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Author Topic: Autopsy proves SBT impossible  (Read 11570 times)

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #260 on: May 17, 2018, 08:39:39 AM »
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WTF could possibly the shooter be aiming at with his 1st shot to have completely missed the ENTIRE LIMO?? and at the closest range of only 53 meters away?
Good question. 

There is no evidence that any shot missed. In fact, there is evidence that each of the shots hit.  There are at least 70 witnesses who provided evidence that the first shot struck JFK (they said either that JFK reacted to his neck wound on the first shot or that the last two shots occurred after JFK is seen reacting to his neck wound in the zfilm).  Not a single witness said he smiled and waved after the first shot (which is what the SBT says happened).  Gov. Connally, supported by a number of witnesses close-by, gave evidence that he was hit in the torso by the second shot.  We can see the effect of the third shot.

Not only is it difficult to understand how the sniper could have missed the entire limo at 160-175 feet, but it is difficult to understand how the bullet could have failed to leave a mark anywhere in Dealey Plaza. It is even more difficult to understand how a missed shot could have given so many people the impression that it struck JFK.



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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #260 on: May 17, 2018, 08:39:39 AM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #261 on: May 17, 2018, 01:52:21 PM »
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Except that he reported one shot and then two more, which suggests a 1 and 2-3 grouping which excludes the second shot SBT.
?? That seems to be 4 shots.  In his Dec. 17/63 FBI statement he said that he saw dust spray on the pavement on the driver's side of the limo and then "a few seconds" later heard 3 shots.
No. He is an "at least two shots" witness. Read his statement.
Walters is guessing.  The curb smear was analyzed and no copper was found, just lead and antimony. That indicates that the curb was struck by a lead fragment.


You completely and utterly missed the whole point so you could advance this odd unsupported belief in an imaginary shot at Z270. Each of these people are stating that two shots caused all the wounds to the people riding in the car.


Where does Betzner mention a third shot. He doesn't. He mentions a second shot and what happens in the car.



Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #262 on: May 17, 2018, 04:17:48 PM »
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You completely and utterly missed the whole point so you could advance this odd unsupported belief in an imaginary shot at Z270.
What is imaginary about 45+ people saying there were 3 shots and the last two were closer together?  What is imaginary about Hickey saying he was facing JFK on the second shot and kept facing him?  He  is turned rearward in Altgens' photo at z256.  What is imaginary of about Greer saying he turned around to look behind immediately after the second shot and we see him turning from z278 or so to z280? That is evidence of a second shot between z256 and z278. Hickey said JFK's hair on his right side flew up on the second shot.  His hair flies up from z273-276.

Quote
Each of these people are stating that two shots caused all the wounds to the people riding in the car.

Where does Betzner mention a third shot. He doesn't. He mentions a second shot and what happens in the car.
He says that there were at least two shots.  That means he is not sure how many but there were a minimum of 2.  That is not evidence that there were only two shots.  None of these four witnesses went so far to say which shots struck and what they struck.

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #263 on: May 17, 2018, 06:15:50 PM »
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WTF could possibly the shooter be aiming at with his 1st shot to have completely missed the ENTIRE LIMO?? and at the closest range of only 53 meters away?


This the range MOST of the CBS shooters were able to hit the target in the test trial.


Yet the "expert" sniper for some reason wasnt even aiming at the limo at all and that bullet has never been found.

The LNers contend that Oswald lined up JFK thru his wonky scope and missed the entire limo with his 1st shot. Realizing his scope was grossly misaligned, he switched to the iron sights and scored a 2 for 2 in 5 secs flat. But if he was such an expert marksman then he would have known the scope would be useless since he had obviously never fired the rifle before, otherwise, he would have surely zeroed the scope during practice sessions.

Ask yourself why Oswald didn't take the 1st shot when the limo almost stopped turning onto Elm? JFK was delivered to him on a silver platter. How could he miss a stationary target at ~40 feet? And why did the FBI edit the turn onto Elm out of the Z film? And where is the original Z film? It would tell all.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 01:48:24 AM by Jack Trojan »

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #264 on: May 18, 2018, 05:08:11 AM »
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What is imaginary about 45+ people saying there were 3 shots and the last two were closer together?  What is imaginary about Hickey saying he was facing JFK on the second shot and kept facing him?  He  is turned rearward in Altgens' photo at z256.  What is imaginary of about Greer saying he turned around to look behind immediately after the second shot and we see him turning from z278 or so to z280? That is evidence of a second shot between z256 and z278. Hickey said JFK's hair on his right side flew up on the second shot.  His hair flies up from z273-276.
He says that there were at least two shots.  That means he is not sure how many but there were a minimum of 2.  That is not evidence that there were only two shots.  None of these four witnesses went so far to say which shots struck and what they struck.



