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Author Topic: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell  (Read 4192 times)

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2018, 02:27:02 AM »
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There are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time or in the months and year following the assassination that mention Oswald's wallet being found at the scene of the Tippit shooting.

True, but there also are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time about the Hidell ID allegedly found in the wallet that Paul Bentley took from Oswald in the car.

So where does that leave us?





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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2018, 02:27:02 AM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2018, 03:31:50 PM »
You would think that Lee Oswald would know that his half-brother John's last name was not Oswald...

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2018, 05:52:53 PM »
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Nice.. the interview conducted with Oswald mentioned in the report was done by Gus Rose, who told us so in his WC testimony.

So, where is the first hand report by Gus Rose?

And secondly, Rose told the WC that he had just arrived at work when Oswald was brought in. He claims Oswald told him his name was Hidell. Remarkably, Clemments does not mention that in his report at all!

Rose also claimed he asked Oswald for his name prior to checking the billfold he had been given. He could not say who gave him the billfold or whether it was the patrolman who brought Oswald in or not.

Now remember I said;

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True, but there also are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time about the Hidell ID allegedly found in the wallet that Paul Bentley took from Oswald in the car.


So, which wallet was Rose given and which wallet is Clemments talking about? The one taken from Oswald by Bentley (who never said a word about finding or seeing the Hidell ID) or the one found at the Tippit scene that Barett said contained ID's for Oswald and Hidell?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 07:44:59 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2018, 09:28:55 PM »
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Nice.. the interview conducted with Oswald mentioned in the report was done by Gus Rose, who told us so in his WC testimony.

So, where is the first hand report by Gus Rose?

And secondly, Rose told the WC that he had just arrived at work when Oswald was brought in. He claims Oswald told him his name was Hidell. Remarkably, Clemments does not mention that in his report at all!

Rose also claimed he asked Oswald for his name prior to checking the billfold he had been given. He could not say who gave him the billfold or whether it was the patrolman who brought Oswald in or not.

Now remember I said;

So, which wallet was Rose given and which wallet is Clemments talking about? The one taken from Oswald by Bentley (who never said a word about finding or seeing the Hidell ID) or the one found at the Tippit scene that Barett said contained ID's for Oswald and Hidell?

Excuse me but the the interview conducted with Oswald mentioned in the report was done by Manning Clements, who told us so in his WC testimony.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2018, 09:45:19 PM »
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Excuse me but the the interview conducted with Oswald mentioned in the report was done by Manning Clements, who told us so in his WC testimony.

Thanks Tim... I missed that. In his testimony Clements tells us he interviewed Oswald at 10 pm which is hours after Gus Rose talked to him. When Oswald was taken to a line up, Clements examined the content of a wallet that had been identified to him as Oswald's wallet.

So the questions I asked are still valid.

Where is the first hand report of Gus Rose, who, according to his WC testimony, was the first person to talk to Oswald about the Hidell alias?

And how does Clements and/or Rose know that the wallet they had was in fact the wallet taken from Oswald by Bentley?

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2018, 09:45:19 PM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2018, 10:11:30 PM »
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Thanks Tim... I missed that. In his testimony Clements tells us he interviewed Oswald at 10 pm which is hours after Gus Rose talked to him. When Oswald was taken to a line up, Clements examined the content of a wallet that had been identified to him as Oswald's wallet.

So the questions I asked are still valid.

Where is the first hand report of Gus Rose, who, according to his WC testimony, was the first person to talk to Oswald about the Hidell alias?

Rose said he talked with Oswald for a few minutes. Was it standard procedure for DPD officers to write up reports on short conversations they had with suspects?

Quote
And how does Clements and/or Rose know that the wallet they had was in fact the wallet taken from Oswald by Bentley?

I don't know that Clements or Rose knew who it was that removed the wallet from Oswald's possession. I'm unaware of any other wallet of Oswald's that the DPD had possession of that day that contained identification in the name of Hidell.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 10:23:32 PM by Tim Nickerson »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2018, 10:47:32 PM »
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Rose said he talked with Oswald for a few minutes. Was it standard procedure for DPD officers to write up reports on short conversations they had with suspects?

I don't know that Clements or Rose knew who it was that removed the wallet from Oswald's possession. I'm unaware of any other wallet of Oswald's that the DPD had possession of that day that contained identification in the name of Hidell.

Rose said he talked with Oswald for a few minutes. Was it standard procedure for DPD officers to write up reports on short conversations they had with suspects?

