens the land of pure conjecture and it seems to your favorite form of fantasy land


 I kind of changed my mind and will offer a scenario That being said I am familiar with those who insist on taking to frames of examination such as yours Critics of a particular theory must provide the correct version of all events at the same time Anyway you want a shot at it, I will give you one Lets say the conspirators wanted to frame Oswald, and it was important to them to either capture him or kill him shortly after the assassination Therefore you would want a contingent reason to take him into custody, so you create the circumstances with the Tippit murder until you have him in custody Then once you have him in custody, it may look better to not use the wallet evidence because lets face it it looks a little suspicious for the suspect to seemingly leave his wallet at the scene
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 08:57:55 PM by Matt Grantham »

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2018, 07:24:27 PM »


Online Matt Grantham

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2018, 07:37:05 PM »
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Walt I did my best to search online for anything resembling the picture you are referring to

Did you look at the background behind the wallet at the 1: 41 point in the video you posted?


 OK there is a barely recognizable background I have said before I will happily agree that the wallet is seen at the Texaco instead It seems to make little difference in terms of my discussion with Richard and those who want to discount the finding of the wallet Or inform me otherwise please

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2018, 08:32:49 PM »
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OK there is a barely recognizable background I have said before I will happily agree that the wallet is seen at the Texaco instead It seems to make little difference in terms of my discussion with Richard and those who want to discount the finding of the wallet Or inform me otherwise please

Matt....Someone has spliced frames from  Weilands video that he took in the alley behind Ballew's Texaco onto a video that was taken at the Tippit murder site in an effort to make it appear the wallet was found at the Tippit site.....

Online Matt Grantham

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2018, 08:36:59 PM »
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Matt....Someone has spliced frames from  Weilands video that he took in the alley behind Ballew's Texaco onto a video that was taken at the Tippit murder site in an effort to make it appear the wallet was found at the Tippit site.....

 OK Thanks Walt I can't really discern the background in the video portion you cited, but I am happy to take your word for that you and others have looked into it closely

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2018, 08:36:59 PM »


Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2018, 08:55:31 PM »
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OK Thanks Walt I can't really discern the background in the video portion you cited, but I am happy to take your word for that you and others have looked into it closely

Matt, The clip is seen several times in the video...At the 4:12 point the tail lights of a 1961 Chevy at clearly visible and the cop holding the wallet also has a S&W revolver in his hand.... By the time CSI Detective Pete Barnes arrived at the Tippit site ( Barnes dusting Tippit's car for prints)  Lee Oswald had been taken from the theater and there was no need fro a cop to have his revolver in his hand....However that was not the case at the time the cops converged on the alley behind Ballew's Texaco.   There was a distinct possibility that the fleeing man was still in the area and a cop would want his revolver ready.....
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 09:01:34 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Online Matt Grantham

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2018, 11:30:43 PM »
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Matt, The clip is seen several times in the video...At the 4:12 point the tail lights of a 1961 Chevy at clearly visible and the cop holding the wallet also has a S&W revolver in his hand.... By the time CSI Detective Pete Barnes arrived at the Tippit site ( Barnes dusting Tippit's car for prints)  Lee Oswald had been taken from the theater and there was no need fro a cop to have his revolver in his hand....However that was not the case at the time the cops converged on the alley behind Ballew's Texaco.   There was a distinct possibility that the fleeing man was still in the area and a cop would want his revolver ready.....

I am not sure where this leaves us If we conclude the background of the photo is altered then we we really have little evidence as to what the actual conditions of the picture, or video of Westbrook holding the wallet It is yet another piece that apparently shows alteration and therefore is inferentialy significant of a cover up Not sure  it gives us much as to where and when the actual photograph was taken

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2018, 11:30:43 PM »