These witnesses don't state anything like what you have stated they said. These are their statements from 11/22.

Samuel A. Kinney  11/22
Special Agent
White House Detail

I was driving SS 679-X, follow-up. As we turned off Main Street (left) about 4 minutes from our destination of Trade Mart. The first shot was fired as we were going into an underpass. The first shot was fired, I glanced from the taillight of SS 100-X, at the President and it appeared that he had been shot because he slumped to the left. Immediately he sat up again.* At this time the second shot was fired and I observed hair flying from the right side of his head. With this, simultaneously with the President's car, we stepped on the gas. I released the siren at that time. I did hear three shots but do not recall which shots were those that hit the President.

Kinney identifies shot 1 and shot 2


George Hickey: 11/22
Just prior to the shooting I was seated in the rear of SS-6',9-X on the left side. As 100-X made the turn and proceeded a short-distance I heard what seemed to me that a firecracker exploded to the right and rear. I stood partially up and turned to the rear to see if I could observe anything. Nothing was observed and I turned around and looked at the President's car. The President was slumped to the left in the car and I observed him come up. I heard what appeared to be two shots and it seemed as if the right side of his head was hit and his hair flew forward. I then reached down, picked up the AR 15, cocked and loaded it- and stood part way up in the car and looked about. By this time, 100-X had 679-X had passed under the overpass and was proceeding at a high rate of speed towards the hospital.


JFK's hair flew forward from the impact of the bullet




WILLIAM R. GREER'S REPORT ON
DALLAS, TEXAS

......A short distance ahead, the street passed under a railroad or expressway. A building stood on the right side of the street, that would have been the last building we would have had to pass before entering the underpass.

The President's automobile was almost past this building and I was looking at the overpass that we were about to pass under in case someone was on top of it, when I heard what I thought was the backfire of a motorcycle behind the President's automobile. After the second shot, I glanced over my right shoulder and saw Governor Connally start to fall, I knew then that something was wrong and I immediately pushed the accelerator to the floor and Mr. Kellerman said, get out of here.

Greer said he heard two shots and then he sped away. Matches Kellerman's description stating "get out of here" after the headshot. Greer accelerates after the headshot, just like the Zapruder film showed. Greer said there was two shots to that point, Kellerman said three.


[/I



I don't see it, point out where Betzner states there is a third shot.

No, Skelton, Miller, and Walters identify every shot. They are specific as to where the shots landed. They leave two shots hitting the occupants of the car.

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #264 on: May 18, 2018, 05:08:11 AM »


Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #265 on: May 18, 2018, 05:41:54 AM »
Mr. SPECTER. As you are positioning yourself in the witness chair, your right hand is up with the finger at the ear level as if clutching from the right of the head; would that be an accurate description of the position you pictured there?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes. Good. There was enough for me to verify that the man was hit. So, in the same motion I come right back and grabbed the speaker and said to the driver, "Let's get out of here; we are hit," and grabbed the mike and I said, "Lawson, this is Kellerman,"--this is Lawson, who is in the front car. "We are hit; get us to the hospital immediately." Now, in the seconds that I talked just now, a flurry of shells come into the car. I then looked back and this time Mr. Hill, who was riding on the left front bumper of our followup car, was on the back trunk of that car; the President was sideways down into. the back seat.

~snip~

Mr. SPECTER. Now, in your prior testimony you described a flurry of shells into the car. How many shots did you hear after the first noise which you described as sounding like a firecracker?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, these shells came in all together.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you able to say how many you heard?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say two, and it was like a double bang--bang, bang.
Mr. SPECTER. You mean now two shots in addition to the first noise?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; yes, sir; at least.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the time, in seconds, from the first noise sounding like a firecracker until the second noise which you heard?
Mr. KELLERMAN. This was instantaneous

~snip~

Mr. SPECTER. Can you describe the sound of the flurry of shots by way of distinction with the way you have described the sound of the first shot?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Well, having heard all types of guns fired, most of them, rather, if I recall correctly these were two sharp reports, sir. Again, I am going to refer to it as like a plane going through a sound barrier; bang, bang.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, you are referring to the flurry?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.
Mr. SPECTER. Did it sound differently from the first noise you have described as being a firecracker?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes; definitely; very much so.