I have no idea. Perhaps not, but since he claimed, months later, that Oswald used a false name to identify himself with, it would perhaps have been a good idea to mention it in the report he did write about his other activities that day.

I don't know that Clements or Rose knew who it was that removed the wallet from Oswald's possession.

I did not ask that. Rose told us he was given a wallet by an officer and Clements merely said in his testimony that the wallet was identified to him as Oswald's wallet. So, it's pretty clear that neither Rose or Clements knew where the wallet came from.

I'm unaware of any other wallet of Oswald's that the DPD had possession of that day that contained identification in the name of Hidell.

Bentley (nor any officer in the car) mentioned the Hidell ID card being found in Oswald wallet during the trip to the police station.

On the other hand, Barrett claims that Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell while holding a wallet at the Tippit scene.

So, when you say you only know of one wallet the DPD had that contained the Hidell identification, which wallet do you mean exactly?

« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 10:51:27 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Mike Orr

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2018, 02:45:10 AM »
    As per      jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2014/03/solving-tippit-murders-wallet-mystery.html   By Dale K. Myers                       
   
     The wallet seen in the WFAA-TV news film is similar in style to Oswald's arrest wallet, however, they are clearly not identical- period . It's not even close. In particular, the newsfilm wallet has a leather flap that is square, while Oswald's arrest wallet flap is rounded. In addition, the news film wallet is obviously thinner and more worn than Oswald's arrest wallet. Kenneth H. Croy told me in 2009 that the wallet turned over to him at the Tippit shooting scene had 7 or so identification cards in it and that none were in the name of Oswald . ( Then who's wallet was it ?) Why then did Croy think the wallet was Oswald's ??? Croys belief that the wallet was Oswald's was based on an assumption that Tippit's killer dropped the wallet, and that since Oswald was later arrested for Tippit's murder, the wallet must have been his . Croy told me that he had no first hand knowledge that the wallet contained anything that connected it to suspect Oswald. In the end , only one thing is certain-- the wallet filmed at the scene by WFAA_TV cameraman Ron Reiland is " NOT " the wallet taken from from Oswalds pocket after his arrest. FBI agent Robert Barrett did not know how police got the wallet or where it was found. His recollection was that Captain Westbrook was holding a wallet while at the scene and asked him (Barrett), who had learned Oswalds wallet contained two names-- Oswald and Hidell. Was this what Barrett was recalling ? Barrett says no.

FBI agent Barrett was known by fellow agents as being one who put meticulous details in his reports. Barretts contemporary report of his activities on November 22,1963 , fails to mention the wallet , as does his 1975 testimony to the Senate intelligence Committee during which he recounted his activities that day. Both Barrett and Croy's recollections are based on 30 to 40 year old memories . None of their contemporary reports or testimony mention the recovery of Oswald's wallet --- a highly curious oversight given the significance both men now attach to the discovery.

So the wallet at Tippits murder site contained 7 or so identification cards in it but since none of the ID.s had the name of Oswald on them then that wallet was treated like there was no way that it could belong to Tippit's killer so it was just treated as a wallet that was found at the scene of Tippit's MURDER .   Who's Wallet was found at Tippit's MURDER scene ?????????? It sure wasn't Oswald's ?????

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2018, 02:45:10 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2018, 08:57:16 AM »
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    As per      jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2014/03/solving-tippit-murders-wallet-mystery.html   By Dale K. Myers                       
   
     The wallet seen in the WFAA-TV news film is similar in style to Oswald's arrest wallet, however, they are clearly not identical- period . It's not even close. In particular, the newsfilm wallet has a leather flap that is square, while Oswald's arrest wallet flap is rounded. In addition, the news film wallet is obviously thinner and more worn than Oswald's arrest wallet. Kenneth H. Croy told me in 2009 that the wallet turned over to him at the Tippit shooting scene had 7 or so identification cards in it and that none were in the name of Oswald . ( Then who's wallet was it ?) Why then did Croy think the wallet was Oswald's ??? Croys belief that the wallet was Oswald's was based on an assumption that Tippit's killer dropped the wallet, and that since Oswald was later arrested for Tippit's murder, the wallet must have been his . Croy told me that he had no first hand knowledge that the wallet contained anything that connected it to suspect Oswald. In the end , only one thing is certain-- the wallet filmed at the scene by WFAA_TV cameraman Ron Reiland is " NOT " the wallet taken from from Oswalds pocket after his arrest. FBI agent Robert Barrett did not know how police got the wallet or where it was found. His recollection was that Captain Westbrook was holding a wallet while at the scene and asked him (Barrett), who had learned Oswalds wallet contained two names-- Oswald and Hidell. Was this what Barrett was recalling ? Barrett says no.