~snip~

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman, you said earlier that there were at least two additional shots. Is there any area in your mind or possibility, as you recollect that situation, that there could have been more than two shots, or are you able to say with any certainty?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen.
Senator COOPER. What is that answer? What did he say?
Mr. SPECTER. Will you repeat that, Mr. Kellerman?
Mr. KELLERMAN.President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the head and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports, had three. There have got to be more than three shots.
Representative FORD. Is that why you have described--
Mr. KELLERMAN. The flurry.
Representative FORD. The noise as a flurry?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 05:45:42 AM by Gary Craig »

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #266 on: May 18, 2018, 10:30:05 AM »
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Mr. SPECTER. As you are positioning yourself in the witness chair, your right hand is up with the finger at the ear level as if clutching from the right of the head; would that be an accurate description of the position you pictured there?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes. Good. There was enough for me to verify that the man was hit. So, in the same motion I come right back and grabbed the speaker and said to the driver, "Let's get out of here; we are hit," and grabbed the mike and I said, "Lawson, this is Kellerman,"--this is Lawson, who is in the front car. "We are hit; get us to the hospital immediately." Now, in the seconds that I talked just now, a flurry of shells come into the car. I then looked back and this time Mr. Hill, who was riding on the left front bumper of our followup car, was on the back trunk of that car; the President was sideways down into. the back seat.

~snip~

Mr. SPECTER. Now, in your prior testimony you described a flurry of shells into the car. How many shots did you hear after the first noise which you described as sounding like a firecracker?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, these shells came in all together.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you able to say how many you heard?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say two, and it was like a double bang--bang, bang.
Mr. SPECTER. You mean now two shots in addition to the first noise?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; yes, sir; at least.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the time, in seconds, from the first noise sounding like a firecracker until the second noise which you heard?
Mr. KELLERMAN. This was instantaneous

~snip~

Mr. SPECTER. Can you describe the sound of the flurry of shots by way of distinction with the way you have described the sound of the first shot?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Well, having heard all types of guns fired, most of them, rather, if I recall correctly these were two sharp reports, sir. Again, I am going to refer to it as like a plane going through a sound barrier; bang, bang.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, you are referring to the flurry?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.
Mr. SPECTER. Did it sound differently from the first noise you have described as being a firecracker?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes; definitely; very much so.

~snip~

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman, you said earlier that there were at least two additional shots. Is there any area in your mind or possibility, as you recollect that situation, that there could have been more than two shots, or are you able to say with any certainty?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen.
Senator COOPER. What is that answer? What did he say?
Mr. SPECTER. Will you repeat that, Mr. Kellerman?
Mr. KELLERMAN.President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the head and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports, had three. There have got to be more than three shots.
Representative FORD. Is that why you have described--
Mr. KELLERMAN. The flurry.
Representative FORD. The noise as a flurry?


Kellerman states the car accelerated after the second shot and before the third shot. The car is seen to accelerate after the head shot and there were not another shot after the head shot. Kellerman repeats twice the car accelerating after the second shot and before a third shot.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, to the best of your ability to recollect, exactly when did your automobile first accelerate?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Our car accelerated immediately on the time-at the time--this flurry of shots came into it.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you say the acceleration--
Mr. KELLERMAN. Between the second and third shot
.


Senator COOPER. Might I ask a question there?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Senator COOPER. A few minutes ago you said in response to a question that when you spoke to the driver the car leaped forward from an acceleration immediately. Did that acceleration occur before the second shot was fired?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Just about the time that it came in.
Senator COOPER. About the time it came in?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. Not before?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No.




Roy H. Kellerman
Assistant Special Agent in Charge
11-29-63

We were still traveling at the normal rate of speed of from 12 to 15 miles per hour when I heard a noise, similar to a firecracker, exploding in the area to the rear of the car, about 12:30 p.m.

Immediately I heard what I firmly believe was the President's voice, "My God, I'm hit!" I turned around to find out what happened when two additional shots rang out, and the President slumped into Mrs. Kennedy's lap and Governor Connally fell_to Mrs. Connally's lap. I heard Mrs. Kennedy shout, "What are they doing to you?"


Clint Hill -------two shots

On the left hand side was a grass area with a few people scattered along it observing the motorcade passing, and I was visually scanning these people when I heard a noise similar to a firecracker. The sound came from my right rear and I immediately moved my head in that direction. In so doing, my eyes had to cross the Presidential automobile and I saw the President hunch forward and then slump to his left. I jumped from the Follow-up car and ran toward the Presidential automobile. I heard a second firecracker type noise but it had a different sound-- like the sound of shooting a revolver into something hard. I saw the President slump more toward his left.

I jumped onto the left rear step of the Presidential automobile. Mrs. Kennedy shouted, "They've shot his head off;" then turned and raised out of her seat as if she were reaching to her right rear toward the back of the car for something that had blown out. I forced her back into her seat and placed my body above President and Mrs. Kennedy. SA Greer had, as I jumped onto the Presidential automobile, accelerated the Presidential automobile forward. I heard ASAIC Kellerman call SA Lawson on the two-way radio and say, "To the nearest hospital, quick." I shouted as loud as I could at the Lead car, "To the hospital, to the hospital."




]Paul E. Landis, Jr.------ two shots


I think I recall Special Agent Jack Ready saying, "What was it? A fire cracker?" I remarked ''I don't know, I don't see any smoke." All during this time I was scanning the crowd and returning my gaze to the President's car. By then I think I had my gun out, but I do not recall exactly when it was drawn. I then thought that maybe one of the cars in the motorcade had had a blowout that had echoed off the buildings. I looked at the front right tire of the President's car and saw it was alright and glanced to see the right rear tire but could not as the follow-up car was too close. In fact, from my position on the running board of the follow-up car I could not see the rear bumper of the President's car. I glanced back towards the President, he still appeared upright in his seat, leaning slightly towards Mrs. Kennedy. It was at this moment that I heard a second report and saw the President's head split open and pieces of flesh and blood flying through the air. I also remember Special Agent Clinton Hill attempting to climb onto the back of the car at the time the second shot was fired. I would guess that the time between the first and second shot was approximately four or five seconds.



Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #267 on: May 18, 2018, 01:59:02 PM »
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These witnesses don't state anything like what you have stated they said. These are their statements from 11/22.

Samuel A. Kinney  11/22
Special Agent
White House Detail

I was driving SS 679-X, follow-up. As we turned off Main Street (left) about 4 minutes from our destination of Trade Mart. The first shot was fired as we were going into an underpass. The first shot was fired, I glanced from the taillight of SS 100-X, at the President and it appeared that he had been shot because he slumped to the left. Immediately he sat up again.* At this time the second shot was fired and I observed hair flying from the right side of his head. With this, simultaneously with the President's car, we stepped on the gas. I released the siren at that time. I did hear three shots but do not recall which shots were those that hit the President.

Kinney identifies shot 1 and shot 2

Kinney observes hair flying from the right side of his head. That is an odd way to describe his head exploding. It is very similar to what Hickey said occurred on the second shot (18H762):

"The first shot of the second two seemed as if it missed because the hair on the right side of his head flew forward and there didnít seem to be any impact against his head."

Kinney identifies shots 1 and 2 by what he saw occur with the President. He said that he heard three shots. That suggests he may not have been looking at the President at the time of the third shot. He may have been distracted by the slowing down of the limo just before the head shot and by Clint Hill running between the two cars.

Quote
George Hickey: 11/22
Just prior to the shooting I was seated in the rear of SS-6',9-X on the left side. As 100-X made the turn and proceeded a short-distance I heard what seemed to me that a firecracker exploded to the right and rear. I stood partially up and turned to the rear to see if I could observe anything. Nothing was observed and I turned around and looked at the President's car. The President was slumped to the left in the car and I observed him come up. I heard what appeared to be two shots and it seemed as if the right side of his head was hit and his hair flew forward. I then reached down, picked up the AR 15, cocked and loaded it- and stood part way up in the car and looked about. By this time, 100-X had 679-X had passed under the overpass and was proceeding at a high rate of speed towards the hospital.


JFK's hair flew forward from the impact of the bullet

Hickey gave a second statement that clarified what he observed. Have a look at his Nov. 30 statement. 18H762 which I have quoted above. He says that JFK's hair flew forward NOT FROM ANY BULLET IMPACT WITH THE HEAD BUT FROM THE BULLET JUST MISSING THE HEAD. You can see JFK's hair fly up and forward from z273-276. We know that Hickey was not looking forward at z256 because we see him facing to the rear in Altgens' photo. So we know that the last two shots were after z256.

Quote
WILLIAM R. GREER'S REPORT ON
DALLAS, TEXAS

......A short distance ahead, the street passed under a railroad or expressway. A building stood on the right side of the street, that would have been the last building we would have had to pass before entering the underpass.

The President's automobile was almost past this building and I was looking at the overpass that we were about to pass under in case someone was on top of it, when I heard what I thought was the backfire of a motorcycle behind the President's automobile. After the second shot, I glanced over my right shoulder and saw Governor Connally start to fall, I knew then that something was wrong and I immediately pushed the accelerator to the floor and Mr. Kellerman said, get out of here.