FBI agent Barrett was known by fellow agents as being one who put meticulous details in his reports. Barretts contemporary report of his activities on November 22,1963 , fails to mention the wallet , as does his 1975 testimony to the Senate intelligence Committee during which he recounted his activities that day. Both Barrett and Croy's recollections are based on 30 to 40 year old memories . None of their contemporary reports or testimony mention the recovery of Oswald's wallet --- a highly curious oversight given the significance both men now attach to the discovery.

So the wallet at Tippits murder site contained 7 or so identification cards in it but since none of the ID.s had the name of Oswald on them then that wallet was treated like there was no way that it could belong to Tippit's killer so it was just treated as a wallet that was found at the scene of Tippit's MURDER .   Who's Wallet was found at Tippit's MURDER scene ?????????? It sure wasn't Oswald's ?????


Both Barrett and Croy's recollections are based on 30 to 40 year old memories .

That may be, but why does Myers, on the one hand, accept Croy's recollection that there were 7 ID cards in the wallet with allegedly none in Oswald's name and, on the other hand, dismiss Barrett's recollection that Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell?

It's seems Myers is cherry-picking!

None of their contemporary reports or testimony mention the recovery of Oswald's wallet --- a highly curious oversight given the significance both men now attach to the discovery.

As far as I know, Croy never filed any report about anything and Barrett never actually found or handled the wallet. He was just asked a question about two names. Since when do questions being asked have to be mentioned in reports? Gus Rose, who did talk to Oswald and handled a wallet containing the Hidell ID never mentioned it in his report about his activities that day.

The wallet seen in the WFAA-TV news film is similar in style to Oswald's arrest wallet

That may well be, but how do we know the wallet now in the National Archives is actually "Oswald's arrest wallet"? And, comparing wallets doesn't tell us anything about their content.

Barrett claims Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell, which - if true - indicated those ID's were in the wallet. Paul Bentley, who allegedly took Oswald's wallet from him in the car, said on television the next day that he believed it contained a drivers license and a credit card. He does not mention the Hidell ID at all. In fact, none of the officers in the car, said anything about the Hidell alias in their reports, which is (to quote Myers) "a highly curious oversight".

Myers opinion is just that.... an opinion, and it seems a highly speculative one at that.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 09:05:18 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2018, 02:16:04 PM »
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Both Barrett and Croy's recollections are based on 30 to 40 year old memories .

That may be, but why does Myers, on the one hand, accept Croy's recollection that there were 7 ID cards in the wallet with allegedly none in Oswald's name and, on the other hand, dismiss Barrett's recollection that Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell?

It's seems Myers is cherry-picking!

None of their contemporary reports or testimony mention the recovery of Oswald's wallet --- a highly curious oversight given the significance both men now attach to the discovery.

As far as I know, Croy never filed any report about anything and Barrett never actually found or handled the wallet. He was just asked a question about two names. Since when do questions being asked have to be mentioned in reports? Gus Rose, who did talk to Oswald and handled a wallet containing the Hidell ID never mentioned it in his report about his activities that day.

The wallet seen in the WFAA-TV news film is similar in style to Oswald's arrest wallet

That may well be, but how do we know the wallet now in the National Archives is actually "Oswald's arrest wallet"? And, comparing wallets doesn't tell us anything about their content.

Barrett claims Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell, which - if true - indicated those ID's were in the wallet. Paul Bentley, who allegedly took Oswald's wallet from him in the car, said on television the next day that he believed it contained a drivers license and a credit card. He does not mention the Hidell ID at all. In fact, none of the officers in the car, said anything about the Hidell alias in their reports, which is (to quote Myers) "a highly curious oversight".

Myers opinion is just that.... an opinion, and it seems a highly speculative one at that.

I believe the wallet was in the pocket of the white jacket.....   Which means that the cops knew the jacket did not belong to Lee Oswald...    But they desperately needed a link between Tippit and the man who ran in the direction of the Texas Theater so they refused to admit that they knew the Jacket was not Lee Oswalds.

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Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2018, 02:16:04 PM »