Greer said he heard two shots and then he sped away. Matches Kellerman's description stating "get out of here" after the headshot. Greer accelerates after the headshot, just like the Zapruder film showed. Greer said there was two shots to that point, Kellerman said three.
He clarifies in his WC testimony (2H118):

"I knew that after I heard the second one, that is when I looked over my shoulder, and I was conscious that there was something wrong, because that is when I saw Governor Connally. And when I turned around again to the best of my recollection there was another one, right immediately after. "

He described two turns to look rearward. These turns are seen in the zfilm. The first turn, which he said was just after the second shot, occurs at z278-80. At 2H119 he was asked to clarify the timing of this turn relative to the second shot and he said it was "almost simultaneously". The second turn was just before the third shot. That occurs at around z305.

Quote
I don't see it, point out where Betzner states there is a third shot.
He does not identify a third shot expressly. He said that there were "at least two shots". Saying "at least two shots" indicates that he was not counting the number of shots.  So you cannot use Betzner's statement as evidence that there were only two shots.

Quote
No, Skelton, Miller, and Walters identify every shot. They are specific as to where the shots landed. They leave two shots hitting the occupants of the car.
I am not sure what you are reading.

Miller says he heard 3 shots. Then he says "a man in the back seat slumped over". Then he says "one shot apparently hit the street past the car" but does not identify which shot that was.

Skelton describes 4 shots.  On the first shot he said something hit the pavement to the left rear of the car. Then he said he heard two more shots and saw a woman in the car grab a man.  Then he said he heard another shot and saw the bullet hit the pavement.

I don't see where Walters describes the effects of any of the shots. He described a "first retort" and then "2 succeeding retorts".

« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 02:07:52 PM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #267 on: May 18, 2018, 01:59:02 PM »


Offline Ray Mitcham

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #268 on: May 18, 2018, 02:07:22 PM »
Landis report.

At approximately this point, I would say, the President's car and the Follow-up car had just completed their turns and both were straightening out.

At this moment I heard what sounded like the report of a high-powered rifle (Shot 1)from behind me, over my right shoulder. When I heard the sound there was no question in my mind what it was. My first glance was at the President, as I was practically looking in his direction anyway. I saw him moving in a manner which I thought was to look in the direction of the sound. I did not realize that President Kennedy had been shot at this point.

I immediately returned my gaze, over my right shoulder, toward the modernistic building I had observed before. With a quick glance I saw nothing and immediately started scanning the crowd at the intersection from my right to my left. I observed nothing unusual and began to think that the sound had been that of a fire cracker but I hadn't seen any smoke. In fact, I recall Special Agent Jack Ready saying, "What was it? A Fire Cracker?" I remarked, "I don't know; I don't see any smoke.'' So far the lapsed period of time could not have been over two or three seconds.

All during this time I continued to scan the crowd, returning my gaze towards the President's car. It must have been another second or two before the next shot was fired (Shot 2)because, as I recall having seen nothing out of the ordinary, I then thought that maybe one of the cars in the motorcade had had a blowout that had echoed off the buildings. I looked at the right front tire of the President's car and saw it was all right. I then glanced to see the right rear tire, but could not because the Follow-up car was too close.

I also thought of trying to run and jump on the President's car but did not think I could make it because of the speed at which we were traveling. I decided I had better stay where I was so that I would at least be near the First Lady, to whom I am assigned. I think that it was at this point that I thought, ''Faster, Faster, Faster," thinking that we could not get out of the area soon enough. However, I don't have any idea as to how fast we were then moving.

I had drawn my gun, but I am not sure exactly when I did this. I did leave my suit coat unbuttoned all during the motorcade movement, thinking at the time that I could get to my gun faster this way, if I had to.

I glanced towards the President and he still appeared to be fairly upright in his seat, leaning slightly toward Mrs. Kennedy with his head tilted slightly back. I think Mrs. Kennedy had her right arm around the President's shoulders at this time. I also remember Special Agent Clinton Hill attempting to climb onto the back of the President's car.
It was at this moment that I heard a second report(Shot 3) and it appeared that the President's head split open with a muffled exploding sound. I can best describe the sound as I heard it, as the sound you would get by shooting a high powered bullet into a five gallon can of water or shooting into a melon. I saw pieces of flesh and blood flying through the air and the President slumped out of sight towards Mrs. Kennedy.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 02:10:02 PM by Ray Mitcham »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #269 on: May 18, 2018, 05:49:04 PM »
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Kellerman states the car accelerated after the second shot and before the third shot. The car is seen to accelerate after the head shot and there were not another shot after the head shot.

How do you know there wasn't another shot after the head shot?

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Re: Autopsy proves SBT impossible
« Reply #269 on: May 18, 2018, 05:49:04 PM »